First PC build ever, advice much appreciated.

It says the shopping cart is empty, please use pcpartpicker.com in order to pull your system together.

I think you are being too formal here, and I think you don't understand my side. It's not really cool when a guy comes out and says to make him a build. It would be more beneficial if you do that yourself - you will learn more about your own computer and do some research, get some knowledge. Also, I still don't understand if you want to buy a prebuilt PC or if you want to build your own. I'm just gonna say that building your own PC will save you SO much money. It is much cheaper to build, you get a fully customizable PC if you build, and it is truly yours if you build it

So here's what I put together for ya:
http://pcpartpicker.com/p/TMCPCJ

In order for me to improve it and cut down the costs, could you please list the games you plan to play and stream? What kind of performance do you expect from your new PC? Do you want to overclock? Do you need an SSD (greatly improves Windows loading times)? Do you need a big SSD as your primary drive? Are you okay with only an HDD? What kind of PC do you want? Really small? Medium? Normal size? One that looks like a little metal box?

First of all, Skyrim is NOT demanding AT ALL! You can run Skyrim at 60 FPS ultra settings even on a cheap-ass card such as a GTX 750.
Furthermore, Fallout 4 is not THAT demanding so there shouldn't be a problem there. Battlefront however is a pretty cool game so if you want to be able to play it 60 FPS 1080p ultra then you want to get at least a GTX 960.

WHen you said "I want to stream", I thought that you would be streaming demanding games like Witcher 3, but LoL is not demanding at all so an i5 would be a better choice if you want to save money. i7 won't be worth it for what you do.

SSD simply gives you rocket fast, satisfying loading times. You will feel like a God with an SSD after you were using an HDD a lot so decide whether you want one or not.

Case does NOT show performance, but I need to take into account space contraints so if you have very little space to work with then a mini-ITX or MicroATX MiniTower would be good, but because you said you would be fine with a normal sized case, a Mid-Tower would be fine.

Which Assasin's Creed do you want to play? The new ones are awfully demanding (because of their terrible optimization) but if you pick up a GTX 960 you will be fine. I never recommend AMD cards to people because they are hot as well, consume a lot of power, and are a pain when it comes to drivers.

So here's the revised build I put together for ya:

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/GPKDYJ

I was glad to help. Is there anything else? Do you do any editing, rendering, coding? And you also didn't tell me if you want to be able to overclock.

Yes, I'm following this thread so I see everything others, including you, post here. The GTX 970 is THE beast at 1080p. It is that kind of GPU that you can max out ANY game in the world and you will get smooth performance. The GTX 960 is not that bad either. It's a solid card for mid-range gaming (1080p gaming) and will give you great performance. There is $100+ difference between the two cards so I don't think you really NEED more performance for that much more money - I understand you are on budget.

I can't really tell you how much better the new PC will be but it will be MUCH better meaning you will be able to play most games maxed out 60 FPS 1080p and will need to play only couple of more demanding games at med-high settings.

All the parts in the build I put together for you are top quality. You said you may want to overclock so you are good because I put an aftermarket cooler (Cryotig H7) in the build so you should be fine. You could get the good old Hyper 212 EVO for a little cheaper if you want.

The case I picked is very nice, high quality and pretty roomy. You can do as some nice cable management in it. It looks like a black box though so if you want a visually appealing case that will send your friends into awe when they would look at it, I will find you one.

None of the people at toms hardware (maybe some) are paid anything. The moderators here are sheer volunteers and responsible people, other people like me just help people because:
A) they have time
B) they know stuff
C) they just like helping other and sharing knowledge

You are welcomed to post any questions in this thread or private message me any time. I usually have very busy school weeks (all Honors and AP classes) so I will try to respond as soon as possible

The cooler doesn't improve performance in any way. What it does is it cools the CPU so it can Perform more operations. When you Overclock a CPU, you raise its clock raising the number of operations it can do in a cycle or a particular time. Honestly, I'm not an expert on overclocking so you could create a separate thread with that specific question. The stock cooler that will come with your CPU (not if you buy sky lake or high end xeons) will be enough to properly cool down the i5 processor that I suggested if you don't Overclock.

