AMD Zen Processor Questions!

Stupid Chief

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Nov 1, 2015
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Hi I'm new to the forums (my first ever post!).
so I'm think of building my first ever pc but having done some research, AMD Zen and direct x 12 caught my eyes.
answering my question will help me decide to either build my pc in Christmas or wait for AMD zen to come out. (I'm a student so I cannot really afford intel products so ill stick to AMD products)

1) I read that AMD Zen comes out in 2016, but does anyone know the month?

2) how much will zen cost? will it be good value like the AMD FX processor?

3) my friend says direct x 12 will make AMD CPUs and GPUs better than Intel or Nivida, is this true? if so how?

4) should I expect much from AMD new zen? or is it just all talk?

5) will the new Zen processors use a lot of power like the AMD FX?

6) i never overclock on a pc, so do i need to buy a good CPU cooler or just use the one that comes with the retail CPU? (non related to title topic just a newbie question)

 
Solution
1. Zen is supposed to be out around Q4 of 2016, supposedly around october/nov but it's still too early to speculate. It's not just an amd issue, intel hit snags that caused broadwell serious delays as well. If amd hits similar snags, it could be longer. Rumors say global foundaries are having issues getting the 14nm process right, similar to the issues that caused intel delays with broadwell.

2. Nothing has been mentioned about price so anything is fair game. It depends largely on the actual performance of zen. When bulldozer came out it was priced higher than it is now and it was expected to perform better than it did. When real performance figures came out prices changed to reflect that.

3. Dx12 will benefit all cpu's not just amd...

kanewolf

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1 -- Don't hold your breath. Until review sites have it in hand don't assume you can buy one.
2 -- Nobody knows. They will have to make it competitive with current parts, but will try to price it as high as they believe it will sell
3 -- It will help, but both Intel and Nvidia will bring new products out also.
4 -- Nobody besides AMD knows.
5 -- Nobody knows. It shouldn't but since it is vaporware, nobody can be sure.
6 -- "box" coolers are OK but aftermarket are always quieter.
 
All indications are that Zen isn't coming out until pretty late in 2016, so it's not an option unless you want to wait until next Christmas to do your build, and even then it might not be out by them if there are any delays.

If you want to build with AMD parts, then you're stuck with what's available now, which is the three year old Piledriver CPUs on the AM3+ socket, or the low end APUs on the FM2+ socket.

 
1. Zen is supposed to be out around Q4 of 2016, supposedly around october/nov but it's still too early to speculate. It's not just an amd issue, intel hit snags that caused broadwell serious delays as well. If amd hits similar snags, it could be longer. Rumors say global foundaries are having issues getting the 14nm process right, similar to the issues that caused intel delays with broadwell.

2. Nothing has been mentioned about price so anything is fair game. It depends largely on the actual performance of zen. When bulldozer came out it was priced higher than it is now and it was expected to perform better than it did. When real performance figures came out prices changed to reflect that.

3. Dx12 will benefit all cpu's not just amd. The lower end cpu's which are currently struggling and cpu's with lower ipc stand more to gain because if they're causing a bottleneck at the moment dx12 will lighten the load on the cpu leaving more cpu power open to process the game rather than tied up in drivers the way it is now. Sort of cutting the middleman out of the path between game code and graphics card with more direct coding. The benefits to higher performing cpu's may not be as noticeable if they aren't having an issue keeping up to begin with.

Keep in mind dx12 will benefit newer games that are coded for dx12, dx11 games will continue to run the way they are now unless a game dev decides to recode already existing games and somehow add at least some dx12 support to them. More than likely extremely difficult and I wouldn't count on older games getting dx12 updates.

4. Unfortunately no way to know until it's here and in actual systems and being benchmarked against existing cpu's to find out where the performance falls. As with bulldozer speculation can be wrong and despite what 'should be', what it ends up to be may or may not live up to the hype. It's not saying zen is already a failure, just that no one knows or can know until it's actually performance tested.

5. No way to know for sure, moving to a smaller process should improve efficiency and it's one of their goals. They're changing from cmt to smt (becoming more like intel's hyper threading) in an attempt to improve core performance. How that actually translates into power consumption is a guess.

6. Pretty much ditto to what kanewolf said. If you're not overclocked you can probably do fine with a stock cooler. It depends on your circumstances. If you live in a cooler region or have a more climate controlled room and do light gaming and general pc tasks like web browsing the cpu won't tend to need as much in the way of cooling. If you have higher ambient room temps (28-30c or more) and you're frequently running intensive games for hours or doing substantial video editing/encoding then you may have a hotter running cpu and require a bit more cooling than stock can provide.

Using a temperature monitoring program is about the best way to determine your needs. If you hear your cpu fan spin up (make sure it's actually your cpu fan, not the gpu or another fan) fairly often and want a quieter cooler an aftermarket cooler would be a good idea. Using a $10 cooler probably won't do much better than the stock cooler.

