Do I need UPS or Surge Protector? I am confused.

infernape

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Hi, I have a desktop PC and whenever voltage go down my computer restart. So usually I keep inverter ups on but the problem with it is that all my home applicant take power from inverter and when voltage go down my inverter stop charging and start giving power to the all applicant connected with it and its draw inverter battery. The voltage change is not problem for other applicant except my computer. So I am thinking to buying dedicated UPS for my computer but they are very costly and not sure how they work.

My Questions :
Q.1 If i buy dedicated UPS then when voltage go down then will UPS stop charging and only give power to my computer or it will keep charging in low voltage and also keep giving my computer constant supply of electricity?

I do not need backup since I have inverter for backup. I only need a constant power supply for my PC in low voltage and protection from high voltage so my pc do not restart or damage from high voltage. I do not know if UPS is the only option or a surge protector would work here.

Q.2 Do surge protector also increase the voltage when voltage go down or it only protect from high voltage?
Q.3 Do surge protector work as UPS to keep constant power supply while electricity switching from main to inverter?

Thank You
 
Solution


Which one? Many completely different devices are all called surge protectors. Profits for some (ie Monster) are obscenely massive because so many recommend them without bothering to learn what they do.

For example, for RVs, the surge protector is for a low voltage or reversed polarity. How does that harm a computer? It doesn't. But it is called a surge protector. Therefore it must do surge protection? Hardly.

Ineffective protectors (with near zero protection numbers) claim to magically block or absorb surges. View their numbers. A destructive surge can be hundreds of thousands of joules. How many joules does an APC, Belkin, Monster, or Panamax protector claim to...

westom

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Two different devices that do two completely different functions. First your problem. Voltage can drop so low that incandescent bulbs dim to 40% intensity. Every properly constructed computer must still work just fine even when voltage drops that low. Furthermore, if voltage is that low, then all motorized appliances are at serious risk.

If your lights are dimming that much (or at all), then a household wiring problem probably exists. Fix the problem. Never cure symptoms (ie with a UPS). In most cases, the problem is trivial. In some rare cases, that dimming bulb indicates a major human safety issue. Just a second reason why informed layman fix problems - do not cure symptoms.

Second, a surge protector is for a high and short current transient. If anythnig tries to stop that current, then voltage increases as high as necessary so that current will still flow. Protectors adjacent to appliances can only block or absorb that energy. Then, always view spec numbers. A destructive surge can be hundreds of thousands of joules. How many joules does that protector claim to absorb? Hundreds? Thousand? Where is the protection? Near zero protection is easily sold to and recommended by a majority who just know by always ignoring numbers.

As noted previously, a computer's PSU should make the inverter and UPS unnecessary for all but total blackouts. UPS is only temporary and 'dirty' power so that unsaved data can be saved. It does nothing to protect hardware - does not even claim to.

That inverter (sounds like it) is only doing what a UPS already does better. Again, that should be obvious by learning what each does AND by always including specification numbers.



 
If I added up the cost of harddrives that seemed to got bit by house hold power issues /lighting / Surges - may of well paid for a nice upc ??

I assume it depends how common these things occur in your area and how much you replace due to them things ??

as kinda said above for me its harddrive damage. data lost- causes bad block issues so on ---

I guess I have to replace 2 $100 hard drives is close to a ups cost ??
 

westom

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No disk drive should be damaged by AC power problems. First because informed homeowners earth a properly installed 'whole house' protector to make even direct lightning strikes irrelevant (for about $1 per protected appliane).

Two, additional protection routinely in all properly designed power supplies further makes that damage impossible.

And three - all disk drives never know about power off until voltages start dropping to zero. Nothing in a computer (even long before PCs existed) warns a disk drive of power off. A disk drive first learns of a power off (normal shutdown or statewide blackout) when DC voltages drop. Then that disk drive simply protects itself.

Most only assume a disk drive was damaged by bad power rather than learn why damage occurred. Meanwhile power provided by any PSU that meets ATX standards is more than sufficient for any disk drive and provides robust protection from most AC mains anomalies - as even required by ATX standards.

Even bad block issues have long been made irrelevant by standards that existed 25 years ago. Bad blocks only happen when the filesystem technology is that obsolete.


 

infernape

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I was have Corsair GS600 PSU and it stopped working after i hear a short circuit sound and a little smoke blew from it. I assume it may be because of electricity fluctuation. About dimming electricity, its not so dime but if i have turnned on inverter UPS mode then inverter stop charging and start giving electricity from it. When i was have GS600 PSU I did not need to care about light dimming or light switching while from main to inverter but after it get damaged now i do not want to lost my Corsair CS650M PSU the same way.
I did not like the UPS because its so costly. I think Corsair CS650M PSU is considered good. Is it?
So, All i need is a surge protector? Am i right?