Yes, different CPUs and different GPUs have different overclockability. Some are better Overclockers than others, some CPUs are essentially locked (non overclock able). The CPU I suggested is a good overclocker. When talking about overclocking the motherboard is also important. The motherboard I suggested is pretty much the cheapest high quality motherboard taut can Overclock well.

No, we weren't necessarily talking about the Zotac GTX 970. We were talking about ALL GTX 970's out there. The only difference between different brands of the graphics cards that are slapped onto them is the cooler, PCB, possibly backplate, factory Overclock and in some cases unique overclocking or monitoring software related to a particular brand.

New stuff is new stuff - it's under warranty and its new - it's not likely to break. Many people still buy used components such as CPUs, GPUs just to save some money. Depreciation over time is questionable. For example a GTX 760 is still worth $100+ nowadays even used although it may be 2+ years old. It works = it sells.

You also said that you don't have the luxury for a good looking case. Well, there are some good-looking ones out there:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/CiT-Goblin-Gaming-Interior-Toolless/dp/B00I9XOSLW/ref=sr_1_1/278-1784725-0907531?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1447976564&sr=1-1
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811139041
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00E0P7JFA/?tag=pcpapi-20
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811553018&nm_mc=KNC-GoogleAdwords-PC&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleAdwords-PC-_-pla-_-Computer+Cases-_-N82E16811553018&gclid=Cj0KEQiAg7ayBRD8qqSGt-fj6uYBEiQAucjOwaQJcw19V8iKGYmnqPiyoO_vONKey0aw9bpwApOdzMIaAq8U8P8HAQ&gclsrc=aw.ds
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Computers/dp/B00MNIGFB0/ref=sr_1_3/278-1784725-0907531?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1447976564&sr=1-3
http://www.amazon.co.uk/CiT-Spectre-Gaming-Window-Toolless/dp/B00JKW3FXI/ref=sr_1_2/278-1784725-0907531?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1447976564&sr=1-2
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Zalman-Z11-Plus-Installation-Anti-Vibration/dp/B007C008L2/ref=sr_1_11/278-1784725-0907531?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1447976564&sr=1-11

Now, I am not necessarily telling you that these cases are better. These cases simply look more appealing. Corsair 200R case or NZXT Source 210 may look like big metal boxes but they are high quality, roomy, and nice. Your choice is between looks and functionality.

It looks good. The thing is, with that budget you really want to build a power effective, stable, cool and quiet PC so going the AMD route is not gonna fly especially their GPUs.

Although AMD GPUs generally provide more performance at a similar price, the AMD cards also consume tremendous amounts of power as well as produce tons of heat which will make your PC a burning hell if you are gaming hard, and will probably be loud too.
NVIDIA graphics cards have a better driver management system, better oprimized drivers, nice features (for example, ShadowPlay is AWESOME!), they are power efficient and quiet. That is why I recommend you get the GTX 960 especially at the $170 price point it is a solid card.

Yes, I have seen you change the RAM. Honestly, in gaming dual channel RAM (4x2) and single channel (8x1) has little difference, but in certain task, the dual channel RAM is quite advantageous and is worth to spend $5 more.
Quoting a person here at Tom's:

"With a dual channel system, one channel is always available for loading, refreshing, and housekeeping while the other channel is being read. The channels are read alternately, one being read into the buss while the other is being prepared for use, or being written to. What exactly happens is the pervue of the memory controller and it's firmware.
With single channel operation there is always something "waiting in line" while the memory is busy. This limits what operations can be performed, and those generating a "write" instruction have to wait their turn. This makes the buffer (onboard memory) more critical and works it harder.
This is why there isn't a lot of quad channel systems out there, 2 channels offers the time sharing advantage with a minimum of hardware and software to control it. More than 2 channels increase the time and effort put into controlling the process, with little or no improvement in final speed." - Scott594

