Frankenstein HTPC - Bottleneck Analysis & GC Rec's

northtexas55693

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Feb 11, 2014
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My latest iteration, and my most stable/best working, yet still pretty poorly functioning HTPC is as follows:

CPU: AMD E2-Series E2-3200 2.4GHz Dual-Core Processor
Motherboard: Asus F1A75-M Micro ATX FM1 Motherboard
Memory: G.Skill Ares Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($39.79 @ OutletPC)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 500GB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($49.99 @ Directron)
Video Card: MSI Radeon HD 5450 1GB Video Card ($28.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Case: Cooler Master Elite 430 ATX Mid Tower Case ($44.98 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: Topower 500W ATX Power Supply ($28.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Optical Drive: LG GH24NSC0 DVD/CD Writer ($13.89 @ OutletPC)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 OEM 3-Pack (64-bit)
External Storage: Seagate Expansion 2TB External Hard Drive ($84.99 @ Amazon)
External Storage: Seagate Expansion 2TB External Hard Drive ($84.99 @ Amazon)


This is connected via the discrete GPU to an LG 55" via HDMI 1.3
Audio running on HDMI to a stereo amplifier system.
I play content (mostly movies and TV shows) off of my USB 3.0 drives connected directly to the comp with the latest VLC copy.
I do not want NAS right now.
Currently I do not use Kodi, or any other online service for content, but I would like to start doing so as I now have a decent VPN service.

I am starting to experience pretty bad pixelation, stuttering, and general poor playback on some of my movie files encoded with newer codecs and at high quality (true 1080p, not Yify stuff).
These same files, on a Boss comp, have no problem with playback using VLC, just onto a 29" monitor.

I have updated everything on this system, except the BIOS. All the components are in legacy support now with no new drivers for anything as of middle of last year. This did not fix the problem.

I put a good quality HDMI 2 cable on it, instead of the cheapo HDMI 1.1 that I was using, that didn't help the problem.

I know I could drop $500 - $800 and build a new, way better setup, but that is a no no right now as I just built a killer gaming/everyday rig (wife wouldn't be too happy with me)

That said, what is the bottleneck in my system that could be causing my video playback issues?

CPU upgrade is out of question as socket FM1 is no longer made as far as I can tell, plus it would be very pointless.
Mobo upgrade to a newer socket would work, but we are getting into the multiple hundreds of dollars range, again a no no.

GPU is the only upgrade item as far as I can tell, but from what I've read, this GPU should be able to handle most near 1080p playback.

Over on the AVS forum, a member said there will be an updated GTX750 released soon with HDMI 2 support and enhanced video decoding/codec support, but I can't find any mention of it.

I think the GC is the bottleneck, and getting a new GC with the latest connection ports (HDMI 2, etc), 2GB of GDDR3/5, and the latest hardware decoding/codec support; all for around $100-$150 is the answer.

Your thoughts?

 
Solution


W7, right. I kept skipping over that.

Most rips are H.264.

1) Codecs: You can use the tool "mediainfo" to find out the codecs used.
https://mediaarea.net/en/MediaInfo/Download

2) H.265 hardware acceleration - I don't have an H.265 hardware decoder so can't verify this. I do know that there is an HEVC option in the media...
GPU going bad ??

Try kodi mate , its a small install , it has its own independent video codecs & playback engine with hw acceleration.
If it struggles then your problem is hardware based as kodi will manage 20gb+ bluray rips on even a cheap amlogic android box with Mali GPU.
 

northtexas55693

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Feb 11, 2014
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I thought that might be the case at first.

However, I ruled that out (perhaps incorrectly), though since it plays older rips just fine, yet struggles with newer codecs/larger file sizes.
I read that as a HW bottleneck. Perhaps the GPU chipset (HD 5450), or the amount/type of GPU RAM (1GB/DDR3) is to blame?

I have my eye on building a home theater (4k TV/projector) this coming black Friday season, which is why I would like to space out the new HTPC build part by part over the months.

