Help choosing back up solution

forgedthroughfire · Nov 30, 2015

First post!
To be brief I have backup storage issues.
I have a 120Gb system SSD.
A 3TB (WD) data drive,
and a 3TB (SG) backup drive.

SSD is 95% full
data drive is 63% full
backup drive is 100% full

I'm using Win 7 Pro 64 bit.
I'm using the Windows Backup tool. It's complaining it's out of space.

Is this because Windows BU is trying to store more than 1 system image? There should be room on a 2.7TB drive for 1.7TB of data and 110GB of system files.

I need to either A) Get a larger backup drive and/or B) use different backup software

Ideally I'd like a system image made from my SSD only, once a month and keep about 3 months worth at any given time (that would total only 350GB) , while SEPARATELY keeping a single backup copy of my data drive updated once a week. (which currently has 1.7TB on it, plus the 350Gb system images and the total is still only 2TB on a 3TB backup drive)

I don't want 3 system image files that include identical copies of my huge data drive. That would require close to 6TB of room and be unnecessary.

Is there any way to do this?

I'm starting to wonder if I just need to build a NAS. That way this computer can access the data on the data drive without it being incorporated into the system image back ups. And then I could get the NAS to create a single backup of the data once a week.

Any programs that would help with this? Or do I just need to get an external shell for this data drive so I can plug it in when I need it, and unplug it when the system is making a backup? And then manually make a copy of the drive every now and then.

Ralston18 · Nov 30, 2015

Actually what you need is a backup strategy. Please appreciate that that is not intended to demean or insult you.

Obviously, you recognize the value of having backups but it has gotten a bit out of control.

Whatever backup processes, automated or otherwise, that you use are gobbling up disk space. Software, per se, will not solve it.

Most likely you are keeping too many copies: e.g., images, data, whatever.

Three copies should be enough using the grandfather, father, son approach – three “generations” worth.

And a possibly a forth copy maintained “off-site”. I will not recommend use of the cloud as I do not use that myself for a variety of reasons. You may feel differently. But having three images on the same backup device or location will be self-defeating if there is some castastropic problem or event. Keep at least Generation 3 somewhere else.

There are different kinds of backups (full, incremental, etc.) and you need to decide which to use for your environment. Easy to find related tutorials or white paper type “best practices”.

You need to decide what backup rules to use and then implement them via any one of the number of software apps and utilities that are available these days. Use software that will only update files that have actually been changed.

Identify and prioritize what needs to be backed up. Images seem to be important to you. Data files as well but there may be an inherent duplication there as images will contain the data files of the drive imaged.

Decide what is to be backed up, when it is to be backed up, and permit older files to be over-written with their updated counterpart.

You will also be more comfortable if you can include some plan for verification. Did the file really get backed up, remain retrievable and readable? Testing will be needed.

Otherwise you will just eventually fill up the NAS and be looking at the same situation again.

Make a plan, work on it, modify as warranted, and stick with it.

forgedthroughfire · Nov 30, 2015

Thank you Ralston, no offense taken.
Though I wouldn't say it's "gotten out of control" as windows back up gives very little (Control), so after installing a blank back-up drive and selecting "start back up to this drive" I was given almost no options whatsoever.

I am not intentionally keeping too many copies of anything, as my understanding of windows backup is limited, I'll admit, and I'm unaware of how to get it to do what I would like.

My reason for suggesting the NAS is that it is the only practical way I can think of to use the tools at my disposal to do what I want, which is:

a) have 2-3 system images generated from my 120GB SSD, which can be used as generally fail-proof system recovery points. One of a near-new computer (as it is now), and one or two from within the last 1-6months so that any major changes since then may be recovered.

b) have ONE copy of my data drive which is kept up to date. It doesn't need to be bootable, just a copy of photo files.

All of this is should take only about 2TB of space and I have a 2.7TB drive to store it on. So I have room for expansion as more photos are added.
However my attempts to make this happen with Windows Backup are problematic possibly due to similar issues I see online of others finding an issue with how windows backup functions, specifically within windows 7 pro 64 bit.

My backup plan (ideally) is as follows:

my data drive is cloned once a week (if changes are detected) so that if there are any major mistakes "I'm sorry, I kind of deleted our vacation with your family, can you get it back?" they can be fixed with a simple wipe and copy of the back up drive.

my primary drive (ssd, 120GB) has a "restore to default" image made ideally very soon (computer has only been built relatively recently and I've only just now finished getting all parts and drivers working properly) which is stored on a separate drive in case the SSD fails. This can also be stored on the backup drive as I don't anticipate losing both the backup drive and the other drives on the same day. It would be nice to have a second image that is kept up to date, about once a month, in case of major viral infection, so I can simply take a step back in time.

