New Workstation _for 2D, 3D_renering and AE work

possibly, though tha is a slower cpu (2.2 GHz vs 3.1 GHz), though thar will multitask betrer with double the cires

the Dell workstation has half the ram and no SSDs, and even the 4 tb drive is slower (5400RPM vs 5900 RPM+hybrid)

boris888,

Mt tendency is to look for recent. more or less unused open box workstations and fro you use which appear to requie both exceptionally good single-threaded performance for Aalias and good CPU and GPU for Alias and AE- AE is going to reintroduve multiple simulatanous frames rendering in the 2016 version so it will benefit from CPU core count a nd speed as well.

Here's an example:

HP Work station z640 2x Intel Xeon E5-2643v3 3.4 GHz, 64GB RAM, 512GB Z Turbo > £3,490.59 or offer

The Xeon E5-2643 v3 is a 6-core @ 3.4 /3.7GHz. On Passmark a z840 with a pair of Xeon E5-2643v3's has a CPU rating of 18239 and the single threaded rating is 1984. That particular system which is essentially unused and under warranty has 64GB of RAM, a 512GB SSD, and only needs to plug in a GPU to get started. As the price is reduced thanks to the circumsances possibly a Quadro M5000 is possible.

Another approach to have a high perofrmance system that concentrates expensiditr on worthwhile efforts is to u base a systm on a Supermicro Superworkstation whic provides a Case, motherboard, CPU coolers, and power supply- all very server quaility and rated to be very quiet, In this example, one only needs plug in the CPU's, RAM, GPU, and drives0 very fast and less fuss than shopping every part and assembling, wiring, configuration, and etc. in this example, the technology takes one or two steps back to Xeon E5-2600 series or E5-2600 v2 CPU's .With used CPU.'s which have been perfectly reliable in the last 8 years in my uses, again, funds may be redirected to great GPU, SSD, and more RAM.

This would be somewhat more costly in Quidniks, but here;'s an xample using a pair of Xeon E5-2667 v2 8-cores @ 3.3 /4.0 GHz- fantastic CPU's:

BambiBoom Pixel Cannon Cadarendermodeographilicious iWork TurboSignature Extreme ModelBlast 9900 ®©$$™®£™©™_4.2.16

Case /Motherboard /Power supply : Supermicro SuperWorkstation SYS-7037A-I Dual Socket LGA2011 Xeon 900W Mid-Tower Workstation Barebone System (Black) > $721

http://www.supermicro.com/products/system/tower/7038/SYS-7038A-i.cfm
http://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php?name=SY-7038AI

CPU: 2X Intel Xeon E5-2667 v2 Eight-Core 3.3 /4.0GHz, 25MB LGA 2011 CPU, 130W > used about $1,500 ($750) each)

hhttp://ark.intel.com/products/75273/Intel-Xeon-Processor-E5-2667-v2-25M-Cache-3_30-GHz?q=Xeon%20E5-2667%20v2

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Intel-SR0KH-Xeon-E5-2680-2-7GHz-8-Cores-Socket-2011-CPU-Processors-USA-TESTED-/191770882001?hash=item2ca66f6fd1%3Ag%3A9TkAAOSwCQNWhBsk&nma=true&si=bKkcIBSFWFwXM%252Bjp2IbFzHJFj9Y%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Memory: 64GB (4x16GB) Samsung DDR3-1866 16GB/2Gx72 ECC/REG CL13 Samsung Chip Server Memory > $368 ($92ea.)

http://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php?name=D318R16GS2

GPU: PNY NVIDIA Quadro M4000 8GB GDDR5 4DisplayPorts PCI-Express Video Card > $793.

http://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php?name=PNY-M4000

RAID Controller : Future:

Drive 1: Intel 750 Series 2.5" 800GB PCI-Express 3.0 x4 MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) SSDPE2MW800G4X1 > $600

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820167360&cm_re=intel_750-_-20-167-360-_-Product

