Are water coolers really that better than air coolers?

Wayfall · Mar 14, 2016

Hi

I've been looking in to water coolers due to a computer store near me recommended I switched from my buzzy stock fan to a Corsair H90 CPU water-cooler as I'm getting sick of the buzzy stock cooler and would like cooler temps.

Thou looking online the temps looks the same 30idle and 60 under load, would this cooler been an improvement temp wise.

I would like to get my CPU down from the hot 60C at load down to 45-50C if possible, I know 60 is an okay temp but I would like to get my system cooler.

Regards

Spectre694 · Mar 14, 2016

Real open loop water cooling is certainly better.
AiO's like the H90 are basically the same as big air coolers like the noctua D14/15.

EDIT: H90 is the baby one so more like a CM hyper 212

fredfinks · Mar 14, 2016

I take it youre not overclocking. Liquid coolers give a bit better performance vs the best air coolers. Its really fighting for those extra degrees at the top end.
Important is cooling vs silence. The faster the fans spin , more cooling is done. Tradeoff is noise.

In short, dont bother with liquid cooling unless you need the absolute maxium cooling performance. A good air cooler is very easy to install and very reliable. No pump failure and install hassle.

For air cooling Noctua is king. They the most reliable fan manufacturers and will always keep your socket mounting kit upgraded for free.
A cheap but decent performing alternative is the coolermaster hyper 212x

Wayfall · Mar 14, 2016

Well I'm mostly just looking for a way to get the temp down slightly and to get rid of that dam buzzing noise when the CPU is under load and the cooler is pushed to spin faster to keep up with the cooling.

Would it be an improvement?

I have a Bitfenix Comrade case with 2x140mm front intake fans and one top back exhaust fan.

delaro · Mar 14, 2016

Are they better? It depends which Air Cooler and Water Cooler you are compairing, some high end Air coolers are better than all the Medium to Med rand Water Coolers. Noise.. Water Coolers can be just as noisy it all depends on the Fans used and placement of the Coolers themselves. I've only used Water Coolers when a customer requests them or for a Highly Overclocked Unit.

Noctua NH-D14
Noctua NH-D15
Be Quiet! Dark Rock Pro 3
DEEPCOOL GamerStrom ASSASSIN

Any of these as Push Pull are fairly Quiet and will give you the same or better temps when compared to Water Coolers in the same price range or $50 more expensive.

Ecky · Mar 14, 2016

Which CPU? For an Intel chip, 60c is quite cool. They'll run at 90c+ for decades safely, and you can probably run a less aggressive fan profile and get quieter operation without spending any money.

Liquid coolers allow you to have a larger cooling surface than you could safely hang off of your CPU socket. An AiO cooler like the H90 won't cool any better than a (probably cheaper) large tower cooler that has equal surface area.

For a stock or mildly overclocked CPU, I would recommend spending no more than $20-30 on a nice air cooler.

nukemaster · Mar 14, 2016

All-on-ones have 2 sources of noise. The pump and the fan(s).

If you are lucky you get a quiet pump, but some can be pretty loud(it can even vary from one unit to another in the same model)

Many all in ones use very fast fans to allow them to get better temperatures in benchmarks. This is kind of a cheat, but if you do not care about noise it is not an issue. An H80i(CoolIT based i think) performed similar to an NHD14 on my cpu and the pump is very quiet on my unit(have to put my head right neat it to hear it). I also have a Zalman LQ310(Asetek based). The pump on the LQ310 is MUCH louder and this is the kind of thing you can run into. The LQ310 is on my video card and performs great, but it is NOT quiet at all(undervolted to about 7 volts is is usable, but I run a risk if it stalling if going even a bit lower than that).

If you have room, big air or custom water is the best way to go. Even a mid level air cooler will cool modern cpus well enough and if the fan fails things take a while to heat up. When a pump fails, the temperatures climb pretty quick under load. Modern cpus will shut down to prevent damage, but it still gets pretty toasty.

EDIT.
@
delaro, OHMS LAW!

delaro · Mar 14, 2016

Ecky :

Intel Chips will not run at 90c, most of them start Thermal Throttling at 80c. AMD Chips have a higher Thermal Ceiling and always have. Running any Chip 24/7 at or near that Thermal Throttle point is not recommended by even the Manufactures, you will dry out your Thermal Paste fast that way. Pushing a High Temp like this usually burns out the Northbridge way before the CPU fails, I've done this a few times recently on my I7 980x Workstation.

fredfinks · Mar 14, 2016

Remember guys, hes replacing a buzzing stock fan for stock speed.

The best thing may just be to get a new, unused stock fan on ebay or even for $5 from a pc shop. We had heaps of them at our store from builds.

