New Build - Please help? Need advice on specs, thanks!

Jack500 · Dec 21, 2015

Hello everyone,

I am building my second new system (so I am not a complete newbie), but I would like to get people's professional and technical opinions. This will be used mainly for business, but will entertain gaming, and perhaps even some video editing as a hobby in the near future.

Would greatly appreciate any advice / comments you can offer!

SPECS
1. OS - Windows 7 64-bit (current), but will move onto Windows 10
2. Monitors - 3 Dell 24-inch monitors (all exact same model, already have these)
2. Case - Corsair 700D (already have this)
3. PSU - Corsair AX1500i (already have this)
4. Motherboard - Asus Maximus VIII Hero (Z170)
5. RAM - 32 GB
6. CPU - Intel Core i7-6700K
7. Graphics Card - Sapphire NITRO Radeon R9 390
8. Sound Card - ASUS Essence STX II
9. Hard Drives - 2 Intel 750 Series 800GB drives (AIC form factor); set up as RAID 1

Here are my questions:
1. Most important question - Would all these components be compatible with each other? As well, I'd like to make sure that all these components will fit onto the motherboard (and in the case).
2. Any other advice / comments you can offer?

Again, would greatly appreciate your help, thank you!

Jack500

SBennett13 · Dec 21, 2015

Theoretically, it will all work assuming the RAM is DDR4. I would add some kind of aftermarket cooling to the CPU. Personally, I'm a nVidia guy so I would change the GPU but if you like AMD, then go for it.

rhysiam · Dec 21, 2015

That's a huge amount of money you're spending there. When you say "business", are talking emails, Internet and spreadsheets? Or are you doing some serious (from a computing point of view) workloads?

Those two Intel 750s will cost the Earth and you need some massively intensive IO workloads to see any gain whatsoever over a standard SSD which will be a fraction of the cost.

Also, RAID 1 on identical SSDs doesn't make a heap of sense to me. You main risks of data loss on an SSD come from user error/mistakes, virus/malware, complete site or system failure (fire/flood/theft), firmware issues on the SSD, or SSDs failing from excessive write cycles (extremely unlikely!) - but NONE of those issues will be resolved by having a second identical SSD in RAID 1. If you're worried about data loss have a good offsite backup solution in place which will properly protect you from any and all of the above. Save your money on that second (hugely expensive!) Intel 750 - or better still, unless you have some insane IO workload, just get a nice big 850 EVO. It will be just as fast for 99% of workloads.

There are several other areas where you could save a heap of cash. Do you really need 32GB? A 6700K - which are current priced stupidly because of stock shortage? That really high end motherboard?

You could build 2 or possibly even 3 computers for that budget which would "feel" every bit as fast as that one for 95% of the time.

frapport · Dec 21, 2015

pcpartpicker.com is your friend, you can plug in all your choices and get a read
on wattage necessary and compatibility and pricing. If you hit [bb] and cut and
paste back here everyone can instantly assess what you are doing and your
approximate budget and speak to your build preferences.

The 1500i is probably overkill but then again I threw in a 1250W when my 850W
gave up the ghost. Are you going to double up on the R390 in the future?

Another question that occurs to me is how you are going to hook up the 750's
on the Hero VIII?

rhysiam · Dec 21, 2015

frapport :

AIC stands for "Add in card" and they go straight into a PCIe slot. That board has two slots which operate in x8 when both are populated, and a third dedicated x4 slot, all PCIe 3.0. Plus 3 additional x1 slots. So technically it will work having two 750 AICs and the graphics cards in the x4 & x8 slots, and the sound card in one of the x1 slots.

I still think it's a terrible idea and a massive waste of money unless OP is intending on running some IO intensive database workload 24/7 or something. But technically it will work.

frapport · Dec 21, 2015

Thanks rhysiam,

I was thinking he might take one of the SSD's and adapt it to the U.2/M.2 slot and go
from there. As you pointed out it gets crowded quickly on the motherboard and I'd hate
to lose the x16 for the high end graphics card even though that is completely irrational
on my part the x8 would be more than enough.

