Are DDR4 latency improvements incoming mass market? Will it truly be worth it?

ikissfutebol · Feb 24, 2016

I'm looking to build a new Skylake system in the next week or two with an ASRock mITX H110 motherboard. I know a number of people suggest using a single RAM stick now and simply adding a second later on when it can be afforded. Typically it's 1x8 now and 1x8 later.

I know enough about RAM to get in trouble here - I know the CAS number relates to the latency and the lower the better. It also plays a role in the effective speed. ...or so I think. Would it make more sense to just throw the cheapest 2x4 sticks in now and wait a bit until DDR4 has matured and then go from CAS 15 to say CAS 10 later on (most likely sticking with 8 gigs still, unless market dictates a true need for 16 gigs)? Or is it most likely that the current scene will stay roughly the same where the market is flooded with CAS 15 sticks? On PCPartPicker, I do see one RAM set 4x4 DDR4 2133 with a CAS of 10. It also costs more than I'm spending on a CPU (i5 6400).

I'm pretty sure that mobo is locked to 2133 MHz RAM and I don't overclock anything ever. So unless I can buy faster, fully compatible RAM, it seems like the only thing I could do for faster RAM is get lower latency. The other thing I've seen from reputable youtube folks is that for an average joe, like myself, I'm not going to actually appreciate the difference between 2133 and 4266 (at least I don't think). There's got to be some place where diminishing returns starts to set in, too. I have a 1080p 60 Hz monitor, can't tell the difference in FPS above film (24), and rarely, if ever, even look at my framerate. It's either playable or it isn't. If it isn't, a lower the settings until it is...not much else to it! Needless to say, I strictly asking this from a stand point of 2133 RAM is obviously not changing in speed. The latency is, but will it be something worth actually investing in long term. Is there much benefit to going with 16 gigs of RAM in 2016 or even 2017 or is that something worth thinking about whenever game start making 8 the minimum, whenever that might be?

For what it's worth, my current system has 2x2 DDR2 sticks in right now

My computer walks with a cane...it's old. And this isn't a question of buying a faster motherboard. My budget is maxed out as things currently stand buying 2x4 DDR4 2133 CAS 15 sticks.

rhysiam · Feb 24, 2016

If you're building a gaming PC on a budget (or just about any PC on a budget for that matter) expensive, high speed (and/or low latency) RAM is one of the worst places to spend your money. There is the very occasional case where RAM performance is critical, some particularly complex rendering effects or CAD processes, and if that's what you do day in, day out, then investing in fast RAM makes sense. But for the vast, vast, vast majority of uses, any stock RAM is plenty fast enough and is almost never the component holding your system back.

Given you've only got two slots in a H110 mobo, starting with the cheapest 8GB DIMM you can find from a reputable brand is not a bad choice. Just be aware that there are no guarantees that you can add a second 8GB DIMM down the track and have everything behave. Dual (and quad) channel kits are tested carefully to make sure they work together. Mix and match, even from the same brand and range, isn't 100% guaranteed to work. Having said that, if you're running the standard DDR4 RAM at stock speed with one DIMM per channel, you'd be extremely unlucky to have issues... but it's worth bearing in mind nonetheless.

ikissfutebol · Feb 25, 2016

Then what's the point in people paying $150-200 for high speed, over clocked, low latency RAM? Min/maxing? To simply brag about specs and numbers? Are we talking the difference of a couple FPS?

I appreciate your answer, but I almost feel like I'm now just as confused! I know integrated graphics benefit since GDDR5 is supposed to be faster than even DDR4. Is that really the main audience??

rhysiam · Feb 25, 2016

ikissfutebol :

99% bragging rights and effective marketing. People love bar charts showing their expensive ram is 40% faster than the competition and catchy titles like "extreme performance"... in reality, it makes almost no difference. We're not even talking a few FPS, the differences for gaming aren't even measurable in most situations.

Have a look at this recent review from Toms of a super-expensive DDR4-4000mhz kit: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gskill-trident-z-ddr4-4000-memory,4362-2.html

If you look at the Sandra Memory Benchmarks (which specifically test memory performance) you can see that some of the more expensive kits are over 50% faster than stock 2133mhz DDR4 RAM. So in theory, they are much faster. There's no question of that. But look at the gaming benchmarks, There's about 1% difference across the entire field which is completely within the margin of error. The WinRAR benchmark starts to separate the field ever so slightly, but we're still talking a difference of a few %, only barely measurable.

Think of it like those people who put fancy exhaust systems on otherwise standard cars. Sure they might look cool and sound great and no doubt they are much better exhuast systems... but in reality very few cars are actually having their performance limited by their exhaust. It's all about the engine, tyres, gearbox and suspension.

Generally speaking, it's the same thing with high speed memory. It's technically faster, but in reality, there's very few situations where you computer is sitting and waiting for your memory to read or write data. The rest of the system has plenty to do in the meantime while that RAM is doing its work, so the fact that faster RAM will complete its work quicker, makes no difference to the overall performance of the machine.

As I said in my first post, there are, of course, occasional exceptions. Certain tasks which are highly reliant on RAM. But they're usually niche areas. Very rare for a gaming rig to be held back by RAM speed.

rhysiam · Feb 25, 2016

Just in case you're nervous about just taking my word for it:
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWgzA2C61z4

ikissfutebol · Feb 25, 2016

rhysiam :

ikissfutebol :

99% bragging rights and effective marketing. People love bar charts showing their expensive ram is 40% faster than the competition and catchy titles like "extreme performance"... in reality, it makes almost no difference. We're not even talking a few FPS, the differences for gaming aren't even measurable in most situations.

Have a look at this recent review from Toms of a super-expensive DDR4-4000mhz kit: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gskill-trident-z-ddr4-4000-memory,4362-2.html

If you look at the Sandra Memory Benchmarks (which specifically test memory performance) you can see that some of the more expensive kits are over 50% faster than stock 2133mhz DDR4 RAM. So in theory, they are much faster. There's no question of that. But look at the gaming benchmarks, There's about 1% difference across the entire field which is completely within the margin of error. The WinRAR benchmark starts to separate the field ever so slightly, but we're still talking a difference of a few %, only barely measurable.

Think of it like those people who put fancy exhaust systems on otherwise standard cars. Sure they might look cool and sound great and no doubt they are much better exhuast systems... but in reality very few cars are actually having their performance limited by their exhaust. It's all about the engine, tyres, gearbox and suspension.

Generally speaking, it's the same thing with high speed memory. It's technically faster, but in reality, there's very few situations where you computer is sitting and waiting for your memory to read or write data. The rest of the system has plenty to do in the meantime while that RAM is doing its work, so the fact that faster RAM will complete its work quicker, makes no difference to the overall performance of the machine.

As I said in my first post, there are, of course, occasional exceptions. Certain tasks which are highly reliant on RAM. But they're usually niche areas. Very rare for a gaming rig to be held back by RAM speed.

I like you and your honesty

Thanks! We need more of you on this forum!

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