External "UPS" battery advice

a cooperator · Feb 6, 2016

Hi,

But in short, an UPS is essentially a battery .
An external battery that you plug into the outlet, then plug the computer to it. When there is electrical supply it charges its internal batteries and while also powering the computer. When power goes out, it uses the battery to continue providing power the computer for a few minutes. While this energy is not enough for continuing normal work, it's sufficient to let you save whatever you're doing and properly shut the system down. The computer continues receiving power even after the blackout.

Basically, the whole city goes dark but your computer will live for 10/15 minutes more, and in that time you can shut down everything as it should instead of being abruptly powered off.

My questions are :

1- I know "UPS" battery is plugged into the outlet and plug the computer to it. When there is electrical supply it charges its internal batteries and while also powering the computer. So, the External "UPS" battery will be always connected to outlet regardless of there is electrical supply or not(i.e. if the electricity was cut off and gone on again, then no need to manually unplug the UPS from the outlet, and let the computer plugged to outlet) .

2- I see that the largest UPS is 865 Watts /1500 VA.
How long can a larger UPS battery be lasting until it drains its power/charge while it is disconnected from the outlet, or there is no electrical supply, and while also powering one or more devices draining the power of that UPS?

GhislainG · Feb 6, 2016

It depends on the load. Weeks with no load, a few minutes with maximum load. Each UPS manufacturer provides that info.

Spectre694 · Feb 6, 2016

1) No the UPS will not output power to the wall only the outlets on it.

2) ya that's largest common size for a 15amp circuit. The run time though is very much dependent on the load. Usually the manufacturer will quote a run time at 50 and 100 percent of load.

For example my UPS a 1500VA APC will run like 45-60 min or so with my computer at idle but I run a benchmark and load it up then it's 10-15 min

a cooperator · Feb 6, 2016

Spectre694 :

Thanks a lot,

Could you please be a little bit more clear here?
I mean that while "UPS" battery is plugged into the outlet and plug the computer to it. When there is electrical supply it charges its internal batteries and while also powering the computer. Then, suddenly, the electricity cut off for about six hours, and then went on. So, there is no need to unplug my device from the UPS battery, and let them directly be plugged and powered by main supply power(outlet).

Spectre694 :

1- 60 minutes is not enough at all, and even the main internal 6-cell battery(103 Whr, 10.8 V, and 9.6 Ah) of a notebook continues powering a notebook for a bout three hours while notebook is in a load and active mode. What about the external UPS battery which must be lasting much longer than the main internal 6-cell or 9-cell or even 12-cell battery. I know that electricity is cut off for about seven hours in my own country Yemen. However, I was told by some people in my own country with using a track to keep their routers on. They told me a kind of external batteries, I think like UPS, and that UPS continue powering their devices(Routers, WiFi and Repeaters, and all other devices) used in establishing their public leased networks.

3- I think I can plug more than one device to the UPS. I am right, am I not?

Spectre694 · Feb 6, 2016

To clarify number one if you have a say a computer plugged in and lose power then the UPS will automatically begin supplying battery power to the computer until either it runs out of battery or the line power comes back and it switches to line power again. Once back on line power it will automatically begin charging the battery. You can plug as many things as you want so long as you don't go over it's rated capacity.

These are not the same as the battery in your laptop so they cannot be directly compared. Unlike your notebook (L-ion) UPS are powered by sealed lead-acid batteries (like a car battery) and are generally designed for the occasional short term outage or for use until a generator kicks on for long term or the system is shut down. Your laptop is also outputting in the case of that 10.8V cell in your post 10.8Volts. In a UPS though 120 Volts (220 if that's what you use) are being outputted from typically a few 12V batteries.

Now like a 1500VA is typically rated 60min @ 100 watts but a router typically uses 5W so a few of those could conceivably run 7 hours on one but they aren't rated at that low so IDK for sure.

Now of course if you wanted to be able to run your computer for 7 hours off mains power then you'll likely need a larger 3 phase unit. Besides the fairly large cost of a unit like that lead-acid batteries do not care to be cycled very often so you'd replace the batteries a fair bit or have to significantly over-spec the UPS. In that case it would be cheaper and easier to get a smaller UPS and pair it with a small generator.

If I wasn't clear let me know sometimes I skip things I already know that others might not.

a cooperator · Feb 9, 2016

Spectre694 :

Thanks a lot,
Since almost all batteries should have either 10.8V (11.1V) or 14.4V (14.8V) on the label. WHr divided by amperage is Volt. for example, 48whr / 4.4A (4400mah) is roughly 10.8V.