Without knowing the business case, that need for speed out of the SSD's is a bit of a
mystery. Depending on that then is the answer something like the 2011 socket and
extra pci-e lanes.

Jack500 · Dec 22, 2015

Thanks all for your advice and comments. Let's see...

1. Yes, I knew RAM needs to be DDR4. Thanks!
2. RAID 1 with those 2 SSDs was/is a big question mark for me. They are about $600 each. I have RAID1 currently with HDDs and one of them turned into a "brick" a few years back. Getting one EVO 850 instead does sound like a good option.
3. I can hold off a bit on the 6700K. Yea, the prices are kind of high right now. But I am interested in having a high end motherboard though.
4. RAM - it was either between 16GB or 32 GB. The price difference was +$89. I just played it extra safe.
5. I don't know if I will double up on the R390 in the future? In what situations would I want to do that and what are the benefits?
6. What are the benefits of going with an older architecture such as a 2011 vs. a Z170? Besides the cost and those extra pci-e lanes? Would I need extra lanes?

All good comments, thanks!

frapport · Dec 23, 2015

We still don't know your exact use case. The main thing you want the new machine for. That's what
you build to and everything else is just bonus then. It also helps to know what you are using now
so that you get a real boost and not a ho hum upgrade.

32GB of RAM is just a happy place for me. Do more for longer, that's the result.

The 2011 offerings can be very high end boards. 64GB limits and so on with many options.

Then there is the last generation of 4790K stuff that would let you have high end in proven tech.

Really need the use case though.

Jack500 · Dec 23, 2015

I will be using it for heavy business use; spreadsheet analysis, researching, etc. Multiple monitors, multiple multiple browsers, multiple tabs open. I will also be running at least one video during the time in the background. It is not full-time use, but the time I have to use it has to be very, very efficient. In other words, PC response has to be very quick and handle multiple tasks without any decrease in speed. That's what I value most. Second is a quiet PC. Cost is a much lower priority for me as I don't mind paying a few bucks more to have that piece of mind knowing I don't have to worry about whether I have enough RAM, video power, etc. Also, I may even consider adding in a 4th monitor.

I may expand the workload to include movie video editing as a hobby in the next year or two. I just want to get a sense the machine will be somewhat future-proofed for the next 5 years. Gaming would be nice, but that's low priority for me also.

Currently, I'm running a DX58SO2 board, i7-970, 24GB RAM, HT Omega Claro Plus card, ASUS Radeon HD 6970. I have two "spinners" in RAID 1, but I would really like to change over to SSD format (hopefully in AIC format).

Can you please elaborate what you mean by "proven tech".

frapport · Dec 24, 2015

The ecosystem built up around the 4690/4970 chips is multilevel and pretty well established. That means you
can find polished offerings when it comes to motherboards and options on them. They're stable usable tech
with few to little surprises and gotchas. You can piece together a fairly robust system with some overhead left
to add RAM and more powerful graphics later on.

I understand your need to have a very fast and efficient setup. I have a three screen setup as well in PLP,
portrait 20" x landscape 30" x portrait 20". I do digital darkroom and editing on the big monitor, toolboxes
can go in the others as well as browsers, text editors, paint programs or viewers.

Your current system is very powerful but it is now aging. I see the sense of what you are trying to do with
a new build with Skylake. The difference between spinners and SSD's is phenomenal. I put a SAS drive
into my Xeon system instead of an SSD it was a 15,000RPM model and it didn't come close to what I
got from my SSD when I finally saw the light.

What is it that you notice most about how your current system works for you? How does it handle the
spreadsheets and how big are they? Does your software exploit the multi-cores of your CPU or is it
single threaded for the most part?

Jack500 · Dec 25, 2015

Thanks Frapport,

So, you are saying 15,000 SAS is not as fast as an SSD? I'm just not familiar with SAS at the moment.

