Serial loop Vs. Parallel loop

toolmaker_03

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a detailed parts list, of the two water loops used in this test setup.
2 MCR320-QP 360mm radiators
http://www.swiftech.com/MCRx20-QP.aspx
2 EVGA GeForce GTX 580 FTW Hydro Copper 2
https://www.evga.com/articles/00592/
1 XSPC raystorm CPU block
http://www.xs-pc.com/waterblocks-cpu/raystorm-cpu-water...
1 swiftech MPC655 pump
http://www.swiftech.com/mcp655.aspx
6 corsair SP fans
http://www.corsair.com/en-us/air-series-sp120-high-perf...
6 bits power 3 way 90's
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/12084/ex-tub-744/Bits...
1 Y block
http://bitspowerwork.com/html/product/pro_show.php?prod...
1 250mm reservoir
http://bitspowerwork.com/html/product/pro_show.php?prod...
8 3/8ID 1/2OD compression fittings
http://bitspowerwork.com/html/product/pro_show.php?prod...
2 T's
http://www.xs-pc.com/hose-fittings/g14-t-fitting-black-...
5 male to male fittings of varying length
http://www.xs-pc.com/hose-fittings/g14-5mm-male-to-male...
4 female to female fittings of varying length
http://www.xs-pc.com/hose-fittings/g14-18mm-female-to-f...
2 koolance flow meters with display
http://koolance.com/ins-fm19-coolant-flow-meter
http://koolance.com/dcb-fm01-flow-meter-adapter-with-di...
1 loop filter
http://koolance.com/ins-fltr03-inline-coolant-filter
2 temp sensors
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/10373/ex-tub-620/Bits...
1 alphacool bubble down
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/17333/ex-tub-1558/Alphacool_Bubble_Down_G14_Thread_Reservoir_Flow_Regulator_-_Deep_Black.html?tl=g30c97s169
1 bitspower aqua pipe
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/11863/ex-tub-713/Bitspower_G_14_Silver_Shining_Aqua-Pipe_I_BP-WTP-C17.html?tl=g30c97s169

This system is overclocked, on both the serial and parallel test setups.
CPU overclock @ 4Ghz
GPU1 overclock @ 850Mhz
GPU2 overclock @ 850Mhz
Memory overclock @ 1600Mhz
CPU stock @ 3.2Ghz
GPU1 stock @ 772Mhz
GPU2 stock @ 772Mhz
Memory stock @ 1333Mhz
this is the serial loop setup and what it looks like, and here are the hardware temps at idol, ambient temp of the room is at 28.6C
CPU 43C
GPU1 37C
GPU2 37C
the water temps at idol are
29C-30C
the hardware temps at load are
CPU 61C
GPU1 51C
GPU2 51C
the water temps at load are
37C-38C
the delta t of the system at load is 10C
http://imgur.com/Gi4wFZO,G1Mte0g,Pb8ot4j,k8LlLK5
Gi4wFZO.jpg

G1Mte0g.jpg

this is the parallel loop setup and what it looks like, and here are the hardware temps at idol, ambient temp of the room is at 28.6C
CPU 43C
GPU1 35C
GPU2 35C
the water temps at idol are
29C-30C
the hardware temps at load are
CPU 57C
GPU1 46C
GPU2 46C
the water temps at load are
34C-35C
the delta t of the system at load is 7C
http://imgur.com/pBZY5ne,yIT8rwA,CgNlfyH
yIT8rwA.jpg

pBZY5ne.jpg

this is the difference between the hardware used on the serial loop, and the hardware that needed to be added to the parallel loop.

http://imgur.com/U3yYYJl
U3yYYJl.jpg








 

rubix_1011

Contributing Writer
Moderator
What happens to your flowrate if you remove that inline filter? You shouldn't ever need to run something like that in a loop, plus it looks like it's very restrictive.

The links on your hardware are broken. You need to use the[*url] and [/*url] tags for links (remove the *).

Can you show a diagram of the loop order?

[Edit] when I zoom in on your photo of the loop, it shows your GPUs in serial.

Looks like you're seeing firsthand how restrictive full cover GPU blocks in serial vs. parallel can be.
 

toolmaker_03

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the inline filter does nothing to restrict the loops, because it has a flow rate of 8.9LPM, with is above the flow rates of either loop.

On the serial loop the flow rate is 2.4LPM, and on the parallel loop the flow rate is 6.8LPM, the inline filter is present on both loops.

if I removed the inline filter, the flow rates would not change on either loop because of this.
 

rubix_1011

Contributing Writer
Moderator
That is definitely one of the more interesting parallel loops I've seen; not very common.