1- Watts= Amps x Volts,
Amps = milliamperage ÷ 1000

So, a 12-cell battery with Capacity: 9600mAh(milliamperage hour), and Voltage:10.8V: can be calculated as follows:
9600mAh ÷ 1000 = 9.6Ah
Whr = Ah X Volts = 9.6Ah x 10.8V= 103.68Whr

However, In my maintenance manual, these battery replacements:::
9-cell, 100-Whr, 3.00-Ah Li-ion battery (636631-001) ---> (100Whr ÷ 3.00Ah = 33.3V
6-cell, 62-Whr, 2.80-Ah Li-ion battery(593562-001)---> (62Whr ÷ 2.80Ah = 22.14V
6-cell, 55-Whr, 2.55-Ah Li-ion battery(593554-00)----> ( 55Whr ÷ 2.55Ah =21.56 V

However, in my maintenance manual, Operating voltage:
18.5 V dc @ 3.5 A – 65 W [65W÷3.5A=18.5 Volts]
19 V dc @ 4.74 A – 90 W [90W÷4.74 A=18.987 Volts]
18.5 V dc @ 6.5 A – 120 W [120W÷6.5 A=18.46 Volts]

Also, on the battery cabinet, only 18.5 V ___ 6.5 A is written, which I think is 120.25Whr.

As a result,
1- With respect to a laptop battery, as long as there input of 100- 240V, and output of 18.5 V ___ 6.5 A is written, which I think is 120.25Whr, on my AC adapter charger, I think that there is output of a battery would be the same 18.5 V ___ 6.5 A, which I think is 120.25Whr.

2- However, In my maintenance manual, there are other AC adapter charger with other Operating voltage can be supported: (output is : )
18.5 V dc @ 3.5 A – 65 W [65W÷3.5A=18.5 Volts]
19 V dc @ 4.74 A – 90 W [90W÷4.74 A=18.987 Volts]

3- There are other notebook batteries with different capacities, and Voltages:::
Description------------------------------------------------------------
12-cell battery, 9600mAh, and Voltage:10.8V) --- > 9600 x 10.8 = 103.3Whr
9-cell, 100-Whr, 3.00-Ah Li-ion battery (636631-001) ---> (100Whr ÷ 3.00Ah = 33.3V
9-cell, 100-Whr, 3.00-Ah Li-ion battery ---> (100Whr ÷ 3.00Ah = 33.3V
6-cell, 62-Whr, 2.80-Ah Li-ion battery ---> (62Whr ÷ 2.80Ah = 22.14V
6-cell, 55-Whr, 2.55-Ah Li-ion battery----> ( 55Whr ÷ 2.55Ah =21.56 V

4- With respect to USP batteries, I think the input and output is always 120 Volts (or 100- 240V) in my case since I use 220V)

5- Why have you said "are being outputted from typically a few 12V batteries" In "a UPS though 120 Volts (220 if that's what you use) are being outputted from typically a few 12V batteries."

Spectre694 :

What you meant with "a smaller UPS and pair it with a small generator." What is "pair it with a small generator."
How to get to get a smaller UPS and pair it with a small generator.

giantbucket · Feb 9, 2016

some of these posts are too long...

1 - you can connect as many devices to the UPS as you want as long as you don't exceed the capacity

2 - batteries used in a UPS are NOT the same as in a car. a car battery is meant for very high current for a short time (starter motor, easily 100A), whereas UPS battery is same as emergency lighting in an office building which is lower current for a long time. different build inside.

3 - a UPS units VA or W rating has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING AT ALL to do with how LONG it will run. capacity is ONLY dependent on how many batteries you have. you can easily buy more batteries to extend the run time of a 350W UPS for 20 hours if you want. the UPS might only come with one battery to give you 20min of run time (at 50% capacity), but you can wire in extra batteries in parallel to extend that if you want.

4 - laptop components are designed and chosen for a much lower power use than a desktop computer BECAUSE they often run just from a battery.

5 - all UPS batteries are 12V, but some UPS units connect the batteries in series to make 24V which makes it easier for high-power use (each battery provides less current since the system uses a higher voltage)

6 - most UPS don't use the battery ALL THE TIME. they usually have an electronic switch inside that connects the battery to the system when main power goes out.

7 - a UPS uses a step-up converter to take the 12V or 24V from the battery pack and provide you with 120V AC or 240V AC. some better UPS units also include an auto-adjuster so that when main power is weak, it can "bump up" the output to always keep it at 120 (or 240). that's called Line Regulation.

8 - the battery's capacity is reduced significantly as you try to pull more current out of it. a 10Ah battery has 10Ah of capacity only if you're pulling 2A or less from it. if you try to pull 10A from it, it will NOT last 1hr - it'll be 30min at best, and probably only 15min. if you look at performance graphs, you'll see discharge rates of C, C/2, C/10, etc. C = Capacity (10Ah for example).

9 - keep your questions short and to the point!

a cooperator · Feb 10, 2016

giantbucket :

Thanks a lot,
My points are quite a lot, but all of them need shot answers, I think.

Excellent, and Spot on "a UPS units VA or W rating has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING AT ALL to do with how LONG it will run. capacity is ONLY dependent on how many batteries you have. you can easily buy more batteries to extend the run time of a 350W UPS for 20 hours if you want. the UPS might only come with one battery to give you 20min of run time (at 50% capacity), but you can wire in extra batteries in parallel to extend that if you want."

