Should i return my Msi GTX 970 due to directX 12 and get R9 390 instead?

Hlc_88 · Feb 3, 2016

Should i return my Msi GTX 970 due DirectX 12 and get R9 390/390X instead?. It seems Nvidia GTX 970 is not fully support DirectX 12 because of it's Maxwell architecture design can not process Asynchronous compute for upcoming DirectX12 new games. Here is the article regarding this issue:

http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/213519-asynchronous-shading-amd-nvidia-and-dx12-what-we-know-so-far

My gaming rig:

Ultra M935 case
Amd Fx 6300
Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO
MSI 970A-G46
Ripjaws 8g ddr3 1600
MSI GTX 970 4GD5T OC (upgraded from Asus eah 6850)
Ocz Arc 100
Wd 10EZEX 1tb
Ocz Fatality 550w 80+

ak47jar3d · Feb 3, 2016

I wouldn't. Asynchronous shaders is controversy is about a game in beta than has yet be released. No other data exist stating that 970 is worse than 390 in any dx 12 games. Gtx 970 is better at 1080p and runs cooler than 390. 390 has more vram, performs better at 1440p and 4k but runs hotter.

ComputerSecurityGuy · Feb 3, 2016

The performance difference isn't enough to have it worth the bother. It is possible that the R9 390 will be a better DX12 card though. Early benchmarks would indicate it.

SchnauzerMIni · Feb 3, 2016

I don't know if 390 is going to be faster with DX 12, but with your current configuration I think 970 is better for you...

jerdle · Feb 3, 2016

if it was a free exchange i would get the 390 over the 970.

If it's going to cost you anything to swap them, it's not worth it.

renz496 · Feb 3, 2016

Then change back to 970 when games using FL11_3/FL12_1? So depending on games you will keep swapping cards.

17seconds · Feb 3, 2016

Ashes of the Singularity is a tech demo sponsored by AMD that is still in beta five months after that article was published. Predictably, it shows a minor advantage in the one and only aspect of DirectX 12 where AMD has an edge. Also predictably, the AMD fan community has taken off and run with this item, propping it up more than it deserves and misleading people who don't fully understand the situation.

There are other elements of DirectX 12_1 where Nvidia cards have capabilities of which AMD are incapable. Given that Nvidia holds 80% of the discreet GPU market, it's safe to assume that game developers are not going to begin coding in elements of DirectX 12 that will disadvantage the vast majority of gamers. It's far more likely that we'll see DirectX 12 games that exploit the strengths of the hardware that most people own, like the GTX 970, the single most popular video card, by far, of the past several years.

renz496 · Feb 4, 2016

Nvidia card did support async compute (mentioned by AoS as per their discussion with nvidia) but nvidia did not handle Async compute the same way AMD did. Even their definition of async compute probably different. Just think it like why mining is faster on radeon compared to geforce. The code that used with AoS was meant to run on radeon hardware. Now this is were people and even some developer got into heated discussion. AMD said their Async compute is part of DX12. Some dev said it might not be the case because it did not follow DX12 programming guide on how async compute should be handled. Because AMD claim so AoS dev most likely think nvidia hardware also handle async compute the same way. That's why they once mention about they probably read the spec (DX12) the wrong way.

And this is problem when you go low level. You want to optimize the performance? You need to cater for specific architecture. That's why to be honest i'm not that excited with DX12. But some people expect DX12 will magically solve all the problem that DX11 had.

jerdle · Feb 4, 2016

17seconds :

It was in alpha when that article was published, and is now in beta.

And since you point it out as the only game I of course have to counter... ARK Survival Evolved.

I always like to point out these two comments from a senior dev:

"Nvidia has nothing to do with DX12 except that they're way behind the curve in terms of GPU architecture when it comes to parallelization, which is where AMD excels. Which are some of the issues we have to overcome with its implementation."

Remember, ARK is an NVidia sponsored game. He also explicitly told the public why they wont release the DX12 version of the game. He said if "[it] was stable, right now, and made Nvidia cards run in parity with AMD cards, we would do it"

Shrugging away Ashes of the Singularity as a fluke and saying things like *NVidia is more popular thus DX12 games will be better designed for them* is looking unlikely.

renz496 · Feb 4, 2016

Unlikely? The fact that they able to convince ARK dev to delay DX12 patch already show nvidia regardless the game being sponsored or not. Now don't you think it is weird why most DX12 title being delayed?

jerdle · Feb 4, 2016

That shows that NVIDIA is using its muscle to hold some games back, not that it has the technology to utilize dx12 better.