Sorry for asking again, Will surge protector also increase the voltage when it go down? And is surge protector is also know as voltage stabilizer ?
Can you recommend me good brand for surge protector and any tips while buying one my PC.
 
'' after i hear a short circuit sound and a little smoke blew from it''

well I don't know how I could trust that after seeing that happen ???

usp just to get things shut down safely - protectors just prevent the surge from going past it - never 100% fail safe and still can fail to prevent [seem there was a test review here at toms on this and what worked well and what did not ?? ]

something like from here ??

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/power-supply-protection-calculate-consumption,3066-9.html

http://www.tomshardware.com/picturestory/675-cheap-power-strip-tear-down.html

http://www.tomshardware.com/picturestory/676-cheap-power-surge-protector.html


its all about reading up and deciding whats best for your needs and price/cost ??
 

westom

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Which one? Many completely different devices are all called surge protectors. Profits for some (ie Monster) are obscenely massive because so many recommend them without bothering to learn what they do.

For example, for RVs, the surge protector is for a low voltage or reversed polarity. How does that harm a computer? It doesn't. But it is called a surge protector. Therefore it must do surge protection? Hardly.

Ineffective protectors (with near zero protection numbers) claim to magically block or absorb surges. View their numbers. A destructive surge can be hundreds of thousands of joules. How many joules does an APC, Belkin, Monster, or Panamax protector claim to absorb? Hundfreds? Thousand? BTW, why does a maybe $10 protector from Walmart have similar numbers? Those other manufacturer know many if not most will recommend near zero protector by completely ignoring specification numbers. Sometimes foolishly believe a more expensive protector must be better. And yes, another here has previosly become angry when these facts with numbers were posted.

Companies with integrity sell a completely different device called a surge protector. This is the only solution found in all facilities that cannot have damage - even from direct lightning strikes. This superior solution costs about $1 per protected appliance. Provided by Siemens, Polyphaser (an industry benchmark), GE, Leviton, Ditek, Keison, Clipsal, Interamtic, Square D, Syscom, Novarix, and ABB to name but a few. A Cutler-Hammer solution is sold in Lowes and Home Depot because even informed layman can install it.

Again, protection is always about where hundreds of thousands of joules are harmlessly absorbed. So effective protectors connect low impedance (ie 'less than 3 meter') to what actually doss protection - single point earth ground. Those near zero protectors also have no dedicated wire for the always essential aerth ground. And will not discuss it.

How does a 2 cm part in those plug-in protectors stop what even three kilometers of sky could not? That is what some others here have claimed.

Some effective protection systems have no protector. But every protection system always has the only item that defines each layer of protection - earth ground. Where do hundreds f thousands of joules harmlessly dissipate? Only valid recommendations answer that question.

Best protection means a surge current is not anywhere inside the building. Because if anything needs protection, then everything needs protection. If a surge is inside, then that current goes hunting for earth destructively via appliances. Nothing (no matter how many others make this claim) nothing will stop a destructive surge current. Anything that tries means a surge voltage increases as necessary to blow through that blocking device (ie a 2 centimeter part).

More numbers. A direct lightning strike far down the street is a direct strike incoming to every appliance. Lightning is maybe 20,000 amps. So a minimal 'whole house' protector is 50,000 amps. Because effective protectors protect from all types of surges - including direct lightning strikes. And do not fail after many direct lightning strikes.

Grossly undersized protectors (with too few joules) fail. That gets the naive to recommend on a myth of "My protector sacrificed itself to save my computer." Total nonsense. If a surge current is incoming to a protector, then at the same time, that current is also outgoing from that protector into adjacent appliances. Never forget how electricity works.

Appliances (especially electronics) already contain protection that is often superior to what grossly undersized protectors claim. A surge too tiny to overwhelm that existing internal protection can also destroy an ineffective, undersized, and adjacent plug-in protector. Then naive consumers recommend that near zero power strip - that can only absorb how many joules? Never ignore these numbers.

So that protection inside all appliances (dishwasher, furnace, air conditioner, dimmer switches, GFCI, clocks, TV, etc) is not overwhelmed, then informed consumers earth a 'whole house' protector - ie from those companies of integrity.

A\gain, nothing stops or blocks a surge. Nothing. Best protection for cable TV is a hardwire connected low impedance (ie less than 3 meters) to single point earth ground. Other incoming wires (ie telephone, AC electric) cannot connect directly to earth. So a 'whole house' protector does what that hardwire does better - connect hundreds of thousands of joules harmlessly to earth ground.

Protection is always about where hundreds of thousands of joules are harmlessly absorbed. Always.

Bottom line: a protector is only as effective as its earth ground. Protectors without that dedicated connection to earth do not even claim to protect from destructive surges. Only claim to protect from surges already made irrelevant by what is already inside appliances.

Protection is always about where hundreds of thousands of joules harmlessly dissipate. That is the only solution always found in every facility that cannot have damage. And typically costs a residential homeowner about $1 per protected appliance.