Drives 2, 3: 2X WD Black 2TB Performance Desktop Hard Disk Drive - 7200 RPM SATA 6 Gb/s 64MB Cache 3.5 Inch - WD2003FZEX> $258 ($128ea) (Files, Backup, System Image)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822236624&cm_re=Western_Digital_Black_2_TB-_-22-236-624-_-Product

Optical Disk: ASUS Black 16X BD-R 2X BD-RE 16X DVD+R 5X DVD-RAM 12X BD-ROM SATA Blu-ray Burner BW-16D1HT > $83

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827151266

Operating System: Microsoft Windows 7 Professional SP1 64-bit English (1-Pack), OEM > $139.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827135306&cm_re=blu_ray_drive-_-27-135-306-_-Product
_______________________________________

TOTAL = about $4,462

Performance should be very good. The Quadro M4000 has 3D scores up to 7234., The Intel 750 800GB is impressive- Passmark scores up to 14186.

In your use, you could run a pair of M4000's to have 2GPU. 16GB of RAM, and 3288 CUDA cores.

In another direction there is argument to have a single CPU with a very high single-threaded performance, fro example:

BambiBoom PixelCannon Cadamodelrendergrapharific iWork TurboBlast ExtremeSignature SuperModel 9600 ®©$$™®£™©™_ 3.9.16

1. CPU: Intel CPU CM8064401547809 Xeon E5-1680v3 20M 3.20 / 3.80GHz 2011-3 Tray 8-Core Bare > $2,013

2. CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO CPU Fan > $32.

3. ASUS X99-E WS LGA2011-v3/ Intel X99/ DDR4/ 4-Way CrossFireX & 4-Way SLI/ SATA3&USB3.0/ M.2&SATA Express/ A&2GbE/ CEB Workstation Motherboard > $488

____ http://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php?name=MB-X99E-WS

4. RAM: Memory: 64GB (4x 16GB) SAMSUNG 16GB 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM ECC Registered DDR4 2133 (PC4 17000) Server Memory Model M393A2G40DB0-CPB > $456 ($114ea.)

____ http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820147382&cm_re=Samsung_DDR4-2133_16GB_Server_Memory-_-20-147-382-_-Product

5. GPU: PNY Quadro M4000 VCQM4000-PB 8GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 Full Height Workstation Video Card> $859
____ http://www.macmall.com/p/PNY-Video-Cards/product~DPNo~13248565~pdp.iigbbje?source=mwbgoogleshop&gclid=CjwKEAjw2f2hBRCdg76qqNXfkCsSJABYAycP_-AKV0I5UZVBtWrk8ltpCKFcaH__Twc558CuDVDMhBoC8B_w_wcB

6. Drive 1: SAMSUNG SM951 MZHPV512HDGL-00000 M.2 512GB Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) - OEM > $369

____http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820147426&cm_re=samsung_m.2_ssd-_-20-147-426-_-Product

7. RAID Controller: LSI MegaRAID SATA / SAS 9260-4i 6Gb/s PCI-Express 2.0 w/ 512MB onboard memory RAID Controller Card, Single--Avago Technologies > $294

____ http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816118106&cm_re=lsi_9260-4i-_-16-118-106-_-Product

8. Drive 2 & 3: 2X Seagate Constellation ES.3 ST4000NM0033 4TB 7200 RPM 128MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Enterprise Internal Hard Drive Bare Drive > $418 ($209 each)

____ http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA5EM1PU0758&cm_re=Seagate_Es.3-_-22-178-307-_-Product> $140 (Files, Backup, System Image)