Seems to me they are desperate to keep dx12 games from releasing until they have cards out that can actually match what amds have been capable of all along.

Maxwell users are going to get shafted in the process.

NVIDIA won't be able to maintain such a high market share with current practices if AMD is able to outperform and underprice them come dx12 and both new generations. Either pascal is going to have to deliver considerably better performance in dx12 to match GCN/Polaris, or GeForces will be the value brand for a change. Now that is a weird thought.

17seconds · Feb 4, 2016

Seems those quotes from the ARK dev are hard to find on-line. Mind posting a link?

king3pj · Feb 4, 2016

Everyone keeps worrying about DirectX 12 but I still don't own a single game that supports it and I am someone who buys a ton of games.

I bought into the DirectX 12 hype too but I'm starting to get the feeling that by the time a majority of mainstream games start supporting it those of us who like high end gaming PCs will be looking to replace our current cards anyways.

jerdle · Feb 4, 2016

17seconds :

He posted them during an Ask Me Anything and in response to another comment.

https://www.reddit.com/r/playark/comments/3xhxqm/ark_survival_evolved_dev_team_ama/
https://www.reddit.com/r/playark/comments/3r7utd/wild_card_fix_the_god_damn_cheating_on_tournaments/

renz496 · Feb 4, 2016

That shows that NVIDIA is using its muscle to hold some games back, not that it has the technology to utilize dx12 better.

and did you think AMD did better than nvidia when their hardware also lack for certain feature in DX12? this two developer already talking about using feature that is not available on current Radeon Hardware:
http://www.dsogaming.com/news/just-cause-3-engine-already-capable-of-supporting-dx12-pc-exclusive-dx12-features-revealed/
http://www.dsogaming.com/news/codemasters-ego-engine-4-0-supports-dx12-raster-ordered-views-conservative-rasterization/
http://www.anandtech.com/show/8544/microsoft-details-direct3d-113-12-new-features

Seems to me they are desperate to keep dx12 games from releasing until they have cards out that can actually match what amds have been capable of all along.

either that or DX12 is not make everything become better than DX11 that many like to believe. remember graphical feature wise everything that can be done on DX12 can also be done with DX11. if DX11 did not pose any bottleneck to your game it might be better to stay with DX11 rather than causing you to shoot yourself in the foot with DX12.

NVIDIA won't be able to maintain such a high market share with current practices if AMD is able to outperform and underprice them come dx12 and both new generations. Either pascal is going to have to deliver considerably better performance in dx12 to match GCN/Polaris, or GeForces will be the value brand for a change. Now that is a weird thought.

value brand? haha. it won't be so easy for AMD to kick nvidia. before they actually regain much of their market share nvidia can initiate price war. it is something that AMD want to avoid as much as possible. especially with their current financial situation. but all this will not going to matter if pascal can properly using async compute. and don't think GCN will have advantage over maxwell either. because async compute is not mandatory in DX12 just like tessellation is not needed for a game to be DX11 game. so just because the game is DX12 then it is automatic win for AMD. so for now what DX12 feature being use in game probably depend which company 'sponsored' the game.

jerdle · Feb 4, 2016

If NVIDIA initiates a price war they're going value brand

(thus leaving my statement intact. Nvidia improves dx12 performance relative AMD or starts competing on having lower prices for the same tier card.)

renz496 · Feb 4, 2016

Not really. If you look at past history you will know how nvidia initiate price war while at the same time still retain their 'premium'. They usually attack in the middle while keeping their top bracket intact as premium. That's why releasing later would benefit nvidia more. If they know AMD performance they can come up something that is faster than AMD fastest. If they have the fastest they can play their premium game. 580 not that significantly faster over 6970 but people have no problem buying 580 at $499 vs 6970 at $389. And despite that the market share swing back to nvidia favor when AMD almost topple nvidia in term of matket share back in 2010

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