Interesting that you run the CPU in parallel with the GPUs rather than the CPU in serial, then parallel the GPUs and serial the radiators. Radiators are usually low pressure drop and like higher flow. Also, the MCR series is pretty low restriction compared to other rads, so running them in series isn't very detrimental. I ran 2x in series for several years; still have them.

Also wondering what difference would be if you left GPUs and CPU as-is and ran the radiators in serial, like first loop. Thinking the difference would be negligible - your restriction is your blocks.
 

toolmaker_03

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well if I connected the radiators in series, I would limit the potential flow rate of the loop, to that of the potential flow rate of the radiators, placed in series with each other.

there are a lot of examples of different water loops out there, where they paralleled the GPU's, than connected them to a set of radiators in series with each other, by doing this the loop is limited to the serial configuration of the radiators being used.

to me, if I am going to parallel a system, It does not seem right, to only do half of it.


 

toolmaker_03

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this is a loop with a single radiator on it, it shows that the loop flow rate is at 5.9LPM, to me, that would be the max LPM of my parallel loop setup, if I connected a serial radiator to it.
http://imgur.com/Xw2ZusJ,hlrk6LC,S4doxpc
S4doxpc.jpg

Xw2ZusJ.jpg

as i add more radiators to a serial loop setup, the total flow rate of the loop goes down.
http://imgur.com/dfL14N3,qPOcJh4,j8h9U5u
dfL14N3.jpg

qPOcJh4.jpg


this shows my parallel loop is running at 6.8LPM, the reason for this in my opinion, is because I did not limit the loop potential flow rate, to that of the serial radiator set up.
http://imgur.com/Z3K20dC,5qWciR9,N6OnDs1#0
Z3K20dC.jpg


 

rubix_1011

Contributing Writer
Moderator
So, you are saying the entire loop is running faster in that parallel setup than in the single rad in that test loop?

That wouldn't make sense - 1 single radiator has less restriction and pressure drop than your entire loop and components being run in it, even in parallel.
 

toolmaker_03

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ok, so here is the example I have of what happens to my parallel configuration on the blocks if I connected it to a serial configuration of the radiators.
ZqmisiL.jpg

P22stU0.jpg

http://imgur.com/P22stU0,ZqmisiL,ncLvvPQ#0
my full parallel configuration can run at much grater flow rate, than what the serial radiators will limit the loop too.

http://imgur.com/H1PXQZa,neOHoxO,wxKe8wq,6kmM27g,1Z6Gpdm
H1PXQZa.jpg

wxKe8wq.jpg


it is my opinion, that with a parallel loop you can add the flow rates of each component on the water loop, to achieve a total possible flow rate of the water loop.

it is also my opinion that in the serial loop setup, the total possible flow rate of the water loop, is limited to the max flow rate, of the most restrictive component in that water loop.

in my serial loop, the most restrictive component is the GPU block at 3.4LPM.

http://imgur.com/MOYTv6t,yXrwjmn,no3mq1w
no3mq1w.jpg

MOYTv6t.jpg


Edit: therefore it is my opinion, that the flow rate of my serial loop will be limited to a 3.4LPM maximum potential flow rate for the water loop.



 

rubix_1011

Contributing Writer
Moderator
You're still bound in a parallel loop by the most restrictive point, though, although those are fewer in nature due to the dual paths being configured.

And yes, GPU blocks are typically fairly restrictive, which is why those SLI/X-Fire bridges exist to parallel. Full cover blocks are also more restrictive (by nature) than universal blocks, so you can get away with serial Uni blocks more than you can with serial FC blocks.

Can you imagine how restrictive RAM and other MB blocks are now based on your testing? :)
 

toolmaker_03

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there are a few restrictions inside my memory blocks and MOBO blocks, but they have a fairly open design, so it is even less than a GPU or CPU.

here are the numbers, on how I calculate my potential flow rates through my parallel setup.
radiator = 5.9LPM 5.9 + 5.9 = 11.8LPM is the total flow rate possible on this parallel configuration
radiator = 5.9LPM

CPU = 4.6LPM 4.6 + 3.4 + 3.4 = 11.4LPM is the total flow rate possible on this parallel configuration
GPU = 3.4LPM
GPU = 3.4LPM

I achieved 10.5LPM on that parallel setup, so that is .9LPM less than the total flow rate possible.

RAD = 5.9LPM in a serial configuration 3.4LPM is the total flow rate possible on a serial configuration.
CPU = 4.6LPM in a serial configuration
GPU = 3.4LPM in a serial configuration

on the serial loop I achieved 2.4LPM, and that is 1LPM less than the total flow rate possible.
 

toolmaker_03

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I have a koolance MOBO block, it is a open design.