Spreadsheets are a small part of what I do (at least for now). Currently my system is fine for that. I couldn't answer whether I'm using multi-cores or if it's single-threaded. It's the research part where I need to increase my PC speed and efficiency. Also, I feel my mobo is running on its final legs and it is no longer being supported by Intel. I've been getting hung sometimes when quickly swapping between open browsers and tabs with a video or two playing in the background. I definitely need to have my PC booted much quicker too and need to backup much quicker.

frapport · Dec 25, 2015

SAS is basically Serial Attached SCSI. It is an enterprise solution for fast access and 24/7 operation
found in servers. I went for that with a dual Xeon setup along with ECC RAM for overall reliability.
10K and 15K are fast when web serving and doing large database functions. The drawback is that
they sport much lower capacity than SATA drives. You could easily get a couple of newer SATA
drives and raid them to stripe and mirror and have a good medium with a fast SSD.

SSD is fast. Very fast. And getting faster. The price is coming down and server farms have started
the switch for mission critical situations that also need really high speeds as well.

With your box there is a limit to what you actually need, a large RAM pool and a fast single SSD
should be a great upgrade. I hear you about wanting responsiveness just past reasonable because
that allows you to get more done in a shorter time. Time is money.

The thing with the 4790K option is that it sounds like you will hit walls sooner than later. Getting on
to the Skylake train will put you at the top of the current chips.

Going 2011 allows for either a 5930K 6 core or an X5960 8 core. I guess it depends on your research.
Are you calculating models? Doing simulations? The answer to that might mean many many cores
at slightly less speed or the new generation with fewer but faster cores. Your issues with swapping windows
and such sounds like your graphics card VRAM capacity. The R390 should end that little problem. The
other thing is you get that extra couple of percent from DDR4. A good motherboard will let you go
to 64GB if you find yourself doing way more all the time. Also having more lanes and 4x slots will let
you grab the newer faster AIC SSD's when they come down in price which will further extend your
investment. And the best motherboards are supporting NVMe drives as well.

My dual Xeon while not the fastest thing on the block allowed me to go for months and months with
absolutely no issues back and forth up and down with all manner of apps open and running and never
put away. I always have references and browsers open in my side 20" ers. I cut and paste a lot of
things off the web as idea and tid bits. With your multimonitor setup I'd be tempted to get a nice
curved 34" screen in a year or so and get a mount to put your other monitors above it.

Jack500 · Dec 25, 2015

Frapport,

Thanks. Yes, SSDs for me all the way. My strong preference is Skylake as long as I don't hear about any type of problems from the early adopters. No calculating models or simulations. Good to hear the R390 will take care of the windows swapping issues. It's becoming more and more common now in the last 6 months.

The Hero VIII has 4 RAM slots and can go up to 64GB, but based on ASUS''s "Qualified Vendor List" it looks like I will only be able to max out at 32GB (4x8GB @ DDR4 2133) via Corsair. You think I should up the ante and consider a 64GB DDR4 3400 from G.Skill (4x16GB). I trust Corsair; I just never heard of or dealt with G.Skill. I will not be doing any overclocking.

Never thought about getting a "curved" screen. What's the main benefit of a curved screen? Better viewing angle?

Breathe_67 · Dec 25, 2015

Just as a sidenote, the information you're getting from these guys is great, but I don't particularly recommend ATI cards for video editing, particularly if you plan on expanding to Crossfire in the future. The refresh latency when rendering on ATI cards can make them a bit of a pain. I would skimp in some of the other areas (like RAM, 32 GB is *way* too much RAM for Skylake, you'll never use it all) and instead of getting a powerhouse like the 390, I would get a workhorse with a bucket of VRAM like the Titan (expensive, I know, but you won't regret it for video editing.)

Jack500 · Dec 26, 2015

Thanks breathe_67 for that additional info.

Whoa, those cards are expensive. Right now, I only see a 5% chance of me getting into editing at some point down the road. I just can't justify the price of those cards for what I mainly need to do right now. But definitely good to know!

frapport · Dec 26, 2015

Well, gotta start somewhere:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i7-5930K 3.5GHz 6-Core Processor ($554.99 @ SuperBiiz)
CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D15 82.5 CFM CPU Cooler ($89.95 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: Asus SABERTOOTH X99 ATX LGA2011-3 Motherboard ($308.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR4-2400 Memory ($149.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung 850 Pro Series 512GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($219.00 @ Amazon)
Storage: Samsung SM951 512GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive ($334.99 @ Newegg)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 970 4GB FTW ACX 2.0 Video Card ($338.98 @ Newegg)
Total: $1996.89
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-12-26 15:57 EST-0500