1- When you said "buy more batteries and the UPS might only come with one battery to give you 20min of run time (at 50% capacity), but you can wire in extra batteries in parallel to extend that if you want.", I thought of "There are USP batteries can be sold individually as batteries without their USP tray" Or otherwise, I would only purchase a 350W UPS, and no need to purchase more batteries?

2- Even if I purchased more than more batteries to extend the run time of a 350W UPS, then how can I combine their output to give me the run time of a 350W UPS(How to wire in extra batteries in parallel to extend)? Are there an USP tray,(cabinet) accommodating more than battery.

3- Are there many outlet outputs available on the tray of UPS, so I can connect as many devices to the UPS.

4- How to google to "UPS units also including an auto-adjuster" what should I type in the google?

5- Spot on "most UPS don't use the battery ALL THE TIME. they usually have an electronic switch inside that connects the battery to the system when main power goes out." You think that Such a UPS can automatically switched to the battery if main power goes out, and automatically disconnect the battery from the system when main power goes on back? This is very good. How to google such a UPS?

6- When you said "all UPS batteries are 12V, but some UPS units connect the batteries in series to make 24V which makes it easier for high-power use (each battery provides less current since the system uses a higher voltage)" I think any battery power can measured with V, Ah, and Whr. However, you only said Voltage?

How did you make this calculation? What rule did you follow to get "a 10Ah battery has 10Ah of capacity only if you're pulling 2A or less from it. if you try to pull 10A from it, it will NOT last 1hr - it'll be 30min at best, and probably only 15min."

As an estimate calculation, and while notebook is active and is powered by one of batteries below, how long will a battery last powering a notebook if its capacities are as follows:

12-cell battery, 9600mAh Li-ion battery --- > 103.3Whr ÷ 9.6Ah =10.8V
9-cell, 100-Whr, 3.00-Ah Li-ion battery ---> 100Whr ÷ 3.00Ah = 33.3V
9-cell, 100-Whr, 3.00-Ah Li-ion battery ---> 100Whr ÷ 3.00Ah = 33.3V
6-cell, 62-Whr, 2.80-Ah Li-ion battery ---> 62Whr ÷ 2.80Ah = 22.14V
6-cell, 55-Whr, 2.55-Ah Li-ion battery----> (55Whr ÷ 2.55Ah =21.56 V

giantbucket · Feb 10, 2016

1 - yes, you can always buy separate batteries, BUT for most UPS units you would have to hack into the wiring to add the extras. only some UPS units have dedicated connectors on the back for an external battery pack.

2 - kind of the same. for most units, you buy just the batteries and wire them up yourself. looks ugly but works.

3 - most UPS units have at least 4 output sockets, and if you are using low-power devices like a router or modem, you can safely use a power bar as well.

4 - Line Regulating (or Regulation)

5 - most plain UPS work like that. it's the simplest method. more fancy ones either always have the battery connected, or always run ONLY from the battery even when wall power is charging the battery.

6 - a battery is sold based on Ah rating, but they are almost always 12V batteries. a high-power load (1200W for example) would pull 100A from a 12V battery pack, and that's a lot of current not just for the batteries but also for the wires. the same 1200W load would only pull 50A from a 24V battery pack which means the wires don't need to be so huge

7 - not sure i understand the question. run time is based on discharge rate and capacity (and type of battery). for the SLA (sealed lead acid) batteries used in a UPS, there are graphs showing actual capacity versus discharge rate. this is where you will see "C" and "C/2" and "C/10"

C = if you discharge a 7Ah battery at 7A. in this case, the math says you get 1hr of run time but in reality you might only get 30min
C/2 = if you discharge a 7Ah battery at 3.5A. in this case, the math says you get 2hr of run time but in reality you might only get 1.5hr
C/10 = if you discharge a 7Ah battery at 0.7A. in this case, the math says you get 10hr of run time but in reality you might only get 9.95hr

the lower the discharge rate, the closer the REAL capacity (and runtime) is to the RATED capacity and runtime

a cooperator · Feb 10, 2016

giantbucket :

Thanks a lot,

1- I have never ever come across a notebook battery with: 100A, 12V which will give 1200W.
All batteries, I have come across are:
12-cell battery, 9600mAh Li-ion battery --- > 103.3Whr ÷ 9.6Ah =10.8V
9-cell, 100-Whr, 3.00-Ah Li-ion battery ---> 100Whr ÷ 3.00Ah = 33.3V
9-cell, 100-Whr, 3.00-Ah Li-ion battery ---> 100Whr ÷ 3.00Ah = 33.3V
6-cell, 62-Whr, 2.80-Ah Li-ion battery ---> 62Whr ÷ 2.80Ah = 22.14V
6-cell, 55-Whr, 2.55-Ah Li-ion battery----> 55Whr ÷ 2.55Ah =21.56 V

2- How did you make this calculation "a 10Ah battery has 10Ah of capacity only if you're pulling 2A or less from it. if you try to pull 10A from it, it will NOT last 1hr - it'll be 30min at best, and probably only 15min."? What rule did you follow to get

