Will the 160W picopsu be enough for this ?

chilledrecords

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May 4, 2016
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http://pcpartpicker.com/p/tCFkGX
I'm builing this PC and hesitating between a pico or full ATX PSU mostly because it will be a low wattage PC but it will have 7 x 2.5 old 5400RPM HDDs connected to it + 1 SSD. I'll try to cram all of them in that case (with either a pci sata x4 card, a different mobo with 6 sata ports + using some usb2 header adapter, or even using some spare sata>usb3 external case adapters I have (the drives arent that fast to start with).

Would the pico 160W be ok (considering spin-up, don't know if sttagered is possible?) ?

Do I need a regular 300W+ PSU? Like some Corsair CS 430M or some Seasonic 430, eco, etc?

I know this PC will idle quite low: would a 90W or 120W picopsu work?

PCPP wattage rankings look way over the real usage, don't they?
 
Solution


1) Read the fine print, it's 8A on...

chilledrecords

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May 4, 2016
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1,510


These are (sometimes old) 5.400 RPM laptop drives so shouldn't power usage be lower? I take they sip power from the 5V rail, correct? With your amperage assumption that would be 70 W. I can expect around 80 W from the cpu+mobo+ram/etc combo (H110 chipset itx board, i3 skylake, etc), wouldn't that be enough give the efficiency of the 160W picopsu?

On the other hand, The drives state their power consumption always is around 0.5A @5V each (the worst is 0.7A), that's why I initially assumed a total cost of max 40 W for the drives: why am I wrong ? Is it the spin up power requierement? Is it possible to do staggering spin up with this config (I don't know anything about this)?

And BTW I do indeed plan to buy a S12II 430 if I ditch the picopsu option. Or a 430W eco (which could be noisier), or even a SSR-360GP (gold) if you think that'll be ok. Thanks

 


1) The picopsu (http://www.mini-box.com/Power-Supplies-Kits) is 12V only, hard drives would be powered by that 12V, likely through a low efficiency method.
2) If they are older drives they likely use 2A. Newer drives can be as little as 500mA at 5V, but you didn't state exact models so I gave you the minimum safe estimate.
3) The s12II 430 is good, but if you're pairing these drives with something like an mitx 35W i3 or pentium, the SS300ET is about 30% cheaper.
4) No need to go gold for power supplies that small, a 10% difference in efficiency at 300W is 40W, but at the likely ~60W you'll be running it'll be <10W, at that rate it would take decades to pay itself off!
5) If quiet operation is a must, you probably should go with a larger unit
6) Checking back at your case, it will NOT fit 8 drives. Are you sure you're not completely confused?
 

chilledrecords

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May 4, 2016
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1) it is not, it does 5V/3.3V etc and is a passthrough to the 12V provided by a brick (they sell a 192W with it)
2) most of the models on my PCPP list are the real ones except for the 2x Momentus, being 5400.4 and not .6. The are not THAT old and yes their power consumption is stated on the top of the drive and is always 5V only and usuallly 0.550, 0.700, 0.450 A etc. I´m guessing that's a MAX value (probably during spin-up), so it's still around 30W max for the 8 drives (including the SSD), right? They do NOT use 12V, do they? They are all 2.5" drives @ 5400 rpm and come from laptops or external usb2&3 self-powered external units.
3) not sold in my region (France) anyway, that's why I was considering the SSR-360GP (but non modular?). If I'm going ATX or SFX, I'd like it to be Seasonic and preferably (semi) modular (and the lowest possible wattage of course, as it should spread less heat, right?). But it looks like a 160 picopsu would do as long as I don't use 3.5 drives or a graphic card, doesn't it?
4) & 5) noted, thanks. I mostly want it to be as quiet as a budget PSU can go (Seasonic fanless are expensive and for that price I think it would be better to have a less bulky picopsu, that would eliminate lots of cable space that I need for the 8 drives connections) without using a bigger case.
6) Yes PCPP seems alarmed by that. I plan to cram the rest of them (as at least 3, probably 4, can go on the side & upper panels) them on the empty space between the mobo & the front, vertically (attached with something, will see). I even considered the SSG05 at one point... I'll obviously need a 4x SATA II PCIe card or a 6x SATA mobo (ie GA-H170-WIFI) + using usb2/3 headers with an adapter (or connecting the smaller drives via usb while keeping them inside)
 


Yes the picopsu 160W does have 5V, but it's ~4A without putting a high powered fan on the connector. Just avoid it though, no sense considering you can get high end 300W power supplies for the same price.

As for the other seasonic units not being in stock, check is the XFX TS series is available, it's the same thing for basically the same price. http://www.kitguru.net/components/power-supplies/zardon/xfx-pro-series-450w-and-550w-power-supply-review/6/ shows it's pretty damn quiet too, especially at the load levels you'll be using it with.

For the case, conside the Fractal Design Node 804 and BitFenix Colossus Mini. If style is more important than money, Lian-Li PC-Q26B
 

chilledrecords

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May 4, 2016
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according to the specs the 5V rail is 8A with a peak of 10A (so 40 & 50 W). Using the 192W brick that would be ok. My 8 drives should be under 28 W (that's the peak usage as written on the top of the drives, taking the 0.7A for all, which is not true) during seconds, after that it would dramatically go down as I won´t use all the drives simultaneously.