Breathe_67 · Dec 26, 2015

I mostly agree with frapport, but I would reorganize some of that a bit.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i7-5820K 3.3GHz 6-Core Processor ($364.99 @ SuperBiiz)
CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D15 82.5 CFM CPU Cooler ($89.95 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: Asus X99-DELUXE/U3.1 ATX LGA2011-3 Motherboard ($388.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3000 Memory ($99.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung 950 PRO 256GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive ($189.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Samsung 850 Pro Series 1TB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($419.00 @ Amazon)
Video Card: Asus GeForce GTX 960 4GB Video Card (2-Way SLI) ($207.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Video Card: Asus GeForce GTX 960 4GB Video Card (2-Way SLI) ($207.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Total: $1968.89
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-12-26 17:06 EST-0500

Going SLI on two cards will give you more VRAM to work with, and since you're not going to be doing any super intense gaming the usual rule of going with one card over two doesn't strictly apply. The amount of RAM you'll need is going to be significantly lower than you think it will be. ( http://www.techspot.com/article/1043-8gb-vs-16gb-ram/ ) But don't skip on the RAM speed because if you're going to be working with heavy spreadsheets and such, you'll really want the access speed to be up there. I would go with a smaller M.2 to run your OS off of, then use the 850 Pro for your applications, and whatever other storage you need. If you need more than a TB for long term storage, I would look at getting a NAS or something on the network, but not in the computer for redundancy reasons. The X99 Deluxe is going to be a little more expensive than the Sabertooth, but it's a great board with a ton of features, and you're not going to have to fight with it as much. The Sabertooth is amazing until literally anything goes wrong and you have to fight with that armor plating for an hour. Plus the Deluxe is going to allow for a higher RAM speed.

Jack500 · Dec 26, 2015

Thanks! I have additional questions if you don't mind:

1. Motherboard - Why would we choose a 2011-v3 (X99) motherboard over an 1151 (Z170) motherboard? Isn't the 1151 the new kid on the block? Wouldn't that be more future-proofed? Price not being an issue, wouldn't it be better to go with the newer architecture? What are the benefits I would have with a 2011-V3 instead of an 1151?
2. Graphics Card - The SAPPHIRE NITRO Radeon R9 390 I chose has 8GB of RAM and costs $335. What is the benefit of going with either the EVGA GeForce GTX 970 4GB FTW ACX 2.0 Video Card (only 4MB of RAM) or buying two of Asus GeForce GTX 960 4GB Video Cards (together they total 8MB, the same as the R9 390 I chose)
3. Storage - I thought I would keep things simple and have 2 of the exact same drives in AIC format (plugged right into the motherboard) in RAID1. I currently have 2 "spinners" at 2TB each in RAID1 which has been working fine for me in my current build. I did try when I was building my current PC to have an SSD set up for OS and then an HDD for my applications. What a mess that turned out to be! I just gave up. As well, I just cannot risk having any downtime should one of the SSDs fail so that is why I was thinking RAID1. I'll pay for that peace of mind.

Thanks as your comments are most appreciative!

Breathe_67 · Dec 26, 2015

Jack500 :

1.) Chipsets aren't quite as simple as an even move towards better features. The Z170 chipset is a direct upgrade to the Z97 chipset, and the X99 chipset is a direct upgrade to the X79 chipset. The X## series is considered an "enthusiast" chipset, with a little more room to move around and some extra power for a little more money. The Z## series is great for gaming builds and such, and is really feature rich as well, but doesn't get the benefit of the more powerful CPUs (the 5820k is a 6-core, and the 6700 is a 4-core).

