Is MSI GeForce GTX 1070 AERO OC a good graphics card?

Its a reference card ... by definition, it has issues.... you want the MSI Gaming X which from what I have see and been reported so far has the best PCB design w/ 10 phase VRM on market.... Giga has 6+2, Asus has 6+1.

Btw generally power phases mean very little if you're not overclocking, and PCB design does not matter that much for casual users.

Click to expand...

1. This isn't PC World.com THG is not a site geared to the "casual user".

2. But let's stay in context. My comment on the PCB was in response to chugalug's post on the Gigabyte G1 which has a custom PCB and I was therefore making an apples and apples comparison. If you are going to spring for a custom PCB in the G1, you might as well compare it to the equivalent products from the competition. But so far, all we know is the VRM on each card ... will have to wait for more detailed reviews for the rest. With the G1 "on the table", the information on the competition is certainly contextual.

3. Let's remember that you don't have to be into overclocking to get a card faster than reference. All of the non-reference cards come clocked at higher speeds than the reference cards. Those not willing to overclock, still oft seek out the highest clocked card they can buy. Look here and we see cards clocked from 1506 to 1695 ... boost clocks from 1683 to 1898. Wanna bet that every one that comes at 1800+ boost clock "outta the box" has a custom PCB ?

http://videocardz.com/nvidia/geforce-1000/geforce-gtx-1070

4. Why do the cards with better PCBs always perform so much better ? Over the years, nVidia's legal and other restrictions which limit just how much AIB partners can do have shrunk the difference, but it still exists. Read the bottom third of each page on pages 2 thru 4 in the link below ... then rate the cards on quality of components ... it's no coincidence that the one with the best components and chip cooling on the PCB finishes in 1st and the one which uses a reference PCB but an well known aftermarket cooler finishes last.

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/graphics/2014/09/19/nvidia-geforce-gtx-970-review/2

5. Bigger / better VRMs allow more voltage and more power. But it's just not the VRM phases that matters... chokes, capacitors matter ... how the MOFSETs / Memory are cooled matters. Unfortunately, as of yet, I haven't found a good tear down article which details all componentry used.

6. How does one explain why an AIB card can get fps 32.8 % higher fps (136.0 / 102.4) than stock settings
https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Gigabyte/GTX_980_Ti_XtremeGaming/26.html

And the reference card can only manage 9.4% (179.7 / 1624) ?
https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GeForce_GTX_980_Ti/34.html

I'll take the extra 21.3% performance. And no, it's not just the cooler ... take a look at the power that each card can draw and you will see exactly what the cards can do what they do.

OK so you don't wanna overclock the card ? ... the G1 was still 15.5% faster than the reference card before it was overclocked. That's bigger than a difference between a 970 and a 980 !

7. Yes, nVidia has worked hard to even things out ... so much so that, unlike in past years, cards like the Classified, Matrix, Lightning, etc are very hard to justify today.... taking the next step up may add 20% to the cost and net only 1-2% performance so that may not matter to most but it will matter to some. The reference versus popular gaming cards is another story. The 9xx series showed large performance differences. The 10xx series is showing 6% on average ... and that is without overclocking. So even with the gap narrowed, there is still performance to be gained.

8. The MSI Founders Edition is $699 / The MSI Gaming X with better cooler, better chokes, better VRM, better caps, better chip cooling, no CPU throttling, lower temps, lower noise is also $699. So the argument in favor of the FE reference card is what exactly ? The MSI 1070 FE is $449 ... The MSI Gaming is $439 ... The MSI Armor is $429 (same PCB as Gaming). I don't know what is with the MSI Aero other than it comes in two versions ... reference and overclocked.

The discussion here is akin to the one that claims blower style coolers to be superior because they blow more heat out of the case than open designs. But they run hotter, perform slower so what exactly is the plus here ? Is the heat from the GFX card which raises interior case temps by 1 or 2C somehow impacting the performance of other components ? Is it easier for a single small fan to blow air thru the tiny card slot holes or is it easier and more effective to get the air out of the card as fast and efficiently as possible and have multiple 140mm case fans blow it out thru the giant grilles at the back and top if the case ?