I also have the corsair dominator GT memory blocks, they too have a fairly open design, and they are a little more restrictive than my radiators are, but it is still less than what my CPU or GPU blocks show.

http://imgur.com/po98MBG
po98MBG.jpg


I cant say anything about other types of blocks, I don't have them to know.
 

toolmaker_03

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the final build will have one radiator mounted on the top of the case, kind of like this.
https://imageshack.com/i/120plbJ
and one radiator mounted off the back of the case, kind of like this.
https://imageshack.com/i/f5pjopj
in a full parallel setup, kind of like this.
http://imgur.com/H1PXQZa,neOHoxO,wxKe8wq,6kmM27g,1Z6Gpdm
I want to see if the extra pump, and increased flow rate, will help, or hinder the parallel loop, with one pump the parallel loop runs at 6.8LPM,
http://imgur.com/uElbcxQ,Ir22WaC,rMsjSDu,yQZeo5t,ijliSzM,HoXHIMM
with two pumps the loop will run at 10.5LPM, the pumps are adjustable, so if it is too fast, I can still slow the pumps down, by changing the pump speed from 5 to 1, I don't really know how much of a difference that is, since I have always run my pumps on 5.
 

toolmaker_03

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ok, I built the full parallel loop with two pumps, and in my opinion it is a little better. the total flow rate of the system after install is 9.6LPM.
VSuO0x0.jpg



0xXuEtI.jpg

ambient air temp of the room is at 28.6
idle temps of the hardware are
CPU - 41C
GPU 1 - 33C
GPU 2 - 33C

the water temps at idle are
29-30C
the load temps of the hardware are
CPU - 54C
GPU 1 - 45C
GPU 2 - 45C

the water temps at load are
33-34C
the delta t of the system at load is 4C
Link to Gallery

 

toolmaker_03

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ok so this is my theory on how I lowered the delta t of my system with each new configuration of my water loop.
first thing is that, I did need to have enough radiator space to remove most of the heat being generated, by the components on the water loop.
than it is my opinion that the delta t of my water loop could be directly related to the flow rate through the radiators on my system.

this is how I came to that opinion.
on my serial loop setup with one pump, and a lower flow rate through the radiators of 1.2LPM it will have a delta t of 13C
on my serial loop test setup with one pump, the total flow rate through the radiators was 2.4LPM and I had a delta t of 10C
on my parallel loop test setup with one pump, the total flow rate was 6.8LPM so half that is 3.4LPM and that is the flow rate through one of the radiators on that loop and I had a delta t of 7C
on my parallel loop final build with two pumps, the total flow rate was 9.6LPM so half that is 4.8LPM and that is the flow rate through one of the radiators on that loop and I had a delta t of 4C
well that is my theory anyway, it seems to work.

so for some practical application of this theory it seems that for about every 1LPM increase of flow rate through the radiators, the delta t of the loop goes down by 3C.
I would like to test this theory further by seeing if a flow rate of 5.8LPM through one of the radiators will continue to lower the delta t of my loop by 3C if so, it would bring the total delta t of my water loop down to 1C :lol: I don't think that is going to happen, but I would still like to see what does happen to the delta t of my system at the 5.8LPM flow rate through one of the radiators.
 


I see the point you are attempting to make series vs parallel, but I don't see the additional expense to the water cooling being a necessary need.

We have enough problems at Toms just getting users to read the stickies and help themselves,
can't you see that you are so over complicating the issue to the point you'll literally scare some completely away from water cooling?

I have a killer below ambient water cooling system, but I do not stick it in every ones face with links in every thread I enter,
because it is specialized cooling and if anyone is interested they usually are searching for peltier cooling information,
and then if they're searching for that type of information I'll link to it.

Only rich people with more money than sense IMO, would even run a 4 way SLI, those of us that would avoid a setup like that is not because of the cooling,
but because even today after all this time of SLI or Crossfire setups even 2 way, there are driver bugs and issues and some games do not run SLI smooth at all.

Just when you think all the SLI issues are resolved new drivers come out with new problems it is a never ending cycle,
I bought my GTX Titan to get away from SLI bugs running my 2 580GTX, the same cards you have,
some SLI issues I didn't even realize were happening until they disappeared with the single card.

So I understand you are attempting to prove a point about your parallel vs series and flow rate,
but try to understand the more you complicate the issue the more that would be interested you loose.