A budget cooler in the $20-35 range can typically outperform stock coolers. Better than stock coolers in the aftermarket types are able to run quieter if they use a larger or more efficient cooler design where the fan can keep the cpu temps under control without having to spin the fan at full power. You shouldn't need a large cooler if it's not overclocked, the bigger air coolers and aio coolers (like the nh-d14, h100i etc) are more for people with really warm/hot room temps or who are overclocked producing much higher temps than a stock cpu.
 
Solution


There is always something new just over the horizon. The best answer to "when to buy a new computer" is "buy one when you need one." If you can wait a year, i.e. you don't really need a new one, then wait. If you need one now, get one now.

1) I read that AMD Zen comes out in 2016, but does anyone know the month?

2) how much will zen cost? will it be good value like the AMD FX processor?

3) my friend says direct x 12 will make AMD CPUs and GPUs better than Intel or Nivida, is this true? if so how?

4) should I expect much from AMD new zen? or is it just all talk?

5) will the new Zen processors use a lot of power like the AMD FX?

6) i never overclock on a pc, so do i need to buy a good CPU cooler or just use the one that comes with the retail CPU? (non related to title topic just a newbie question)

1. Nobody outside of AMD would know, and they might not even know. Everything would be under NDA and AMD is very tight-lipped, so I am guessing we won't know until very shortly before products actually ship.

2. There will certainly be lower-priced units regardless of how expensive the high-end parts are; there are cheap Intel Celerons, Pentiums, and i3s despite the real high-end parts (Xeon E7s) costing five grand or so apiece. How expensive the entire SKU range is in total depends heavily on how well they perform compared to Intel's latest and greatest. We won't know that until right around launch.

3. We won't know until parts ship or ESes leak right before the release and get benched.

4. Generally AMD rolls out something very innovative whenever they roll out a new product/technology- the K7 was much faster than the PIII, the K8 was much faster than the P4 and shot Intel's Itanium plans in the foot, the Opterons' point-to-point buses and IMCs embarassed Intel's FSB-equipped server CPUs until Intel ripped off the concept with Nehalem, they made a radical change in architecture with Bulldozer to try to beat Intel's HyperThreading, and they really pioneered the integrated CPU/IGP APU concept. Sometimes they hit a real home run (K7, K8, APUs), sometimes it is a big home run in certain fields but not others (NUMA in the server Opterons vs. desktop FX-7x series), and other times it ended up not being quite what was hoped for (Bulldozer.) I will say that Microsoft's mediocre OSes and their lack of support for newer technologies are usually implicated as causing some (Bulldozer) or most (poor NUMA support) of the problems with new AMD parts.

5. AMD, just like Intel, will likely make a range of products ranging from low power usage/lower performacne to high power usage/higher performance. Remember, AMD made Socket FM2/FM2+ APUs with the exact same architecture as the FXes that used a lot less power. This is the same with Intel putting all of their lower-TDP parts on 115x while all of the 2011 parts are high-wattage.

6. A retail cooler, if one is included, will adequately cool a stock CPU in a case with sufficient ventilation for how much wattage the CPU and the other components produce. Don't expect to stuff a 250 watt GPU and a 125 watt CPU in a mini-ITX desktop case with one 80 mm fan and expect things to run cool at full roar.
 
1) I read that AMD Zen comes out in 2016, but does anyone know the month?

Q4, according to AMD, so the October/December timeframe. Unless they really mean Fiscal Quarter 2016, which runs through March. Basically, late 2016 through early 2017, assuming no delays.

2) how much will zen cost? will it be good value like the AMD FX processor?

Almost certainly more expensive initially. AMD can't afford to discount it's CPUs anymore, as they desperately need to start making a profit.

3) my friend says direct x 12 will make AMD CPUs and GPUs better than Intel or Nivida, is this true? if so how?

No. DX12 is going to make CPUs do better by virtue of moving more work to the GPU in games that use it, which will help lower-core CPUs out the most, such as the Pentium and i3 lineups. CPUs with more cores are going to see less improvement in performance. In short: Intel CPUs are going to remain faster.

4) should I expect much from AMD new zen? or is it just all talk?

Zen looks a lot like an Intel CPU. AMD is claiming their CPUs are 40% faster, but no one knows is the clocks are going to be reduced, which will cut into the performance. Most here expect the chips to perform about the same as Intels Haswell lineup, or slower then Skylake and newer Intel chips.

5) will the new Zen processors use a lot of power like the AMD FX?

Unknown. Probably less simply due to being on a smaller process and general improvements in the architecture, but we can't say for sure yet.

6) i never overclock on a pc, so do i need to buy a good CPU cooler or just use the one that comes with the retail CPU? (non related to title topic just a newbie question)

Unknown; the answer to the above will affect this, but in most cases, the stock cooler is fine for stock usage.
 

Stupid Chief

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Nov 1, 2015
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4,510
Thank you very much everyone for helping me out!
i will decide to wait until late 2016 to find out what happens, in the mean time i will probably just get starwars battle front on xbox one lol and cod black ops 3 for xmas.

i chose synphul for best solution because answers were really informative and clear to understand for a noob like me haha! again thanks to other helpers too and sorry for the late response!