I take the other component using the 5V rail is the mobo, which will be an itx either H110 or B150 or H170. I think it primarily uses 12V and the remaining 5V current should suffice, right?

The 12V rail is only 8 A (96W), would that be a problem? The i3 is max 47W TDP + 11W 2x8 DDR4 RAM + MOBO (chipset, stock cpu fan, stock CM 110 case fan, etc)
 


1) Read the fine print, it's 8A on 5V with forced convection, and they don't mean some small amount of airflow either.
2) Just get a real PSU, trust me, the picopsu was never meant to handle Core i series desktop chips. The XFX TS 450 is available in france for ~55 euro, about the same as the picopsu
 
Solution

chilledrecords

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May 4, 2016
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OK but if I was to cross to the ATX camp, I'm hesitating between all this:

- S12II 430W 60 € PRO: 6x sata power cables CON: non modular
- SSR-450RM 85 € PRO: modular CON: price and lower model ?
- SSR-360GP 73 € PRO: gold CON price (given that it's non modular)
- SS-400FL 110€ PRO: fanless & modular CON price
- SS-300FS 30 € USED PRO: price CON: used, older & uglier, noisier (that fan!) ?
- (for comparison) PICO PSU KIT 160W + 192W brick 109 € (including shipping) PRO: fanless, smallest, cable management, most heat is outside the case CON: price per watt, less stable?, heat @ 5V close to the mobo/ram

I'd prefer the most silent, less heat emitter and power hungry of them. Does the 450W draw more power from the wall than the 300W model at the same load from the components ? Hence does it generate more heat?
 

chilledrecords

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May 4, 2016
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1,510
So even if the answer to this thread is PROBABLY YES (given the max specs stated on the back of each drive), I trusted the repplies and went for an ATX psu, namely Seasonic S G-360 because of its low wattage and newer model (and it was only 13 € more than the S12II 430W which was also available on amazon france for 60 €). I hope it will be quiet enough: it should as it will very rarely go up to 50% load (180W) if not at all. FTM I'm connecting 4 of the drives through 4 usb ports (2 & 3, I know 2 will bottleneck the drives, even if they are mobile 2.5 5400rpm) and keeping them inside the case (the 4 cables are going through the pci bracket if necessary).

I updated the PCPP with the final build and the reuse of old hardware. I didn't mark the other 4 HDD as external storage because PCPP doesn't count them in the total wattage if I do):

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/QvpT4D
 

chilledrecords

Commendable
May 4, 2016
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ok so now a year later I wasn't satisfied at all with all those 2.5" HDDs constantly spinning up and down due to Windows 10 lots of background services, etc. (or whenever I launched an Explorer window or the like). Plus it was noisy. I find the Cooler Master 110 bigger than what I wanted, even though it's quite small. I could have fitted up to 10 x 2.5" HDDs provided I connected them via usb or a sata ports over pci card, just with imaginative screwing and tightening aroud the PSU. The Seasonic 360G PSU was awesome, though. You couldn't ever hear its big fan. I started disabling the case fan as it was doing almost nothing for me (no vga card and an i3 so heat inside was minimal, plus the 8 HDDs were placed vertically)

So I changed my config. I purchased a M350 case, a picopsu and and the smaller Noctua cpu fan. The same computer now fits in a M350 case (2.5L ! and I'd say it looks even less) with the mobo+cpu+ram+ssd stated in the OP plus Noctua's NH9 Li (though Intel stock fan fitted, I tried) powered by a Leicke 60W (!) brick and the 90W PicoPSU and it works flawlessly (the 5V rail is not powering 8 drives anymore). This cpu cooler is so awesome you can even completely stop the fan when idling a regular i3 6100 and it doesn't go beyond 45ºC (the fan is inaudible anyway up until say 1000 RPM -I'm actually at 750 RPM and 31ºC). I ditched all the old-ass HDDs (now used for external backup) and got a 5 TB 2.5 portable HDD which will almost always be connected (it's actually almost silent and spins up o down very quietly, plus it writes at 120 MB/s... I've already transfered 4 TB at that speed -sequential).

TDPs (it is always less than that):
i3 6100 51W
Noctua 2.5W
H110 6W (the chipset, I don't know about the whole mobo including its wifi... 25W? probably less since it's mini itx)
EVO 500 7W
DDR4 2133 16GB 3-6W ??

So that's it. Justa came here to confirm even 60W is enough for this config, and the 90W picopsu doedn't get very hot, even under load (just remember it is not powering the 7 5400rpm 2.5" drives).

Oh and my Asrock mobo + Noctua fan + M350 doesn't actually allow for any 2.5" drive on the rail mount delivered with the box. I had to screw the SSD directly on the back, and left out the rail, which is actually pretty heavy.
The case is way too much vented (holes on 5 sides, almost all surfaces) and I'm a little worried about dust because they are bigger than Cooler Master's. The case is actually heavy for it's size, and very robust. Totally recommended. The PicoPSU is 20 pin + P4 and fits the 24 + 12v cpu sockets perfectly.

The box is just a little wider than de backplate of the mobo (!).