As an estimate calculation, and while notebook is active and is powered by one of the batteries below, how long will a battery last powering a notebook if the capacities are as follows:

12-cell battery, 9600mAh Li-ion battery --- > 103.3Whr ÷ 9.6Ah =10.8V
9-cell, 100-Whr, 3.00-Ah Li-ion battery ---> 100Whr ÷ 3.00Ah = 33.3V
9-cell, 100-Whr, 3.00-Ah Li-ion battery ---> 100Whr ÷ 3.00Ah = 33.3V
6-cell, 62-Whr, 2.80-Ah Li-ion battery ---> 62Whr ÷ 2.80Ah = 22.14V
6-cell, 55-Whr, 2.55-Ah Li-ion battery----> 55Whr ÷ 2.55Ah =21.56 V

3- As you see the voltage, capacity, and rating for all the batteries above are different from each other, How to know that a notebook battery would be supported(will work on my laptop) by my notebook based on Voltage, Ah rating , what can I check before purchasing it. Or any notebook battery can work on my notebook regradless of Ah, V, and W. NOTE: I am not asking about the spare part number, I know that any battery should be with the same spare part number to be working on a notebook

giantbucket · Feb 10, 2016

i'm confused... are you talking about a UPS battery (which is always 12V pack, SLA type), or are you talking about a laptop/notebook battery (which can be from 9.6V to 20V or more, and is usually Lithium type)...?

different battery types (different "chemistry") will behave differently when you try to discharge them, and none are perfectly 'by the math'. i don't know enough about Lithium battery types to give you much advice, since the thread is about UPS and those are almost always SLA which i do understand.

a cooperator · Feb 10, 2016

giantbucket :

Thanks a lot,

Could you please understand me.

1- I think any battery power is measured by V, A, with which I can get the 'W'. Even a UPS battery can have a voltage, Amber(A), and W. So, why have you said that UPS is always 12V. Where is the A, and W.

2- With respect to UPS battery, How did you make this calculation "a 10Ah battery has 10Ah of capacity only if you're pulling 2A or less from it. if you try to pull 10A from it, it will NOT last 1hr - it'll be 30min at best, and probably only 15min."? What rule did you follow to get

3- With respect to a notebook battery, I have never ever come across a notebook battery with: 100A, 12V which will give 1200W. All batteries, I have come across are:
12-cell battery, 9600mAh Li-ion battery --- > 103.3Whr ÷ 9.6Ah =10.8V
9-cell, 100-Whr, 3.00-Ah Li-ion battery ---> 100Whr ÷ 3.00Ah = 33.3V
9-cell, 100-Whr, 3.00-Ah Li-ion battery ---> 100Whr ÷ 3.00Ah = 33.3V
6-cell, 62-Whr, 2.80-Ah Li-ion battery ---> 62Whr ÷ 2.80Ah = 22.14V
6-cell, 55-Whr, 2.55-Ah Li-ion battery----> 55Whr ÷ 2.55Ah =21.56 V

4- With a notebook battery, how will you make a calculation as you did in the # 2 "a 10Ah battery has 10Ah of capacity only if you're pulling 2A or less from it. if you try to pull 10A from it, it will NOT last 1hr - it'll be 30min at best, and probably only 15min."?

As an estimate calculation, and while notebook is active and is powered by one of the batteries below, how long will a notebook battery last powering a notebook if the capacities are as follows:

12-cell battery, 9600mAh Li-ion battery --- > 103.3Whr ÷ 9.6Ah =10.8V
9-cell, 100-Whr, 3.00-Ah Li-ion battery ---> 100Whr ÷ 3.00Ah = 33.3V
9-cell, 100-Whr, 3.00-Ah Li-ion battery ---> 100Whr ÷ 3.00Ah = 33.3V
6-cell, 62-Whr, 2.80-Ah Li-ion battery ---> 62Whr ÷ 2.80Ah = 22.14V
6-cell, 55-Whr, 2.55-Ah Li-ion battery----> 55Whr ÷ 2.55Ah =21.56 V

3- As you see the voltage, capacity, and rating for all the batteries above are different from each other, How to know that a notebook battery would be supported(will work on my laptop) by my notebook based on Voltage, Ah rating , what can I check before purchasing it. Or any notebook battery can work on my notebook regradless of Ah, V, and W. NOTE: I am not asking about the spare part number, I know that any battery should be with the same spare part number to be working on a notebook

giantbucket · Feb 10, 2016

1 - nearly all UPS batteries are built around 12V SLA battery packs. that's just the way it is.

2 - load charts as i indicated before

3 - we weren't talking notebook batteries at all. we were talking UPS batteries. different discussion. want to talk notebook batteries? new thread with a DIFFERENT title that matches what you actually DO want to talk about

4 - again, math doesn't mean much in the real world. use discharge tables / graphs / charts.

3 (again?) - different discussion, has nothing to do with UPS batteries. open a separate thread.

a cooperator · Feb 11, 2016

giantbucket :

Thanks a lot,

1- you keep asking me to check and load tables / graphs / charts. Where can I find them. And how to load it?

