Non sine wave ups compatible with Seasonic X series?

tech_fanatic · Oct 20, 2015

I know this question has been asked a lot around the web but need to find a definitive answer from the ones who have actually used a non sine wave ups with an Active PF Correction PSU or atleast tried to.
I have a microtek ups(you may call it a generic one) which outputs a step approximated sine wave.
Please I don't to want to buy a new UPS but really need a good quality psu to power my r9 280x for some time to come(5+ years).
I am from India and would also really like to get an answer from my compatriots who have used a Seasonic PSU with a generic UPS and if it worked for them.
Practical experiences count more than theoretical explanations.

ko888 · Oct 20, 2015

When X-bit labs was still active their power supply reviews tested UPS compatibility with an APC SmartUPS SC 620 (620VA 390 Watts) that outputs a stepped approximation to a sine wave.

See their Seasonic X-650 UPS Compatibility result here:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cases/display/seasonic-ss-psus_2.html

UPS Compatibility
Working together with our APC SmartUPS SC 620, the X-650 was stable at loads up to 412 watts when powered by the mains but could only switch to the UPS’s batteries at loads up to 302 watts. The numbers for the X-850 are 403 and 300 watts, respectively.

The waveform on battery backup mode, during high power draw, will become too distorted and the PSU's APFC circuit will be unable to deal with it.

A higher capacity stepped sine wave UPS (i.e. 1300VA) would probably handle a higher power draw without any problem.

tech_fanatic · Oct 21, 2015

ko888 :

I thought APC's SmartUPS were sine wave models,aren't they?
And if not so that's one heck of a reason to buy a Seasonic X series, not that I have one but even without it its worth a try,don't you think so?.And also how much of a factor do you think hold-up times play in determining the compatibility between the two?

tech_fanatic · Oct 21, 2015

This is what the Seasonic Support said:
"Dear customer,

Thank you for contacting Sea Sonic Technical Support team.

Here is the UPS usage suggestion and please take it for reference.

1. Pure Sine Wave UPS, suggest not to use Modified Sine Wave (Not stepped square wave).

2. ON-LINE design is better solution without switching time.

3. If you use OFF-LINE, please notice that the switching time is less 5mS and instantaneous output power is triple than rated power or CF>3(CF=Current Factor)."
What did they mean by "please take it for reference"?Does it mean it's a requisite that one must fulfill those conditions in order to be using their PSU conflict free or one can get away without meeting their reference?
Since my UPS is 8 years old(yeah EIGHT YEARS) it must be an OFFLINE one i.e. provides AC to AC when not in backup mode.

ko888 · Oct 21, 2015

APC SmartUPS SC 620VA 230V
Waveform Type: Stepped approximation to a sinewave
http://www.apc.com/products/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=SC620I&page_type=print&tab=compare

or the

APC Smart-UPS SC 620VA 120V
Waveform Type: Stepped approximation to a sinewave
http://www.apc.com/products/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=SC620&total_watts=50

CF=Current Factor <===== That's wrong. It's Crest Factor.

A typical pure sine wave UPS has an approximate crest factor capability of 3 at full load.

Typical smaller stepped-wave models have a crest factor capability of 1.6 at full load.

Seasonic will always recommend that you use a pure sine wave UPS because it will eliminate all compatibility problems.

tech_fanatic · Oct 27, 2015

Ok I have decided not to gamble big and play sensibly.Can you suggest a tier 1 or tier 2 psu with one 6+2 pcie and one 6 pcie pins under around INR 6000($100) can an ably run an r9 280x.Is the corsair RM550 good enough? Also can you confirm if it has 2x6pcie or 2x6+2 pcie.

Chayan4400 · Oct 27, 2015

tech_fanatic :

Here you go: SEASONIC S12II SERIES 620W

Later on, try to upgrade your UPS to this: APC Home UPS 850VA

It is a pure sine wave UPS, which will power your PC no problem.

ko888 · Oct 27, 2015

Chayan4400 :

Are you sure that the Seasonic S12-II 620 can run on a non-sinewave UPS when running on battery mode?

X-bit labs tested the Seasonic M12-II 620, that is just the semi-modular output cable version of the S12-II 620, and found that it would work fine while operating on the mains power from their APC stepped sine wave UPS but would refuse to operate at any power draw level when the UPS switched over to battery backup power.