I want to make sure I have the latest connection standards now, so I don't face bandwidth issues in the future.

I know I don't need a gaming GC, but definitely need the latest HDMI & or Displayport standard (preferably 2x both of them if I can get it cheap).




 
Your problem seems to be graphics related, not cpu related.

Your 5450 is getting old.
One possibility is that it is starting to fail.
swapping it out for a GTX750 seems to me to be a good idea.
Do not pay much attention to the internal specs like gddr2/3/5 or even the amount of vram.
The specs will be appropriate to each card.

When it comes time to change the cpu, consider that your E2-3200 has a passmark rating of 1486 with a single thread rating of 824.
By today's standards, that is poor.
The lowest priced Intel skylake G4400($65) has a passmark rating of 3821, and a single thread rating of 1890.
And, the integrated graphics is stronger than your current discrete card.

 
Take out the graphics card for now, and just use the APU graphics.

If that works well enough for your video situation there's no need to upgrade anything.

Even if it works (no pixelation) but with stutter you've at least shown your HD5450 was the problem so in that case a different GPU makes sense, but get whatever's cheapest and does the job.

I have to go, but maybe check if H.265 is supported on the GTX750 or similar (but then an HD5450/6450 might cost $25 or so..)
 
More info..
I don't use VLC as it seems to periodically show poorly decoded video (on Windows but same on Linux).

I do know there are settings to enable hardware acceleration (GPU must have decoder to support it like H.264). That reduces the load on the CPU which for you is likely the cause of STUTTERING.

I guess you use Linux, so open a tool to monitor CPU usage. It should be easy to Google that depending on your distro. So open that, make sure both GRAPHS are showing (dual-core CPU) and monitor that whilst playing a video. If it's stuttering you should see CPU usage hit 100% on at least one of the cores, maybe both.

If hardware acceleration is OFF then turn it on (media player).

VLC confused me a bit, but there's TWO sections of relevance under "Tools->Preferences", Video and Input/Codec (on Windows now). I'd enable anything that looks like "acceleration" as well as disable the "postprocessing" and see how that affects CPU usage.

*The above also applies to buying a new GPU. If you aren't enabling hardware acceleration (MPEG2, H.264, VC1..) then it's all processed on the CPU.

Other:
Some devices can be set to DECODE the video and just STREAM the video to your HTPC. Basically your HTPC just reroutes it to the HDTV.

I have a WD MY CLOUD which is awesome as it just plugs into the router thus can be accessed by all devices wired, or wireless on or local network.

I haven't tested the streaming capability though.

*I had a WDTV Hub (so do my parents and sister) and it was perfect for playing video. There's another version (Elements?) with no hard drive but it won't play Netflix. It does however play every video/audio codec I have which is great (most other media players don't).

If a simple WDTV media player is all you need that might be a better choice since it's simple, has a remote and just works. I've got a WDTV Hub in the basement, a Samsung BluRay player in my office and a WDMY Cloud to distribute video (4TB plus a backup 4TB WD Elements).

For the WDTV Hub I just turn it on and navigate to the video I want and play it. Eezy peezy, though the pictures don't work (metadata won't download to remote unit like on a local USB or internal hard drive).

My Samsung player won't play everything, like most media players. In fact, some of my BD rips start but the audio drops out due to Cinavia audio watermark protection.

I don't want to use my PC, so I think I'll either get another WDTV media player, or investigate an inexpensive Intel x86 SoC solution and use KODI-Linux. I'd prefer it to handle Netflix but I have that on my Samsung player so it's not a deal breaker. I think H.265 and HDMI2 support to future proof would be good.

Summary:
I'm just throwing out some ideas. Basically it's hard to find an all-in-one solution that's ideal. Build a PC and the interface might not work (though Kodi-Linux or similar might be fine with a compatible remote).