You can look around for benchmarks single vs dual channel memory or read some here:
http://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/1349-ram-how-dual-channel-works-vs-single-channel/Page-3

Also, because you choose a bigger case, I would recommend you the Hyper 212 EVO cooler instead; it is marginally worse than the Cryorig H7 (1-3 degrees difference in cooling ability) but it is essentially just a little cheaper: http://www.amazon.com/Cooler-Master-Hyper-212-RR-212E-20PK-R2/dp/B005O65JXI/ref=sr_1_1?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1448059245&sr=1-1&keywords=212+evo

Also, don't forget to get some fans for the case!

The link you posted is invalid. Please copy the permalink.

Also, I really don't know about Finland. Just look around at trusted internet markets or local computer shops.

The difference between the GTX 960 2GB and GTX 960 4GB versions is very marginal because of the card's 128-bit bus which is too small to utilize more than 2GB effectively, so if you buy the 2GB card, you won't be losing anything.

2x4 is generally a better buy than 1x8 but you know, I hope you read the article and you know the difference. It's only $5 difference so it doesnt matter, 2x4 is slightly better as is better for multi-tasking.

240 Euro CPU: http://www.amazon.de/Intel-Core-i5-4690K-Processor-Cache/dp/B00KPRWB9G/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1448084991&sr=8-1&keywords=i5+4690K

35 Euro EVO: http://www.amazon.de/Cooler-Master-Hyper-CPU-K%C3%BChler-RR-212E-16PK-R1/dp/B0068OI7T8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1448074219&sr=8-1&keywords=212+evo

84 Euro Motherboard: http://www.amazon.de/Asrock-Z97-ANNIVERSARY-Mainboard-Sockel/dp/B00LA6PPBW/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1448085198&sr=8-2&keywords=z97

45 Euro RAM: http://www.amazon.de/Crucial-BLS2CP4G3D1609DS1S00CEU-Ballistix-Arbeitsspeicher-240-polig/dp/B006YG94Y2/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1448085356&sr=8-3&keywords=ram

52 Euro HDD: http://www.amazon.de/Western-Digital-WD10EZEX-interne-Festplatte/dp/B0088PUEPK/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1448085395&sr=8-2&keywords=western+digital+1tb

214 Euro GPU: http://www.amazon.de/MSI-V320-004R-GTX960-NVIDIA-Grafikkarte/dp/B00SKTY6PS/ref=sr_1_2?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1448074126&sr=1-2&keywords=gtx+960

63 Euro Case: http://www.amazon.de/Corsair-Carbide-Schwarz-Tower-CC-9011023-WW/dp/B009GXZ8MM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1448074633&sr=8-1&keywords=corsair+200r

73 Euro PSU: http://www.amazon.de/Sharkoon-WPM700-Bronze-PC-Netzteil-Kabelmanagement/dp/B00JM5HSKY/ref=sr_1_14?ie=UTF8&qid=1448085480&sr=8-14&keywords=power+supply

Some of these I changed because they were cheaper and you don't really lose anything by purchasing such cheaper parts.
The Power Supply is one I have never heard of but it got 80+ Bronze certification and it got good reviews so I think it's good.

Overall, if all parts were to be purchased from amazon.de, it would sum up to: 806 Euro

If you want to spend less than 650 Euro, then I can give you an AMD alternative for the CPU and the motherboard.

You will definitely lose a little of performance and you will be stuck on AMD, but it's not that bad, you will still run anything you want just fine. You want to hear the suggestion, or is the build above satisfactory because the build above is pretty much the best thing for what you need and what you plan to do.

Okay, I am really glad that two opinionated people have met together.

Actually, if you would read my previous post I said, "If you want to spend less than 650 Euro, then I can give you an AMD alternative for the CPU and the motherboard. You will definitely lose a little of performance and you will be stuck on AMD, but it's not that bad, you will still run anything you want just fine" - Me

So, this is probably going to be a long reply because I want to really explain the difference between current Intel and AMD processors.