If the OP doesn't mind that it doesn't work properly with a non-sinewave UPS then they can decide whether or not they want to buy it.

Chayan4400 · Oct 27, 2015

Hmmmm, that is contrary to what I found here: Click here.

Am I correct in assuming that square, stepped, modified and simulated sine waves all mean the same thing? I'm not that well versed in UPS terminology. Apologies if I have made any mistake

.

ko888 · Oct 27, 2015

Chayan4400 :

That customer's experience is with an adequately sized 1080VA 120Volt AC UPS on North American power grid. They also don't specify what the actual power draw is on the UPS.

X-bit labs tested with a lower capacity 620VA 230Volt APC UPS.

The problem arises when a UPS is unable to deliver the peak current required by the load. When the load draws more peak current than the UPS can provide the voltage waveform becomes deformed/distorted changing the crest factor below what is necessary for proper operation of the PSU. If the PSU's APFC circuit is unable to deal with the deformed/distorted voltage waveform then it will shut itself down.

The OP hasn't specified the exact Microtek UPS model that is being used.

Chayan4400 · Oct 27, 2015

ko888 :

Chayan4400 :

That customer's experience is with an adequately sized 1080VA 120Volt AC UPS on North American power grid. They also don't specify what the actual power draw is on the UPS.

X-bit labs tested with a lower capacity 620VA 230Volt APC UPS.

The problem arises when a UPS is unable to deliver the peak current required by the load. When the load draws more peak current than the UPS can provide the voltage waveform becomes deformed/distorted changing the crest factor below what is necessary for proper operation of the PSU. If the PSU's APFC circuit is unable to deal with the deformed/distorted voltage waveform then it will shut itself down.

The OP hasn't specified the exact Microtek UPS model that is being used.

Ok, glad to have that cleared up

.

tech_fanatic · Oct 28, 2015

ko888 :

Guys, have my eyes set on an Antec VP650P @ INR 4.5K.Seems a fair deal.Any ideas about it's Tier standing(my guess tier 3)?I know I have drifted a long way form Seasonic X but probably go for platinum in my next build.As for now will test it out with a budget one.
Any other recommendations.How about corsair cs550M?Seasonic S12ii 520w costs 1K more(INR of course), is it worth it and I have read people complaining about Seasonic PSUs not being compatible with approximated sine wave UPSes.

tech_fanatic · Nov 9, 2015

Update:I have purchased an antec VP650P V2 unit with Active PF Correction.
Bad News:It does not work with my generic(microtek) simulated sine wave UPS, meaning the computer does not run on UPS backup.
GOOD NEWS:It works with my home inverter/UPS which is also a NON SINE WAVE UPS and stays ON even if the power goes OFF .
Reason:My generic UPS is of very low rating probably 450VA or 550VA at max and also more than 6 years old.
Conclusion:Most modern non sine wave UPS from a reputable brand such as APC with higher capacity(1.1kva or higher)
will be able to run any PSU with Active PF Correction, but there can be rare exceptions.
I guess this is the best solution but I can't pick mine as one.ko88's answer was right too that "A higher capacity stepped sine wave UPS (i.e. 1300VA) would probably handle a higher power draw without any problem".

ddferrari · Jun 7, 2017

I know this is an old thread, but if anyone is still looking into this, my Seasonic X650 Gold works perfectly with a "simulated" (not Pure) sine wave UPS.

I bought the Cyberpower CP1500AVRLCD on Amazon.us for $130 USD and after it was fully charged for the first time, I unplugged it- simulating a power outage. It kicked in immediately with no pops, flickers or anything else, as if the power was never interrupted. There was no clicking or hum from the PSU and if I just stuck with surfing I had about 40 minutes (!) of battery life. I then fired up and ran the Deus EX MD benchmark to pull a lot more power and the battery indicator showed I had about 8 minutes at that level of consumption- more than enough time to save a game, and I have an Aorus 1080 Ti Xtreme.

My suggestion is to buy more UPS than you think you need because the higher wattage/voltage (mine is 900W/1500VA) may deal better with power supplies using Active PFC. Plus, you may want to upgrade your PSU someday and it's suggested that your UPS has higher wattage than your PSU. Your PSU will probably never reach its rated output (my system was pulling 450W with the benchmark running and all case fans maxed) but it's better to be on the safe side.

I can't speak for all Seasonic models, but with the X650 (SS-650KM Active PFC F3) it definitely works well.

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