9. PSU: SeaSonic X-850 ; SS-850KM3 ACTIVE PFC F3 850W 80 Plus Gold ATX12V/EPS12V Power Supply > $146

10. Optical Drive: Samsung SH-224DB/BEBE 24X SATA DVD±RW Internal Drive w/o Software (Black) SH-224DB $17.99

11. Case: LIAN LI PC-A75X No Power Supply ATX Full Tower Case (Black) CA-A75 > $179.99

12. Operating System: Microsoft Windows 7 Professional 64-bit w/ SP1 (1-Pack, DVD), OEM MSFQC04649 $138.99

________________________________________________________

TOTAL = $ 5,412

There are of course, infinite options, depending on your acceptance of some used components. For example Supermicro makes a special dual Xeon motherboard with 4X x16 PCIe 3.0 GPU slots and you can line up four graphics cards or GPU coprocessors . Imagine 32GB of video memory and 7,000 CUDA working on the project,...

In my view, the best solution is to have the dual E5-2667 v2 system or if you like the latest stuff and guarantees, the "new other" HP z840.

Cheers,

BambiBoom

Modeling:

1. HP z420 (2015) > Xeon E5-1660 v2 (6-core @ 3.7 / 4.0GHz) > 32GB DDR3 1866 ECC RAM > Quadro K4200 (4GB) > Intel 730 480GB (9SSDSC2BP480G4R5) > Western Digital Black WD1003FZEX 1TB> M-Audio 192 sound card > 600W PSU> > Windows 7 Professional 64-bit > Logitech z2300 speakers > 2X Dell Ultrasharp U2715H (2560 X 1440)>
[ Passmark Rating = 5064 > CPU= 13989 / 2D= 819 / 3D= 4596 / Mem= 2772 / Disk= 4555]
[Passmark V9.0 Beta Rating = 5019.1 > CPU= 14206 / 2D= 779 / 3D= 5032 / Mem= 2707 / Disk= 4760] 3.31.16
[Cinebench R15 > CPU = 1014 OpenGL= 126.59 FPS] 7.8.15

Rendering:

2. Dell Precision T5500 (2011) (Revised) > 2X Xeon X5680 (6-core @ 3.33 / 3.6GHz), 48GB DDR3 1333 ECC Reg. > Quadro K2200 (4GB ) > PERC H310 / Samsung 840 250GB / WD RE4 Enterprise 1TB > M-Audio 192 sound card > Logitech z313 > 875W PSU > Windows 7 Professional 64> HP 2711x (27", 1920 X 1080)
[ Passmark system rating = 3844 / CPU = 15047 / 2D= 662 / 3D= 3550 / Mem= 1785 / Disk= 2649] (12.30.15)

Bambi, I don't know of you noticed, but the OP is in the UK, so US prices are pointless

ScrewySqrl,

Yes, I noticed and you might have noticed that the first listed option, the HP z640 is off Ebay UK, listed at £3,490.59. "£"'s refer to money in the UK.

The other ideas are cut and pastes to show some general alternatives. As those alternatives are $4,500 and $5,500, and suggest used parts which vary in price anyway, they could be within the $7,000-$10.000 range stated in the original post.range at UK prices.


BambiBoom

boris888,

In my view, the capabilities of visualization software to effectively utilize all the cores of even dual processors systems is limited. There are 4 and 8 CPU motherboards and associated Xeon E7-4800 and E7-8800 processors. However, the hardware is so expensive (motherboard $2,500, E7-8893 v3, 3.2/3.5: $6,900) and given the underutilization, it is not a viable option.

Tests have shown in some software- Adobe and Autodesk- with Solidworks being a notable exception- the maximum benefit of mutlithreading is 5-6 cores. The state of the art is in constant transition. AE is an insteresting example as the 2014 version had quite good multi-threading capabibility of "render multiple frames simultaneously", but this feature was removed fro 2015 and is have a new version- "someday".

The proposed system does have to have strengths in a several disparate factors: a very strong single threaded performance, but there also need to include strong processing power.