2- Could you suggest and send a link of a good UPS battery sold at any online sellers, preferred eBay.com to able to purchase.

3- Yes, I had started a link of notebook batteries, but no replies to my points asked.
http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-2911361/pavilion-notebook-battery-replacement-advice.html

giantbucket · Feb 11, 2016

1 - https://www.google.ca/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=sla%20discharge%20curve
http://www.power-sonic.com/images/powersonic/technical/1277751263_20100627-TechManual-Lo.pdf pages 5-8

2 - depends where you want to ship to. for canada/usa there's a few online stores. in yemen (that's where you are?) there is likely a local place. these batteries are HEAVY so shipping is always going to be expensive.

a cooperator · Feb 11, 2016

giantbucket :

Thanks a lot,

1- By the way, how to know that "UPS battery not using the battery ALL THE TIME. they usually have an electronic switch inside that connects the battery to the system when main power goes out.". What should I see in their features?

2- By the way, the highest UPS battery can power a TV, and lightings (such as, bulb)

3- No problem with where to ship them since I have a friend of mine residing in Saudi Arabia. That friend of mine has US address and UK address connected to his Saudi Arabia address via shipment forwarding service . However, the problem is with that batteries are heavy so shipping is always going to be expensive.

There are no local stores in Yemen selling good UPS batteries with the features you said (Line Regulation and UPS not using the battery ALL THE TIME. they usually have an electronic switch inside that connects the battery to the system when main power goes out)

My friend residing in the Saudi Arabia registered his US address and UK address connected to his National Address in Saudi Arabia via Wasel Alami Service available in Saudi Arabia. So, I want to use his US address or UK address to let my batteries shipped to while purchasing, and I will pay with my Card billing address in Yemen? However, the shipping bill to be issued according to the weight of merchandis would be high, I think, since batteries are heavy.

So, I can use my friend's US address OR UK address to get my item shipped to, and then my Saudi Post will forward them to my friend's home address in Saudi Arabia. After that, my friend will send them to Yemen.
So, could you send any link of a good UPS batteries at eBay.com?

How to get the Service?
1- You should be a subscriber to the National Address service.
2- You will automatically get a free of charge overseas address in US and UK

How to use Wasel Alami Service?:
1- When you buy any merchandise through an online shopping store (ex: eBay.com, amazon.com)
2- Register your Wasel Alami Address in the US & UK online shopping stores.
3- eBay.com will be sending your merchandise to your registered Wasel Alami Address
4- When your merchandise arrives to your Wasel Alami address in USA or UK Saudi Post will forward it to your home address in KSA
Note: Please note that the shipping paid value during purchase process is for delivery to the address in that country only and does not cover the cost of shipping to Saudi Arabia. You should not select the (pay at delivery) option in order to avoid returning the purchases to their source.

How to pay shipping charges?
1- We will issue a shipping bill according to the weight of merchandis.
2- When your purchases arrive to your Wasel Alami overseas address in any of the specified countries.
3- You need to submit the amount using SADAD service
4- You will receive an SMS to your mobile or email to notify you with the amount due.

Note: In case of incapability to receive these messages and if the goods remain standing for certain period of time (NEED TO SPECIFY THE TIME), Saudi Post will contact you to pay the bill so that the merchandise may be shipped to your home address in Saudi Arabia.

giantbucket · Feb 11, 2016

1 - every normal UPS units (the unit, not the battery inside) works like that, so there's no specific feature to look for. it's there by default on all affordable units. some of the better affordable units will specify a switch-over time of 4ms or something in that range. even if they don't specify it, there's a switch inside to do it.

2 - i live in canada, so i've bought from http://www.batterybuyer.com/ and http://excessups.com/

a cooperator · Feb 11, 2016

giantbucket :

Thanks a lot,

1- You think I don't check any features in the description of a UPS before purchasing to know if it has line regulation, and it is not using the battery ALL THE TIME. they usually have an electronic switch inside that connects the battery to the system when main power goes out..

2- By the way, the highest UPS battery can power a TV, and lightings (such as, bulb)

3- In fact, I'll will have to be using that Freight forwarding and consolidation service(Freight forwarders and consolidators) called Wasel Alami service only available to those in Saudi Arabia for two reasons:
The first one is that no shipping service can be reachable to Yemen right now due to the political issues.

The second one is I want to benefit from the local shipping fee, so I will not pay for international shipping fee when purchasing items and let them shipped to the US or the UK.

However, that Wasel Alami service has only two specific country address, the US, and UK. So, if I purchase from Cananda, then I will face the same problem with shipping to Yemen.
So, when purchasing from Canada, I will need to let item be shipped to either the US address or UK address, then they will be forwarded to the my friend's home address in Saudi Arabia by the Saudi Post. Thus, I will ont benefit from the Wasel Alami service since I will pay for international shipping fee to move the items from Canada to the US or UK address.

a cooperator · Feb 15, 2016

giantbucket :

Thanks a lot,

You said " a UPS units VA or W rating has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING AT ALL to do with how LONG it will run. capacity is ONLY dependent on how many batteries you have. you can easily buy more batteries to extend the run time of a 350W UPS for 20 hours if you want. the UPS might only come with one battery to give you 20min of run time (at 50% capacity), but you can wire in extra batteries in parallel to extend that if you want."