Buying a video card might be needed for your PC, but then if that costs about the same as a MEDIA PLAYER that can serve you as well or better why bother?

Anyway, start with my advice about the CPU usage, hardware acceleration on/off and take it from there.
 
^ he's using win 7 mate .
Hw decoding is going to be non-existant if those rips are encoded as h265/hevc - & with high bitrate bluray rips they likely are.
H265 hw decoding in not supported at all on current gpu's within windows or Linux for some reason.
Deciding is going to be entirely software based & while its CPU based decoding is fairly efficient vlc is still massively inferior to kodi's engine IMO.

 


W7, right. I kept skipping over that.

Most rips are H.264.

1) Codecs: You can use the tool "mediainfo" to find out the codecs used.
https://mediaarea.net/en/MediaInfo/Download

2) H.265 hardware acceleration - I don't have an H.265 hardware decoder so can't verify this. I do know that there is an HEVC option in the media player for K-Lite.

So I'd need:
a) GPU with H.265/HEVC hardware decoder, and
b) media player with this option enabled in the settings

3) CPU usage:
I discussed this in my far too long comment above, but yeah I think his CPU is too weak. As I said he can test that. Here's some tests.. I forced VLC and K-Lite onto TWO cores but my other threads are still doing idle tasks so he's probably already using close to 20% at times in idle so you have to add that on. But..

1080p CPU results:
a) VLC ( no HW acceleration) - spikes to 50%

b) VLC (HW on) - spikes to 30%

c) K-Lite (no HW) - spikes to 25%

d) K-Lite (HW on) - spikes to 8%

A quick test, but on an i7-3770K at 4.2GHz that means VLC is guaranteed to be too much for HD content on his CPU at times.

So I'd suggest for now:
#1 - switch to K-Lite Standard
http://www.codecguide.com/download_k-lite_codec_pack_standard.htm

#2 - experiment while monitoring CPU usage with HW on and off (leave on unless problems)

#3 - don't buy a new GPU unless you can prove the artifacts are a fault of the HD5450, or that you need a new GPU because you can't decode certain video codecs you are using. It has:

"Support for H.264, VC-1, MPEG-2, and Adobe Flash"

MPEG2 is what DVD's use, and older converted files.

Other info:
The CONTAINER is the glue that holds the video and audio (and sometimes subtitles) together and doesn't add much to processing. If the player supports it (like DivX, MKV etc) then all you need for video hardware acceleration is that the video be using MPEG2, VC1 or H.264.

There are also NEWER versions of those codecs like H.264 (both PROFILE and LEVEL) which can make the hardware decoder not work, or work with errors.

You can use HANDBRAKE to convert. I use H.264, Main profile, Level 4.2 for compatibility (variable, 2-pass, etc).
 
Solution

northtexas55693

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Feb 11, 2014
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h265/HEVC are the ones I am having problems with, probably due to my using vlc software. Going to start working on the Kodi setup since multiple people say its the heat.

It seems the better torrent UL's are going toward h265 so this should be planned for by users for sure.

I have investigated simple media players, but dropped the idea when I realized a lot require a network connection and options are limited in how they run/interact with your files; something most nerds like myself hate.
Sure some people love PnP, but I love options/settings. (Yes, I know I run windows and linux is superior as far as options go.)
Not going to linux anytime soon so drop it there.

I currently run my HTPC w/o a connection when playing content on my portable drives.

I transfer files via USB thumb drive when needed.
The idea of that methodology being programs/files can't communicate with the outside when you open/play them if you don't have an internet connection.
Since I am going to be running over a VPN in the coming days, that won't be much of a problem though.

Given the above information in this discussion it seems that I would be better guided to wait and get a 4th Gen. i3/i5 and a MoBo that has HDMI 2.0 on board and leave the processing up to the CPU/software.

Don't waste time with getting a new GC to fix an effectively minor issue that will not be helped due to new encoding tech.

Thanks for the replies guys. Have a good one.