While your budget is very good, if your goal is the best performance for that budget limit, the best solution will be a situation employing a high quality used workstation. For example;

DELL T7910 2*12 CORE 2.60GHZ E5-2690 V3 64GB 2*1TB 7.2K SAS K4000 > £4,794 or offer

This system, located in Berkshire, is "new other" -virtually unused-has 2X Xeon E5-2687w v3 and 128GB of RAM. The E5-2687w v3 is 10-core @3.1 /3.5GHz. The Passmark single-threaded rating of 1929 is adequate for 3D modeling and of course, the 20-cores and 40 threads present tremendous processing power.

In this example system, the Quadro K4000 GPU is nothing special, and this could be replaced by a Quadro M4000's > £777 the M4000 has very good performance in 2D and 3D and is very good value and a second one could be added later. A pair of M4000 would provide 2GPU's, 16GB of memory, and 3,328 CUDA cores. Increase RAM to 128GB,about £320. Add to this 2X Intel 750 400GB PCIe SSD's £580 and there is still the matter of the storage drives: 2X Seagate 3TB Constellation ES.3 £270. TOTAL= about £6750. So quite close to the limit.

In my view, it is wiser to utilize partly depreciated CPU's and use Xeon E5 or E5-v2 which typically have fewer but faster cores. Base the system on a

1. Supermicro SuperWorkstation 7047A-73 Xeon Based Tower Server > £1070. This provides the case, motherboard, CPU coolers, and server-grade 1200W power supply.

2. Add 2X used Xeon E5-2690 8-core @ 2.9 /3.8GHz, about £800 (£400 each),

3. 128GB of DDR3-1866 RAM > about £720 ( 4X Crucial (2x16GB) DDR3 1866MHz PC14900 MAC ECC-R 32GB Kit)

4. PNY Quadro M4000 NVIDIA Single Precision Pro Graphics Card 8GB > £777

5. Plus 2X Intel 750 Series NVMe PCIe SSD/Solid State Drive 400GB SSDPEDMW400G4R5 / X1 SSD's £580

6. And there is still the matter of the storage drives: 2X Seagate 3TB Constellation ES.3 £270.

7. Windows 7 Professional 64-bit > £120

___________________________________________________

TOTAL = about £4337

= Dual Xeon, 16 core /32 thread (2.9 /3.8GHz), 128GB RAM, Quadro 8GB, 2X 400GB PCIE SSD, 2X 3Tb enterprise storage drives, 1200W power supply.

Within the budget, I believe this would have a good balance of capabilities, very high performance, and excellent reliability. The Superworkstation series are rated to be very quiet as well. The much better cost /performance ratio as compared to the Dell T7910 is the benefit of having used CPU's. This approach only requires plugging in the CPU's, RAM, GPU, and drives- no serious assembly and no motherboard and power supply wiring.

Cheers,

BambiBoom

Personally, I prefer build-your-own as being a better deal. each of the individual parts has from a 1 to 5 year warranty

boris888,

Because the proposed system is used for 3D modeling, and the number of cores applied to tasks such as rendering is not linear scalar- there is a peak in the efficiency to cores, and that the usefulness of cores varies according to the software- there is a lot of GPU rendering and hybrid CPU /GPU rendering, core count should be balanced with a strong single-threaded.

With the emphasis on GPU rendering, it can be advantageous to consider fewer but faster cores. But, since there are multiple directions toward optimization, it's difficult to choose one direction and the wisest in my view is to have the real-time work go quickly- 3D modeling and editing/image manipulation and let rendering take the extra time. With rendering if it's a matter of a minute over twenty minutes, it's barely noticeable. I have a 6-core system with top CPU rate of 4GHz and a 4GB Quadro and it runs renderings faster than my rendering system with 12-cores up to 3.73GHz and 4GB Quadro because the 6-core Quadro is a K4200 and the 12-core is oder CPU and memory technology and the Quadro is a K2200. The system interactions as related to the software are just king-boggling in complication.