1- In local store, I found UPS system is a standalone part from battery.
*SINEWAVE UPS: SW720, SW950m SW1125, SW1650, SW 2000" External UPS battery systems with [/b]
Single Battery(12V) system
SW720, SW950, SW1125

Double Battery(24V) system
SW1650, SW 2000

2- The UPS doesn't come with any battery to give me 20min of run time.
The battery is not part of UPS battery system. I.e. the External UPS battery systems is completely separately from the battery. Even the manufacturer of battery is different than manufacturer of UPS system. The UPS system has its own user's manual, however, the battery doesn't have user's manual at all. If I was right with looking for Nippotec External Battery UPS SW1125, this this is a link of it

External UPS battery systems is made of India.
However, battery is made of China.

So, as the USP system doesn't have any battery associated with it, if I want a battery, I must purchase a separate battery which then can be wired to the UPS system.

3- The battery can be charged by UPS system, and then UPS system can get its power from the battery, and inverts the 12V into standard: 100V - 300V/Narrow: 180-260V)

4- There is tip written on the battery cover '100Amp/10 hour'. However, I don't know as to what '100Amb/10 hour' is.(how to calculate that?)

5- You said "most UPS don't use the battery ALL THE TIME. they usually have an electronic switch inside that connects the battery to the system when main power goes out." However, I don't see any statement telling me as you said. I only found that "Switching from Mains to UPS and from UPS to main" is ----- Automatic." in the technical specifications for all UPS models: SINEWAVE UPS: SW720, SW950m SW1125, SW1650, SW 2000"

6- I didn't see any line regulation in in the technical specifications for all UPS models: SINEWAVE UPS: SW720, SW950m SW1125, SW1650, SW 2000"

7- the price for a Single Battery(12V) UPS system with model SW1125 is sold for $169.8
The price for a Single Battery(12V) -- 100A/10 Hours is sold for $115.3
You think 169+115 = $284 is a reasonable price for a UPS system, and a battery?????

a cooperator · Feb 20, 2016

giantbucket :

Could you please take some more of your precious time out to reply to my final points in my previous post?

giantbucket · Feb 22, 2016

things must be sold differently in your area. over here in north america, a UPS system for a regular consumer is sold as the unit WITH a battery, and prices range from $50 to $250 for most types. the more expensive ones can supply more power and have more batteries for longer run-time, but that's mostly it. a UPS sold without a battery is kind of useless, but it's possible. seems stupid to sell it separately since the battery is the main part of the UPS system!

the price you showed for a battery seems OK, but the UPS system is a bit much if it doesn't even include a battery.

if a UPS doesn't specify line regulation, it might not have it. it doesn't need to specify switch-over since it does that by definition.

batteries don't need manuals (it's just a battery), but they should specify an Amp-Hour rating (like 100Ahr). if it specifies 100A / 10hr, then it might be a 100Ahr battery that's supposed to be used for a 10A load (to give it a 10hr discharge time). that's quite common - you would NOT use a 100Ahr battery if you need to pull 100Amps from it, you'll kill it VERY quickly. run a battery at 1/10th of its rated capacity to get a good lifetime out of it. that's C/10. the lower the better, so C/20 is even better.

this means that if you need to supply 400W to your computer, then a 12V battery pack has to supply 400/12=33Amps. if you buy a 35Ahr battery, it'll get killed too quickly and it will NOT last 1hr. you should buy a 100Ahr battery at least.

all batteries have an Amp-Hour (Ahr) rating somewhere.

a cooperator · Feb 23, 2016

giantbucket :

Thanks a lot,

1- NOTE: Battery is only charged by 12V by UPS system which will be connected/plugged to main power supply.
So, when there is uninterupted power, then UPS system will be inverting the battery power from 12V into the standrad "100V ~ 300V, Narrow 180V ~260V"
As a result, why have you devided 400W over 12V to get 33Amps? if I need to supply 400W to my computer, then a 12V battery pack has to supply 400/12=33Amps"

2- If I should buy a 100Ahr battery, then how long will it last? According to your math '400W/12V=33Amps', then if I think a 100Ahr battery will last (100 Amps/33Amps = 3 hours. if I want to pull/supply 400W to my computer?

3- You said "but they should specify an Amp-Hour rating (like 100Ahr). if it specifies 100A / 10hr, then it might be a 100Ahr battery that's supposed to be used for a 10A load (to give it a 10hr discharge time). that's quite common"
I think '100A/10hr' means battery will last 10 hours (100A/10hours = 10 hours). However, you said " if it specifies 100A / 10hr, then it might be a 100Ahr battery". How might "100A/10hr" be a 100Ahr? How could your calculated it? If I want to supply 400W for my computer from 100A/10hr, and accordnig to your math '400W/12V=33Amps', then 100Amps/33Amps = 3 hours. So, "100A/ 10hr" cannot be true(100Ambs cannot be lasting 10 hours) if I want to pull more than 10Ams/hour from it. since when did your math, I found a 100Ams only last 3 hours with pulling 33Amps from it?