2.) AMD cards are good value for money, but there's a lot of debate about whether they're superior or inferior to Nvidia cards. My personal belief is that you'll get more legs out of an Nvidia card because their drivers do more for performance enhancement after purchase. The question you're asking doesn't have a really simple answer because different configurations will have different benefits. The GTX 970 is a really solid choice, especially for the price, and the extra 4GB of VRAM on the 390 would be completely redundant when going up against it (although would probably benchmark higher for other reasons). The GTX 970 will probably have a longer life cycle though, and it's a lot more efficient on power (not the biggest problem with your PSU, though.) That being said, you have the power breathing room to run SLI with no problems at all, and the GTX 960 is a great card for the money. I consider that to be a best of both worlds solution, as you'll have the extra VRAM, while also getting extra performance, and the Nvidia longevity. I hope that clarifies things a little.

3.) Running SSDs in RAID isn't something you need in any way. If you're not concerned about the speed from the M.2, that's fine, but honestly I really recommend it if you've got the money to spend, since it will streamline everything about your OS. You're concerned about redundancy, and I get that, but unless your whole PC gets nuked, you're not going to lose an SSD. It's flash memory, so there's no volatility. Run regular backups to an offsite, just in case you brick something on accident, but that's not going to be the drive failing, that would be a virus or an accidental deletion or something, which a RAID wouldn't protect you from anyway. Backups are always a good idea.

sancho_mic · Dec 26, 2015

Few points that i would recommend:

1) sli gpu does not mean you will have double the vram amount. Amount of usable VRAM will still be that of single card, only that will be used by 2 GPU's. 970 will be best performance for the money and better option than going sli on lower cards...

2) unless Jack is doing some serious multithreaded work (simulations, video editing/rendering, etc) no point going with x99 platform - based on what he said, his work scenario just requires him snappiness.
x99 might require more boot time as compared to z170 simply because would initialize more items.
Also most of the users are on consumer units (z series) and not on enthusiast (x series). I would say x99 would be a lonelier road when it comes to issues, compatibility and community support.

3) RAM - consider that the options are: 1) you will either remain with what you buy initially Or 2) upgrade entirely to new sticks, for better capacity.
Really not good option to buy in chunks and simply expect that the ram you buy now will be paired with extra ram sticks later and all will work fine. Even if it's from same manufacturer and same model and same marketing specs. Indeed there are higher chances to work if going extra mile, contact retailers/shops and pair with same batch, but really hard to find this 2-3 years down the line, when you decide to upgrade...

4) SSD - i would say the most compatibility and minimal headache will be given by going SSD's SATA (and also my recommendation would be samsung 850 evo or pro due to cost, performance and market share). The extra gain from intel 750 is not worth the price for most of the uses - @rhysiam pointed already this. If your main concern is "restore time" then go for raid 1 and pay the price. Otherwise i totally agree with @rhysiam & @breathe_67, use good backup.

5) PSU really not required that much as pointed by @frapport, even if going with dual GPU setup you would still be fine with a ax860i unit. Considering the z170 platform, the CPU's are more efficient and require less wattage.

6) why the k version? if overclock is not your focus, why pay the extra for the unlocked cpu? Stating the obvious: the speed on locked 6700 = speed on 6700k with 0% overclock.
Noctua is very good option for cooling indeed, as others recommended.

Finally, my general recommendation for Jack is to smart buy:
- Upgrade now your old system (which is still very good) with some SSD's - you will see huge performance difference and price is extremely good, probably also there are many promotions around this time.
- wait a bit for skylake CPU so that stock will increase hence you will get much better price
- same is valid for ddr4 ram, although the price is good also now as compared to 1 year ago, or even half year. Wait for end of january / february, you will see extra price drops (including mobo and possibly cpu).

(edited for extra clarity)

frapport · Dec 26, 2015

So, Jack500, what Breathe_67 said.

I was thinking of your current setup and what you said about lag. You have 2GB of DDR5 under the hood whilst the R390 has
8 GB and the 970 has 4 GB. Until you move to 4K screens 4GB will be enough. The difference between them is a couple of
bucks but NVidia being the bang for the buck across the gamut from drivers to horsepower and heat and so on. Either card
will serve but most people overbuild in the wrong place. GPU's can be changed out when a better solution comes along or
if more horsepower is needed. I run my three screens at 1200x1600 - 2560x1600 - 1200x1600. I've been fine running that
way since my 2GB GTX460. With a GTX 780 Ti and 3GB I am now on ultra for StarCraft II and no screen glitches no matter
how much is on them.