Sorry for the long ramble, but to return to your questions, again, I'd balance single-threaded to core-count and tilt to the single-threaded because of Alias. Complex 3D surfaces at high resolution and with reflective textures mean astounding polygon and particle calculations. Alias can use up to 8-cores for certain ray-tracing processes, but my take on Alias is that in reality anything more than 8-cores total might be a waste. In Adobe CC, likewise, tests show that the peak multi-core use may be 5-6 cores. However, my limited understanding of Keyshot is that it's CPU-based and scalar- the more CPU cores the better- so there's the odd one out changing the balance.

If you would accept the idea of used CPU's, I'd say the best choice for your system would be to use a pair of Xeon E5-2687v2 which are 8-core @ 3.4 /4.0Ghz. The Passmark CPU rating_____Single-threaded rating is:

2X E5-2687w v3 (10-core @ 3.1 /3.5Ghz) __________24774________1930
2X E5-2687w v2 (8-core @ 3.4 /4.0Ghz) __________24501_____________2060

Another approach is more fuss, but might have a number of advantages at a lower similar cost and that is to have two systems, one modeling and one rendering.

System 1> Modeling/ GPU rendering: Xeon E5-1650 v3 (6-core @ 3.5 /3.8) / Quadro M4000 (8GB) ____ 13505_____2119 CPU cost = £500

System 2> CPU Rendering CPU-GPU rendering /Processing: 2X Xeon E5-2690 (used) (8-core @ 2.9 / 3.8GHz) / Quadro K1200 (4GB) _____ 20826 ____ 1874 CPU cost: about £600

System 1 therefore has the 2nd fastest single-threaded performance for a Xeon E5 (first is E5-1680 v3 8-core) and with a Quadro M4000 fast at modeling and GPU rendering

Compare the CPU cost of the two system scheme of about £1100 to buying a pair of E5-2687w v3 at a total of £3782 .

Compare the cost of: Passmark CPU points /£ :

Xeon E5-1650 v3 + 2X E5 2690 = 13505 + 20826 / £1100 = 34331 / 1100 = 31.21 pts / £
2X E5-2687 v3 = 24744 / £3782 = 6.54 pts /£

> and the cost /performance ration is very clear. The CPU cost difference alone will more than pay for the second system. My suggestion fro the second system would be to buy a used Delll Precision T7600 or HP z620 with a low specification Xeon E5 and then change to the E5-2690.

It's possible too to consider buying one of these with an E5-2670-which is an 8-core @ 2.5 / 3.2GHz -quite competent enough to sit in the corner and render. Quite a number were sold:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DELL-T7600-PRECISION-WORKSTATION-W7-E5-2670-2-6GHZ-32GB-146GB-15K-H310-/141936383532?hash=item210c11562c%3Ag%3AftEAAOSwAuNW8Fo%7E&nma=true&si=v90sT9I1BI92Hhx3oBwYpDhn3xY%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557 > sold for £605.89

> and to this add the second E5-2670 (requires a riser board) At the moment an E5-2670 cost only about $70 in the US.

Anyway, a couple of options.

Cheers,

BambiBoom

actually, Broadwell multi-core X99s just came out:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-core-i7-broadwell-e-6950x-6900k-6850k-6800k,4587.html


The flagship -6950X features 10 cores, representing the complete LCC die. Each core is associated with 2.5MB of last-level cache, yielding a 25MB pool across the chip. The cores also have their own 32KB L1 instruction and data caches, plus 256KB of L2 cache. Core i7-6950X operates at a base frequency of 3GHz, but ramps up to 3.5GHz through Turbo Boost. From there, Intel adds a familiar 40-lane PCIe 3.0 controller and a quad-channel DDR4 controller, which steps up from 2133 MT/s memory support to data rates as high as 2400 MT/s. Hyper-Threading support up and down the Core i7 family means -6950X works on up to 20 threads concurrently.

yes, still fits in an x-99 board, faster than the haswell based E5 Xeons

should work very well