4- This is strange. I have never seen ' a 35Ahr battery' . I only saw a 100Ahr battery. I think the 100Amp/10 hour' battery I saw is 100Ahr battery?

5- I really googled the UPS system, and the Battery, but I didn't find the same kind on the internet. This is strange.
Although I googled with these wordings:

From the User's Manual::

NIPPOTEC Externeal Battery UPS
Intelli Pure SINEWAVE Technology - Made in India.
Charging current: 10AMP - 14AMP
Instrument Description - Externeal Battery UPS:
Single Battery(12V) system
SW720, SW950, SW1125

Double Battery(24V) system
SW1650, SW 2000

SN No: 15FDMHFAD10201

6- In the Technical Specificantions are as below: "Output Voltage on USP mode 210V ± 10%". is strange.
I think output Voltage on USP mode must be 220V(same as the input) as long as my goverment main line is provided in 220V. Or otherwise, my devices(laptop, desktop) connected to UPS system, requiring a 220V, will damage ?

Model
SINWAVE UPS: SW720 / SW950 / SW1125 /SW1650 / SW 2000
Input Voltage
100V~300V(standard input voltage range)

180V~260V(Narrow input voltage range)
Output Voltage on Mains mode
Same as input
Output Voltage on USP mode
210V ± 10%
Output frequency of UPS mode
50 Hz ± 0.1 Hz
Switching from Mains to UPS and from UPS to mains
Automatic
Output Waveform on Mains mode
Same as input
Output Waveform on UPS mode
PURE SINE WAVE
Battery charging current
Constant charging approx 10% of the rated battery current in Ah
Charger
Power Factor controlled Boost Technology
Efficiency
> 80%
UPS Overload/UPS short circuit
110% / 300%
USP Transfer Time
≤ 15 msec.
Technology
Digital Signal Controller(DSC) Based Intelligent Control Design
Auto Rest Feature
Yes

7- the battery is sold with made in China. But, I haven't found it on the internet. I haven't seen any company name on it.

8-as long as the price for a UPS system with model SW1125 is sold for $169.8 and the price for a Single Battery(12V) -- 100A/10 Hours is sold for $115.3. I think 169+115 = $284 is NOT reasonable price for a UPS system, and a battery?????

As a result, What about purchasing a generator with that price. At least the generator will work on diesel or petrol and can itself be generating power. However, the UPS equipment can only save/charge the battery with power, and then can invert power from the battery from 12V into 220V.

5- I noticed the UPS equipment is very large, and even the battery is so. So, these two pieces of equipment would need a wide area in a room.

a cooperator · Feb 25, 2016

giantbucket :

things must be sold differently in your area. over here in north america, a UPS system for a regular consumer is sold as the unit WITH a battery, and prices range from $50 to $250 for most types. the more expensive ones can supply more power and have more batteries for longer run-time, but that's mostly it. a UPS sold without a battery is kind of useless, but it's possible. seems stupid to sell it separately since the battery is the main part of the UPS system!

the price you showed for a battery seems OK, but the UPS system is a bit much if it doesn't even include a battery.

if a UPS doesn't specify line regulation, it might not have it. it doesn't need to specify switch-over since it does that by definition.

batteries don't need manuals (it's just a battery), but they should specify an Amp-Hour rating (like 100Ahr). if it specifies 100A / 10hr, then it might be a 100Ahr battery that's supposed to be used for a 10A load (to give it a 10hr discharge time). that's quite common - you would NOT use a 100Ahr battery if you need to pull 100Amps from it, you'll kill it VERY quickly. run a battery at 1/10th of its rated capacity to get a good lifetime out of it. that's C/10. the lower the better, so C/20 is even better.

this means that if you need to supply 400W to your computer, then a 12V battery pack has to supply 400/12=33Amps. if you buy a 35Ahr battery, it'll get killed too quickly and it will NOT last 1hr. you should buy a 100Ahr battery at least.

all batteries have an Amp-Hour (Ahr) rating somewhere.

Could you please reply to my final post?

a cooperator · Feb 27, 2016

giantbucket :

Thanks a lot,

1- NOTE: Battery is only charging a power of 12V via UPS system which will be connected/plugged to main power supply.
So, when there is uninterupted power, then UPS system will be inverting the battery power from 12V into the "220V"
As a result, why have you divided 400W over 12V to get 33Amp in " if I need to supply 400W to my computer, then a 12V battery pack has to supply 400/12=33Amps"

2- If I should buy a 100Ahr battery, then how long will it last? According to your math '400W/12V=33Amps', then if I think a 100Ahr battery will last (100 Amps/33Amps = 3 hours. if I want to pull/supply 400W to my computer?