Intel CPUs:
- Much more powerful single core performance which will not majorly bottleneck even more powerful cards such as the GTX 980.
- Single core performance of an Intel CPU allows for noticeably more FPS in gaming (unless you are already getting 60 FPS with an AMD CPU)
- Intel CPUs have a much better lithography thus they consume MUCH less power and generate MUCH less heat than the AMD counterparts.
- Intel CPUs are a premium pay, you pay for reliability, stability (an Intel CPU can work without a hitch up to 80-85 degrees Celcius which is a very high temperature), they are easier to cool, and are power efficient, and powerful.
- Overclocking Intel CPUs is easy and they are very stable at high overclocks even on air.

AMD CPUs:
- Cheap as f*ck, very good choice for people that know what they are doing and know they will not upgrade in the near future
- Very good choice for video editors and enthusiasts on a budget (aka people that don't want to buy i5-4460 or any of the Xeons)
- AMD CPUs generate (generally) more heat and consume (generally) more power. The big downsde of it is the fact that an AMD CPU's sweet temp spot should be (generally) below 62 degrees celcius compared to the more power efficient and sturdy Intel counterparts with a 80-85 degree ceiling.
- AMD CPUs can be very useful in streaming and very heavy multitasking (although streaming LoL will be better on an Intel i5 because Lol only uses one core)
- In hardcore overclocking of FX 6 and 8-core CPUs, 4.4+ Ghz you will generate so much heat that air cooling will probably not be able to handle it so you gotta go liquid.

Regarding FPS in games, here's the difference between let's say an i5-4690K and an FX-8350: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZN64tKL1e8

As you can see sometimes (in heavily multi threaded games that can take advantage of the FX's 8 cores, the FPS in either similar or the i5 wins by only about 5 FPS, but in some games, the i5 give you MUCH more FPS. In the video they used the GTX 980 to emphasize the difference in power between the two.

Check these videos out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJfqVU3iczc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGnrdFXZ6ZQ

In one video, a guy has an i5 and GTX 960 and another guy has FX 6300 and R9 390 and they get approximately the same FPS when playing Star Wars Battlefront. The fact that the GTX 960 is considerably weaker than the R9 390 really shows how the i5 can drag a good GPU up, and how the FX-6300 (due to its poor single cor performance inherent in most AMD CPUs) drags the GPU down aka bottlenecks it.

Now, second question: "- Is 600 watt a big enough PSU?" yes it is enough whether it is FX-6300 + R9 390 or the i5 + GTX 960 you are choosing, but it is important to see what quality PSU it is. People here at Tom's put a PSU tier list listing the best and the worst PSUs according to certain tiers: http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/id-2547993/psu-tier-list.html
According to the Tier List, EVGA Supernova GS Series and G2 Series rank in Tier 1 (THE BEST) AND they are of similar price to the power supply you chose which I didn't find because there was no model number or links in pcpartpicker or anywhere else so I would just get the Supernova PSU. In addition, it comes with a 10 year warranty which is awesome.

Now I want to say why I would choose the GTX 960 over the AMD counterparts:
- Geforce Experience
- Many games suck NVIDIA's dick
- Very well optimized drivers
- Power efficiency
- NVIDIA cards produce less heat and are thus quieter
- I know 5+ friends with NVIDIA cards and they never had any problems with them
Now to AMD GPUs:
- I had problems with AMD drivers on older models of AMD GPUs
- One of my friends has an R7 260x which causes him black screens, screen tearing and all kinds of crap which doesn't happen on his onboard graphics
- My other friend has an R9 280 which is honestly a piece of crap because the computer it's installed in (FX-6300, 16GB RAM, Stupidly expensive motherboard, CX 600W which I know is a pretty bad PSU) doesn't work well at all, and it was proved to be the GPU.
- I have a bunch of people with R9 290(x) and 390(x) having problems so yeah
- AMD cards are a hell producing tons of heat and consuming a tons of electricity
- Overclocking AMD cards is suicide if your card doesn't have a nitrogen cooler from the 2100s (exaggeration intended)