I have been doing this stuff for too many decades. Am not manipulated by advertising myths and hearsay. This proven 'whole house' solution means damage happens when the installer makes a mistake.

You telco's CO will suffer about 100 surges with each thunderstorm. How often is your town without phone service for four days while they recplace that $multi-million switching computer? Never? Because they also properly earth 'whole house' protection. It is that well proven for over 100 years.
 
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westom

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> A good UPS should already have AVR.

That is what a power supply does. All electronics should be perfectly happy even when incadsscent bulbs dim to 40% intensity - due to what a PSU must already do. Portable electronics are even more robust - perfectly happy on any voltage from 85 to 265 volts. Why would anyone need a magic box to what what is already done inside all electronics?
 

infernape

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@westom your answer is high level for my tiny mind. I have to read it few more times to understand it better. In mean time what do you think what I need or Do i really need anything? I only want to protect from my computer from damage and unplanned shut down.
I have Corsair CS650M PSU. In case of complete power drop i have inverter to power my computer and when i use good quality PSU i do not need to turn on inverter UPS and my computer keep running in case of electricity switching process between main to inverter as i saw when i was using Corsiar GS600. Now currently i have 2 PSU one is local cost less than $10 and one is Corsair CS650M. Currently i am using local one and every time electricity switch from main to inverter and dim my computer shut down.
I did not install CS650M because i did not want to damage it by dim light. But now i think CS650M would work fine in dim light. So i need nothing neither the surge and nor the UPS.

PS : I am not native engish speaker. I am having a little more time understanding it.
 

infernape

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So its mean my Corsair PSU already have AVR function and i don't need surge protector and UPS.
 

westom

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It was this simple even 100 years ago. Best protection at an appliance is already inside the appliance. Destructive surges must connect earth BEFORE entering a building. Then protection inside all appliances is not overwhelmed. That previous post only said same repeatedly. Its is not that hard.

An answer to this question makes it obvious. Where do hundreds of thousands of joules harmlessly dissipate? Never ignore numbers. A protector is only as effective as its earth ground - also stated repeatedly.
 

westom

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> So its mean my Corsair PSU already have AVR function and i don't need surge protector and UPS.

Corsair only provides perfectly good DC voltages when incandescent bulbs remain above 40% intensity. How often do your bulbs dim that much? Not a rhetorical question.

Surge protectors do absolutely nothing for low voltage. UPS is for when voltage drops lower - so that unsaved data can be saved. Low voltage and blackouts do not harm hardware - only threaten unsaved data.
 


The PSU does not regulate the AC input voltage. It only regulates the DC output voltages.
 

infernape

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does it mean higher voltage coming from ac main can harm my PSU?
You said PSU only regulates output so my computer component is safe but not PSU.

One thing between main ac power and my computer there is inverter so when light go dim inverter take control over output so in case of higer voltage from behind will inverter cut off input from main and control output also?
 

infernape

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does it mean higher voltage coming from ac main can harm my PSU?
You said PSU only regulates output so my computer component is safe but not PSU.

One thing between main ac power and my computer there is inverter so when light go dim inverter take control over output so in case of higer voltage from behind will inverter cut off input from main and control output also?
 
If the PSU is plugged directly into the AC wall outlet then there is no protection from voltage variations and spikes on the AC power grid. Your Corsair CS650M doesn't have a MOV (Metal Oxide Varistor), the small sacrificial component that protects PSUs from surges off the mains grid.

Your term "inverter" is most likely referring to a Line-Interactive Uninterruptible Power Supply (UPS) that has a battery backup mode to provide power during a power interruption event.

Any decent UPS will have AVR capability. If you're on a 230VAC power grid then your UPS' AVR should boost its AC output voltage to 230V on its output receptacles if the AC mains voltage sags/drops below 160VAC (exact voltage level may depend on brand and model of the UPS).

When the AC mains voltage rises above 280VAC (exact voltage level may depend on brand and model of the UPS) the UPS' AVR circuit should shed/reduce/buck the AC input voltage down to 230VAC on its output receptacles (i.e. for the devices plugged into your UPS like the PC, monitor, modem, router, ..., etc.). On some UPS' the lower and upper voltage levels are adjustable through software or through the UPS' control panel.

AVR is not surge protection.
 

westom

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Only voltages that matter are DC voltages. PSU must take in all AC voltage variations and still output the exact same DC voltages. PSU's job is to make all AC voltage variations irrelevant and to protect even from surges when plugged directly into an AC receptacle. AVR is performed by every PSU.

An external voltage regulator (ie inverter) is only for blackouts - no voltage. Only AC variation that a PSU does not make irrelevant is a blackout. A PSUs is required to do that - make AC voltaeg variations irrelevant..

If an air conditioner causes an incandescent bulb to dim to 40% intensity, then get a serious house wiring problem fixed. That dimming might be due to a serious human safety issue.