Additionally when you post your pictures, please clean up those nasty radiators.

Now to the reason I quoted your sketch:

First of all I would never do what you're proposing in your sketch,
It takes a high dollar motherboard to run 4 way SLI, 4 GPU water blocks at a minimum of 100 bucks each and the 4 GPUs as well,
I do not think it is worth it but it is your money.

Iooking at your sketch what if you have a partial blockage in one of the GPUs?

I know you think your inline screens will trap any problems but what if the problem is after the screen when you start up the loop?

It's not like you live in a sterile dust free environment your radiators prove that?

Instead of the center radiator splitting the return to both reservoirs, why not just make one large reservoir?

Why have the CPU at the end of the parallel loop, to me it makes more sense to have it at the beginning?

Because the CPU is not in parallel it is in series because you cannot run a 2 port (Inlet/Outlet), CPU in true parallel.

You may pull it off with Swiftechs 4 port water block?, but not the traditional flow CPU water block.

But that may cool even worse!

Though series vs parallel alone even with a simple setup, is an ongoing argument of whether the cooling performance rewards outweigh the expense,
keeping in mind your setup should be all about performance because it is not about looks and convenience.

And with my setup having an additional case housing all the cooling, neither is mine!

But please don't scare away our first time water coolers over complicating the issue!

http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-2786480/good-water-cooling-parts.html

It would be best if you only post your links when someone is curious regarding series parallel,
the same as I only post mine when someone is inquiring regarding peltier cooling.

Thanks for reading TM_03!

Ryan



 

toolmaker_03

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well, I do have several issues with what you have stated here.
first off, it is not over complicating the issue, its the best answer for achieving the greatest amount of cooling ability, for anyone that is considering running a SLI/crossfire setup.
the truth, is that every SLI/crossfire setup that I have seen, runs hot, weather in a serial setup, or the more common serial/parallel hybrid setup.
the full parallel or paralleling the radiators and components is the only answer that actually works, I have literally tried every other possible configuration.
a full parallel setup, will give the user the needed flow rate to cool there hardware.
it really is that simple.
I am sorry you are unable to see that.
this simple fact remains, I have a 4C delta t on this system, and there is no other configuration of this hardware, that can do that.
if you would like, I can go through all of the water cooling threads here at toms, and pull out all the different times that some one was unable to get there SLI/crossfire setup to run cool?
maybe that is what is needed, for you to understand that this is not a small issue, but a rather large one, or do you already know that?
I do agree with you on one part, most of them do end up removing the SLI/crossfire setup, rather than fixing the heat issue that they where having.
now people do not have to remove there video cards, or go buy a new one, I have a answer for them that really works.
 

toolmaker_03

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well I guess what I am trying to show, is that just because you have enough hardware to cool the components, it does not mean that you will automatically get good results, if the system in not configured correctly, and flowing fast enough through the radiators to remove as much heat as possible. one might not get any better results than that of a good air cooling system.

for example, I did not show the serial loop with no soft 90 degree fittings and one pump, as that would not have been a fair comparison, but all the same hardware was used minus the soft 90 degree fittings used in the test setups, but the serial setup with no soft 90 degree fittings only ran at 1.2LPM.
room temp 28.6C
CPU load temp 70C
GPU1 load temp 60C
GPU2 load temp 61C
water load temp 42C
delta t of the system at load is 13C

this IMO is not any better than what you would get on good air cooling.
its not the hardware that changed how efficient the system can perform, but how I configured and connected that hardware to each other, and with each new configuration change, the delta t of the system goes down.

I know you guys have been saying that it does not matter what order the hardware is in, and on a serial loop that is mostly correct, but just adding fittings to the system, can increase the flow rate of the system, thus lowering the delta t of that system.

the faster the water flows through the radiators, the lower the delta t of the system can be, assuming that there is enough radiator space to remove the heat being generated in the first place.

so how do I show this on a graph that others can understand?
I am stupid about this kind of stuff.

http://imgur.com/wbPXaK1,EsTtsLQ,KA0KFFu
EsTtsLQ.jpg

KA0KFFu.jpg


and yes, I did hook this configuration up to the system, just to see how well it would preform.
 

rubix_1011

Contributing Writer
Moderator
Any time you add anything to a loop, you introduce restriction: inches of tubing, fittings, radiators, blocks, etc. You aren't decreasing restriction by adding these, so I don't know how you can say this is possible. Any time water turbulence within the tubing diameter flows back into itself, it causes turbulence, which causes restriction. This means for each inch of tubing, you cause this or each time tubing intersects with a fitting, the lip of the fitting causes turbulence.