OR a decent priced air cooler with preferably large diameter fan for low rpm (noise)

Ecky · Mar 14, 2016

delaro :

I'm sorry, but you're wrong. To my knowledge, the throttle temperature of various Intel CPUs is as follows:

Sandy Bridge - 95c
Ivy Bridge - 105c
Haswell - 100c
Skylake - 105c

Intel warranties their CPUs up to these temperatures for 3 years of continuous use, and my experience with Intel CPUs has been that you basically cannot kill one without adding voltage.

delaro · Mar 14, 2016

Ecky :

The silicon and adhesives used in manufacturing these processors has a peak temperature rating of 95+°C before any form of degradation will take place. These processors also have a thermal shut off safeguard in place that shuts the temp down at around 90 Celsius.. varies per model some will want it lower. Further more all motherboards also have a feature that will throttle it further unless you manual disable it.. varies 80-90°C. So running a CPU that high may not initially damage it but it will over a length of time, 3 years by the Warranty as opposed to the 10 years of normal life. The issue here is also the stress on the Motherboards Northbridge, most sold will not handle that draw for long periods of time which is why you have the Safeguards in the first place. By removing these safeguards you void all warranty, so if you wish to prove me wrong then feel free to take your PC and find a way to bypass all the Thermal Safeguards in place so you can run the CPU at a MAX temp.

Ecky · Mar 14, 2016

delaro :

What temperature reading are you referring to? Are you talking tjunction or tcase?

I don't need to disable any temperature protection safeguards to get within 5c of tjmax, which is 105c on Ivy Bridge.

Just to nitpick here, but Intel platforms haven't had a northbridge since Core2. What exactly do you mean by stress on the motherboard's northbridge?

Ecky · Mar 14, 2016

I'll just drop this here:

http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/processors/000005597.html

And for clarification:

i5 3570K has a listed Tcase of 67.4°c.

Tcase Max is the maximum temperature that the Tcase sensor should reach. Both Tcase and the thermal specification information can be found on the Intel web site.

Tjunction Max is the maximum temperature the cores can reach before thermal throttling is activated. Thermal throttling happens when the processor exceeds the maximum temperature. The processor shuts itself off in order to prevent permanent damage. Tjunction Max (Tj Max) is also referred to as TCC Activation Temperature in certain processor datasheets.

However, there is no Tcase sensor on our processors. Any "Tcase" reading that you have is a derived from the DTS sensor which is below the cores, from a reading that was done at the factory, estimating what the center of the heatspreader will be at relative to core temperatures.

Tcase is the temperature measurement using a thermocouple embedded in the center of the heat spreader. This initial measurement is done at the factory. Post-manufacturing, Tcase is calibrated by the BIOS, through a reading delivered by a diode between and below the cores.

Tjunction is synonymous with core temperatures, and calculated based on the output from the Digital Thermal Sensor (DTS) using the formula Tjunction = (Tjunction Max – DTS output). Tjunction Max (Tj Max) is also referred to as TCC Activation Temperature in certain processor datasheets.

Maximum core temperature (synonymous with tjunction) for i5 3570K is 105c.

Wayfall · Mar 15, 2016

Okay well I didn't think I would get so many replies for this posting haha...

I have a Intel Haswell Quad Core i5 4460 3.2GHZ, love the CPU as I pretty much have no problems from it, the cooler keeps my CPU at about 60C there about while the CPU is at 80% load.

I'm just looking for a very very easy to install CPU cooler that keeps the CPU cool about 45-50C while doesn't take up much space but can quietly suck air into the cooler then direct the hot air to my cases exhaust fan quickly.

Ecky · Mar 15, 2016

If you're looking for quiet at minimal cost, I would recommend backing off the fan profile with the stock cooler. Even at 70-85c, your i5 will outlast everything else in your computer. Intel's stock fans (unless the bearing is starting to go) are very quiet at idle, quieter than anything you're likely to purchase under $30, and lowering temps to 45-50c will not benefit the CPU in any measurable way.

If you're set on an aftermarket cooler, I like the Noctua NH-L9i. It's small, but it has greater cooling capacity than Intel's stock cooler, and Noctua makes high quality fans.

Wayfall · Mar 15, 2016

Some reviews state that it can get rather loud sometime?

Ecky · Mar 15, 2016

Depends on how many watts you are dissipating, how many degrees above ambient you're shooting for, and what you consider loud.

A larger heat sink will require less airflow to achieve the same delta T, but will cost more, all else being equal. Cheap fans are generally noisy even when spinning slowly, so something like a Hyper212 EVO (which I have sitting unused in a desk drawer), which has a much greater cooling capacity but comes with a cheap fan, will be noisier at idle but potentially less noisy under load.

Are water coolers really that better than air coolers?

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