Is there a software (preferly not $100) that would allow me to use this 3TB drive to do these two SEPARATE tasks? My struggle seems to be that every time windows makes a backup to this drive, if I select "system image" it makes a system image of BOTH drives, not just the primary, which causes problems because I don't want that. I want the two drives handled differently.

popatim · Nov 30, 2015

First I recommend that you get an external backup drive or convert this one into an external with a usb3 enclosure. This way you can remove it from all outside connections (data & power) so that the only thing that will wipe out all your drives is something like a whole house fire. Otherwise you are just 1 virus or lightning strike away from exactly that happening. You are the 16th post down the list in the storage forums as I am reading them tonight and so far 3 people have lost all their drives. One the PSU blew up and killed everything in his system (i moved it to systems), one his hdd died first followed shortly by his ssd (i'll assume his PSU has gone to crap and is killing things), and another dropped his laptop with raid1 drives in it (sad).

Hopefully you now see that a real backup must also be kept safe and you cant do that if its still in your pc.

As for your software needs, have a look at these free backup & imaging options.
Cobian Backup
Paragon Backup and Recovery Free
Backup Maker

All three should be able to handle your needs.

ArtPog · Nov 30, 2015

Consider the following backup strategy given your situation...

1. First, forget about using the Windows Backup "Tool". For a variety of reasons it's a wretched piece of software and there are much, much better programs for a PC user to consider in order to create & maintain a comprehensive backup system.

2. Consider a sound disk-cloning program that you can utilize at reasonably frequent intervals so as to create comprehensive backups of your entire system.

3. Utilizing your current 3 TB "storage drive" as the destination drive, i.e., the recipient of the cloned data, you would create two partitions on that drive - one of 120 GB and the other encompassing the remainder of the disk-space of that disk.

4. Using the disk-cloning program (and I'll give you my recommendation by & by), you would clone the contents of your 120 GB SSD boot drive perhaps on a weekly basis or even more frequently should you choose.

5. At the same time (should you choose) you would clone the contents of your 2 TB "data drive" to the second partition of your Seagate 3 TB HDD.

6. The point of all this is that you would be maintaining comprehensive reasonably up-to-date backups of your *entire* system.

7. The disk-cloning program I strongly recommend is the Casper program (http://www.fssdev.com). The program is simple to use and quite effective in carrying out its disk-cloning operations. But its chief advantage is its speed. When the program is used on a routine/frequent basis (as it should be used) it carries out its disk-cloning operations with relatively great speed as compared with other disk-cloning programs. Casper has a unique capability - Casper calls it "SmartClone" technology - in that during the disk-cloning operation the program will identify *only* data that has changed since the previous disk-cloning operation. This capability greatly speeds up the disk-cloning operations.

Casper is a commercial product and sells for $49.95. Coincidentally they're offering substantial discounts only today (11/30) and tomorrow (12/1) as follows...

(I sent this info to this forum yesterday...)
In case anyone is interested Casper is offering a substantial discount for their disk-cloning
program. This is a legitimate discount offer that Casper offers only once-a-year in my
experience. The usual cost for the program is $49.95; the discount is 50% so the cost will be
$24.98. NOTE THE 50% DISCOUNT IS BEING OFFERED ONLY FOR ONE DAY -
MONDAY, NOVEMBER 30.

A 30% discount is being offered on Tuesday, December 1, so cost should be about $35 if ordered on that date.

For the Nov 30 discount enter HOL50 at...
http://www.fssdev.com/shop/shopcart.aspx?pid=FSSCSE8PL&...;HOL30

For the Dec 1 discount the code is HOL30

forgedthroughfire · Dec 1, 2015

Last and final question then.

I'm trying to cover my bases for realistic and reasonable events.
To avoid PSU meltdown disaster, I should move to external?
(which I would think was just as likely to cause damage to the drive as internal statistically speaking, i.e. getting knocked over, having the external power supply go haywire, a dog eats it, eagles swoop in and steal it for their own computer system in the Himalayas, what-have-you, etc. etc.)
If I do, is it safe to leave said external drive plugged in 24/7?
I want to automate this as much as possible without putting out $500.
So having a solution that involves me plugging in a hard drive once a week, and click a button, while it is super simple, is not likely to happen. The human error in there is far greater than my fears of my PSU exploding.

That being said I'm also a sucker for %50 off a product.
I'll be checking for an hour or so, but any last votes as to whether I should use:

EaseUS ToDo Backup
Cobian Backup
Paragon Backup and Recovery Free
Backup Maker
AOMEI Backupper

and Casper

ArtPog · Dec 1, 2015

The Casper disk-cloning program I've recommended can be scheduled to perform a backup on a routine basis or at a time that is more convenient for you. You can create a backup schedule that will perform a backup daily, weekly, monthly, or at any time of your choosing.

Your destination drive(s), the recipient(s) of the cloned data from your source disk(s), can be either internally connected in the system or externally connected to USB devices. Many users prefer the latter configuration since it affords additional security for the cloned data. Personally I'm uncomforatable with having a USB external enclosure powered-on 24/7. It's something I would never do.

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