3- You said "but they should specify an Amp-Hour rating (like 100Ahr). if it specifies 100A / 10hr, then it might be a 100Ahr battery that's supposed to be used for a 10A load (to give it a 10hr discharge time). that's quite common"
I think '100A/10hr' means battery will last 10 hours (100A/10hours = 10 hours). However, you said " if it specifies 100A / 10hr, then it might be a 100Ahr battery". How might "100A/10hr" be a 100Ahr? How could your calculated it? If I want to supply 400W for my computer from 100A/10hr, and accordnig to your math '400W/12V=33Amps', then 100Amps/33Amps = 3 hours. So, "100A/ 10hr" cannot be true(100Ambs cannot be lasting 10 hours) if I want to pull more than 10Ams/hour from it. since when did your math, I found a 100Ams only last 3 hours with pulling 33Amps from it?

4- This is strange. I have never seen ' a 35Ahr battery' . I only saw a 100Ahr battery. I think the 100Amp/10 hour' battery I saw is 100Ahr battery?

5- I really googled the UPS system, and the Battery, but I didn't find the same kind on the internet. This is strange.
Although I googled with these wordings:

From the User's Manual::

NIPPOTEC Externeal Battery UPS
Intelli Pure SINEWAVE Technology - Made in India.
Charging current: 10AMP - 14AMP
Instrument Description - Externeal Battery UPS:
Single Battery(12V) system
SW720, SW950, SW1125

Double Battery(24V) system
SW1650, SW 2000

SN No: 15FDMHFAD10201

6- From the User's Manual::[/ In the Technical Specificantions shown below in bold, "Output Voltage on USP mode 210V ± 10%". is strange.
I think output Voltage on USP mode must be 220V(Same as input) as long as my government main line. Or otherwise, my devices(laptop, desktop) powered by the UPS system, requiring a 220V, will damage ?

Model
SINEWAVE UPS: SW720 / SW950 / SW1125 /SW1650 / SW 2000
Input Voltage
100V~300V(standard input voltage range)

180V~260V(Narrow input voltage range)
Output Voltage on Mains mode
Same as input
Output Voltage on USP mode
210V ± 10%
Output frequency of UPS mode
50 Hz ± 0.1 Hz
Switching from Mains to UPS and from UPS to mains
Automatic
Output Waveform on Mains mode
Same as input
Output Waveform on UPS mode
PURE SINE WAVE
Battery charging current
Constant charging approx 10% of the rated battery current in Ah
Charger
Power Factor controlled Boost Technology
Efficiency
> 80%
UPS Overload/UPS short circuit
110% / 300%
USP Transfer Time
≤ 15 msec.
Technology
Digital Signal Controller(DSC) Based Intelligent Control Design
Auto Rest Feature
Yes

7- the battery is sold with made in China. But, I haven't found it on the internet. I haven't seen any company name on it.

8-as long as the price for a UPS system with model SW1125 is sold for $169.8 and the price for a Single Battery(12V) -- 100A/10 Hours is sold for $115.3. I think 169+115 = $284 is NOT reasonable price for a UPS system, and a battery?????

As a result, What about purchasing a generator with that price. At least the generator will work on diesel or petrol and can itself be generating power. However, the UPS equipment can only save/charge the battery with power, and then can invert power from the battery from 12V into 220V.

9- I noticed the UPS equipment is very large, and even the battery is so. So, these two pieces of equipment would need a wide area in a room.

a cooperator · Mar 2, 2016

giantbucket :

things must be sold differently in your area. over here in north america, a UPS system for a regular consumer is sold as the unit WITH a battery, and prices range from $50 to $250 for most types. the more expensive ones can supply more power and have more batteries for longer run-time, but that's mostly it. a UPS sold without a battery is kind of useless, but it's possible. seems stupid to sell it separately since the battery is the main part of the UPS system!

the price you showed for a battery seems OK, but the UPS system is a bit much if it doesn't even include a battery.

if a UPS doesn't specify line regulation, it might not have it. it doesn't need to specify switch-over since it does that by definition.

batteries don't need manuals (it's just a battery), but they should specify an Amp-Hour rating (like 100Ahr). if it specifies 100A / 10hr, then it might be a 100Ahr battery that's supposed to be used for a 10A load (to give it a 10hr discharge time). that's quite common - you would NOT use a 100Ahr battery if you need to pull 100Amps from it, you'll kill it VERY quickly. run a battery at 1/10th of its rated capacity to get a good lifetime out of it. that's C/10. the lower the better, so C/20 is even better.

this means that if you need to supply 400W to your computer, then a 12V battery pack has to supply 400/12=33Amps. if you buy a 35Ahr battery, it'll get killed too quickly and it will NOT last 1hr. you should buy a 100Ahr battery at least.

all batteries have an Amp-Hour (Ahr) rating somewhere.

Yes, you helped me much. But I am respectfully requesting you to not ignore my final 9 points posted in my final post, and take some of your precious time out to read and reply to them?

External "UPS" battery advice

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