Now about your build, I already talk you about the PSU, Supernova would be better for a similar amount of money; I already told you about the CPU and GPUdifferences.
1) Now first of all, I would never take a Barracuda, they fail frequently and are not as reliable as WD Caviar Blue Drives.
2) RAM is fine, it really doesn't matter much in gaming.
3) The case is crap. The quality control of the company is probably below ground zero. Corsair 200R I suggested to your brother although does look like a boring black box is an awesome, nice, sleek case with very good air flow.
If you really want a pretty case, I posted some links above. I, personally like this case a lot, idk why:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811853002&cm_re=deepcool_sw-_-11-853-002-_-Product

Yep, I think that sums it up. My reply is pretty big so I hope you didn't die of my nerdiness while reading it

Now, I am not saying that AMD is not good. Some AMD cards are worth buying over NVIDIA's but it is a sacrifice of efficiency, perks, power consumption, support etc for raw performance.

AMD CPUs are also not THAT bad. If you are on a budget and if you want to make it very cheap, getting FX-6300 would be okay.

Okay, so you said change a 240 euro Intel CPU to 140 euro Intel CPU, which CPU are you talking about? If it's an i3, then it is still okay, but all i3's are LOCKED, and they are dual cores with HT so they won't fair very well in streaming (aka i5 will be better). Also, if you (your brother) is not going to overclock, this 160 euro CPU is VERY good and is not that expensive, it's an i5 but LOCKED (aka non-overclockable): http://www.amazon.de/Intel-BX80646I54460-I5-4460-Quad-Core-Prozessor/dp/B00K5J2306/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1448141150&sr=8-1&keywords=i5+4460

If you would choose to buy the i5-4460 over i5-4690K (there's very small difference in performance + i5-4460 is not overclockable so you can keep the stock cooler instead of buying an aftermarket one thus saving $30 dollars), then you can get a cheaper motherboard to save more but don't go too cheap. Get something like this: http://www.amazon.de/H81M-PLUS-Mainboard-Sockel-Intel-Speicher/dp/B00EIG2O2O/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top?ie=UTF8
Or this if you want something of higher quality: http://www.amazon.de/Asrock-Z97-ANNIVERSARY-Mainboard-Sockel/dp/B00LA6PPBW/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1448085198&sr=8-2&keywords=z97

I really don't know what is up in Finland so you can buy other motherboards for cheaper in stores if you find any (I don't live in Finland so I really don't know what boards you have there).

But yeah, this way you can save 100+ Euro and still stay with Intel's high performance.

If you want to save 50 more Euro then yeah, you can get FX-6300 which would be better in streaming and heavy multi-tasking, but the fact that he only streams LoL and doesn't really multi-task, then the i5-4460 would be better.

Here's a revised build: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/pcNtZL
Although the prices are in $, I put them into euros for you guys so the total price you see is not really in $, but in euros.

I don't know anything Finland/German power supplies so you guys gotta decide which one you are getting yourselves. The Sharkoon one looks good to me.

Feel free to ask other questions if you have them

Okay, now you are just raping my brain. You are way overthinking this. Whichever build you pick (i5-4460 or i5-4690K) you will run any of your games fine and you sure will be happy. i5-4460 would be a better choice if you just want a stable/nice CPU that you won't have to bother overclocking and have problems with cooling.

Your brother said that you are a poor family so you know what? I think the money that could buy you a better CPU could be used to buy an extra pack of beef for dinner one day so let's do this: What is your budget? EXACT BUDGET. Do you plan to upgrade your PC in the next 2-3 years. What games do you want to play at what graphics quality, and at what resolution?

I see you are confusing me and yourself. Please answer ONLY those questions so we can clarify everything.