Pascal has a 2.1 ghz wall. What aftermarket card should I get?

comanzo

Honorable
Jun 18, 2016
150
0
10,690
So in case some of you aren't in the loop, I will further clarify. According to my research done on multiple websites, there seems to be a 2.1 ghz wall for pascal cards, and while some surpass 2.1ghz, it seems only the FE have the highest success in that regard. Reports say this wall is due to the efficient power consumption, smaller chip, and less cuda cores. It seems because of this wall, it wouldn't make a difference to get an evga acx 3.0 1070 vs. a zotac 1070 amp extreme vs. a 1070 classified, as all of them seem to hit the same wall. The only difference is you have to manually overclock it to that wall instead of the factory clock being the wall. For example, in JayzTwoCents, he reviewed the 1080 AMP Extreme which was a 2050mhz stock clock and could only get +25 mhz after that, while a lower-end 1080 achieved a +400-500 mhz, getting you into the 2,000's like the amp extreme. Over-voltage isn't helping either as it's only succeeding in further increasing temps. People are also not getting very far flashing a custom bios either.

Now comes my question. Does it make sense to just simply get the acx 3.0 1070 and manually overclock it to the wall? Because the only thing separating an acx 3.0 1070 and an amp extreme is fancy rgb lighting, backplate, etc., thanks to this pascal wall. But performance-wise, there seems to be no difference. While temps. may also be a difference between these cards, it doesn't matter as the wall prevents thermal throttling from being a big deal(except for FE). Also, because of this wall and how little over-volting helps, does it also make sense to save your money and not water-cool the gpu? Basically, I am asking if it makes sense to save your money on expensive 3rd party cards/water-cooling. I do apologize for writing a novel on two questions, but I want to make sure there is enough context to come to a solid answer. Thanks.
 
Solution
every custom card i have seen reviewed was almost identical in performance. they beat the FE by 5 or so fps and that's it!! oc'ed thel all matched performance as well. see here for all the cards, specs and reviews http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/id-3047729/nvidia-geforce-gtx-1000-series-megathread-faq-resources.html#17902597

overall, there is no difference so grab the one that looks right, costs the best for you and fits in your case. no matter what you get, they are solid cards so sleep well no matter what you get.

comanzo

Honorable
Jun 18, 2016
150
0
10,690

Ah I see. So a higher factory oc card gurantees it while the lower ones don't. Got it. Now how about for water-cooling? Do you think these pascal cards can achieve a higher overclock when water-cooled? I personally think it's only yes to the FE card. The other cards I have never heard reached temperature throttling before reaching the wall. In other words, they reached the wall before the throttling came into play. But what do you think? Also, do you have a particular 3rd party card you can recommend?
 

Math Geek

Titan
Ambassador
every custom card i have seen reviewed was almost identical in performance. they beat the FE by 5 or so fps and that's it!! oc'ed thel all matched performance as well. see here for all the cards, specs and reviews http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/id-3047729/nvidia-geforce-gtx-1000-series-megathread-faq-resources.html#17902597

overall, there is no difference so grab the one that looks right, costs the best for you and fits in your case. no matter what you get, they are solid cards so sleep well no matter what you get.
 
Solution

Right. I guess I haven't checked prices in a while. The Gigabyte GTX 1070 Windforce is the cheapest at $399 (sold out, of course). Point is, get the cheapest card with custom cooling. Performance is a wash, so get a card that runs quiet and cool.
 

comanzo

Honorable
Jun 18, 2016
150
0
10,690
Thanks for all the help and quick replies guys. I was about to get a 1070/80 classified, which would totally go against your advice. Thanks to your help, I am not wasting money for little gains. Appreciate it. The only other part that still remains unanswered is if water-cooling the GPU will increase it much. Judging from online and your replies, it seems like it's not worth it. However, I would like to get confirmation on this, as the only thing for sure I know is to not get an expensive 3rd party card. Please keep in mind when answering if water-cooling the GPU for me is needed, some conditions:
1) I don't really care much about noise from fans since I have a headset. As long as the game volume overpowers it, then I'm ok.
2) High temperature doesn't bother me as long as it doesn't throttle the card. In other words, as long as it doesn't affect the clock speed or the longevity of the card.
So basically, the only reason why I have my eyes set on water-cooling is to achieve clock speeds not possible on air cooling. It seems like air alone can reach the max clock speed of the card according to multiple sources(due to the wall and locked voltage of pascal GPU's). But I would like your opinions on whether or not water-cooling is for me based on the conditions given. Thanks.
 

comanzo

Honorable
Jun 18, 2016
150
0
10,690

Oh sorry to not clarify. I meant full on water-cooling. I don't like hybrid since it doesn't cool vrm which is actually sensitive to temp. It only cools gpu core. So I was talking more along the lines of full on water-block.
 

Math Geek

Titan
Ambassador
i don't think you will get extra performance large enough to justify the expensive of a full water block. you may get an extra 2 fps but is that worth the $130+ for a water block and all the trimmings??

i have not seen anythign that says it is worth it for purely performance sake. now cooler card and lower noise for sure with the waterblock. but not any meaningful fps increase.
 

comanzo

Honorable
Jun 18, 2016
150
0
10,690

Thanks for the quick reply. Do you think the high temps. of an air cooled GPU cause much damage in terms of longevity? or do you think the self throttling the card does helps make it where it's minute in terms of damage to the card. Obviously voltage does if increased to an unnecessary amount, but what about high temps?
 

Math Geek

Titan
Ambassador
heat is always a concern but the custom cooling is good enough to kep the card cool. of course any massive power increase and trying to stay at 120% all the time is going to have an effect. always does.

the boost tech keeps it as high as it can for as long as it can on its own and is really plenty enough to get the most from the card. anything extra you do as already noted won't net much gain at all, yet uses a ton more power and produces more heat of course. but if you want to do it this way, then maybe the expensive waterblock is the way to go for the piece of mind.
 

comanzo

Honorable
Jun 18, 2016
150
0
10,690

Ok. Sorry if I have been asking so many questions about water-cooling and such. It's just that with Maxwell cards, it was actually worth it to water-cool as you could achieve very high overclock. The pascal I believe falls short there. I also just became a pc gamer not too long ago. So yea thanks for helping me with the insane amount of questions I had.
 

Math Geek

Titan
Ambassador
yah it's totally new with pascal. hard to let go of what has been true for solong and accept that the pascal cards are just not going to do what the old cards did.

i don't think of it so much as limited but rather so optimized that everyone gets the high end experience without all the expertise :)