With the graphics card...either/or. Next gen pascal based GPU's and stacked HBM memory are on the horizon.

The M.2 is superfast. The upgrade from raided spinners will be breath taking. Having an SSD for scratch/temp/working
files will also be awesome. If you also add two newer spinners as backup you will find they are faster than your old
drives as well. I've got a speed range across my five spinners that is noticeable in testing but not so much in daily
use. Two larger spinners would hold older projects and backups nicely. I've always used a hotswap bay in conjunction
with cheap 1-2 TB spinners I pick up on sale and stockpile.

The X99 platform has more headroom. Plain and simple. It also incorporates DDR4. When you start to multitask across
40 browser tabs and then a couple of browsers and have all sorts of other things happening, that's when you will appreciate
the extra cores. Getting the 5930 will allow for extra PCI-e lanes if you upgrade to AIC's in the future or add an extra GPU.
It also allows you to upgrade to the 5960X without being forced to change the motherboard. That's the same as getting the
32GB up front. I'm idling on 16.1GB right now and that's just a base load because I am not really doing anything. This is
a temporary box filling in after the disaster with my dual xeon setup. It's way faster using the 4790K but I can see the edges
when I do push it. I'd just gotten comfortable with 72GB and 16 threads running a couple of Linux VM's and everything else.

In the end I think it is a little early for AIC's. Maybe a year, like Windows 10 needs a year. The M.2 on the other hand seems
ready to become the new standard for an SSD boot drive with most used apps being included. A second higher end SSD takes
care of everything else for speed. Temp files, scratch, most used etc. Keep all your research results and materials there for
fast access. Smaller drives just need to be policed more often. My 512GB is still only half full and a recent cleanup of my
spinners has left almost 6.5 TB free. I found an unmounted 1TB partition doing that.

Having had fast the 4790K@4.8GHz and slower e5620's@2.4GHz, narrow and wide threading, I can say a 5930K on an
X99 board will be way faster for you and heavy duty enough to give you a visceral twitch and still have lots of headroom
for the future.

The wide curved 34 inch monitor just gives you more screen real estate in one place and with a mount to put your other
screens above it just gives you more information at once.

Breathe_67 · Dec 27, 2015

Sancho_mic and frapport have some excellent advice in there. Just a minor addition to what Sancho_mic was saying. He's absolutely right that adding a second card wouldn't double the VRAM, but it's also not the same as just having a single card with 4GB. It's a little complicated to explain, but imagine that you have two boys pulling seashells out of a pair of magic buckets. Both buckets mirror each other, so that every shell pulled out disappears from both. However, the two boys don't have to pull out the same shell at the same time, they can pick and choose based on what is easiest. (Also, to really complete the analogy, one of the boys is a little slow) It's not the same as having a ton of VRAM, but it's a more efficient use of the memory bus speed.

Jack500 · Dec 27, 2015

OK, let's see if I can consolidate all this information...

1. Motherboard - LGA 2011 v3 (x99 chipset) Asus SABERTOOTH X99
Why? - "The X## series is considered an "enthusiast" chipset," "little more room to move around and some extra power for a little more money". "benefit of the more powerful CPUs" (ex. the 5820k is a 6-core, and the 6700 is a 4-core).

2. CPU: Intel Core i7-5930K

3. CPU Cooler - I'm thinking Thermalright Le Grand Macho (has anybody heard anything about this new cooler?)

4. RAM - G. Skill F4-2400C15Q-32GNT (32GB: 4x8GB)

5. Graphics Card - EVGA GTX 970 SuperSC ACX 2.0+ (I need 3 DisplayPorts)

6. Storage - I need a little more time to think about this.

Jack500 · Jan 3, 2016

Thank you everyone for all your helpful comments and advice! It is very much appreciative!

I'll learn more about M.2 and will most likely ask a question or two in the Storage forum. Hope you all have a wonderful New Year!

frapport · Jan 3, 2016

Good luck and be sure to report back, people want to know.

New Build - Please help? Need advice on specs, thanks!

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