Btw generally power phases mean very little if you're not overclocking, and PCB design does not matter that much for casual users.

Click to expand...

1. This isn't PC World.com THG is not a site geared to the "casual user".

2. But let's stay in context. My comment on the PCB was in response to chugalug's post on the Gigabyte G1 which has a custom PCB and I was therefore making an apples and apples comparison. If you are going to spring for a custom PCB in the G1, you might as well compare it to the equivalent products from the competition. But so far, all we know is the VRM on each card ... will have to wait for more detailed reviews for the rest. With the G1 "on the table", the information on the competition is certainly contextual.

3. Let's remember that you don't have to be into overclocking to get a card faster than reference. All of the non-reference cards come clocked at higher speeds than the reference cards. Those not willing to overclock, still oft seek out the highest clocked card they can buy. Look here and we see cards clocked from 1506 to 1695 ... boost clocks from 1683 to 1898. Wanna bet that every one that comes at 1800+ boost clock "outta the box" has a custom PCB ?

http://videocardz.com/nvidia/geforce-1000/geforce-gtx-1070

4. Why do the cards with better PCBs always perform so much better ? Over the years, nVidia's legal and other restrictions which limit just how much AIB partners can do have shrunk the difference, but it still exists. Read the bottom third of each page on pages 2 thru 4 in the link below ... then rate the cards on quality of components ... it's no coincidence that the one with the best components and chip cooling on the PCB finishes in 1st and the one which uses a reference PCB but an well known aftermarket cooler finishes last.

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/graphics/2014/09/19/nvidia-geforce-gtx-970-review/2

5. Bigger / better VRMs allow more voltage and more power. But it's just not the VRM phases that matters... chokes, capacitors matter ... how the MOFSETs / Memory are cooled matters. Unfortunately, as of yet, I haven't found a good tear down article which details all componentry used.

6. How does one explain why an AIB card can get fps 32.8 % higher fps (136.0 / 102.4) than stock settings
https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Gigabyte/GTX_980_Ti_XtremeGaming/26.html

And the reference card can only manage 9.4% (179.7 / 1624) ?
https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GeForce_GTX_980_Ti/34.html

I'll take the extra 21.3% performance. And no, it's not just the cooler ... take a look at the power that each card can draw and you will see exactly what the cards can do what they do.

OK so you don't wanna overclock the card ? ... the G1 was still 15.5% faster than the reference card before it was overclocked. That's bigger than a difference between a 970 and a 980 !

7. Yes, nVidia has worked hard to even things out ... so much so that, unlike in past years, cards like the Classified, Matrix, Lightning, etc are very hard to justify today.... taking the next step up may add 20% to the cost and net only 1-2% performance so that may not matter to most but it will matter to some. The reference versus popular gaming cards is another story. The 9xx series showed large performance differences. The 10xx series is showing 6% on average ... and that is without overclocking. So even with the gap narrowed, there is still performance to be gained.

8. The MSI Founders Edition is $699 / The MSI Gaming X with better cooler, better chokes, better VRM, better caps, better chip cooling, no CPU throttling, lower temps, lower noise is also $699. So the argument in favor of the FE reference card is what exactly ? The MSI 1070 FE is $449 ... The MSI Gaming is $439 ... The MSI Armor is $429 (same PCB as Gaming). I don't know what is with the MSI Aero other than it comes in two versions ... reference and overclocked.

The discussion here is akin to the one that claims blower style coolers to be superior because they blow more heat out of the case than open designs. But they run hotter, perform slower so what exactly is the plus here ? Is the heat from the GFX card which raises interior case temps by 1 or 2C somehow impacting the performance of other components ? Is it easier for a single small fan to blow air thru the tiny card slot holes or is it easier and more effective to get the air out of the card as fast and efficiently as possible and have multiple 140mm case fans blow it out thru the giant grilles at the back and top if the case ?