i7-4790k cpu was this delidded or has the IHS been damaged

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hiddentrooper98

hiddentrooper98

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I purchased a complete used PC of ebay and when i removed the CPU from the mother board this was the CPU that was installed. I ran intel cpu identifier and ran for engineering samples and it passed for a i7-4790k, but the IHS has no engravings.

It has slight copper exposed on the edge. I feel like it was deleted and replaced with an "unmarked IHS" same design as the retail i7490 style IHS if its even possible to get those. The black epoxy is still intact but looks VERY sloppy. Other cpus i have seen have a very uniform exposure around the rim. I'm assuming it has been under the cooler, it was shipped with which is an enermax liqtech 120x cooler.

The whole time could this cooler have damaged the cpu heat spreader, overheated, or any other explanation for the reason the IHS to be blank and exposed copper? I was running the cpu and it didnt over heat running games. The cpu hit 75C for split seconds as the cooler picked up speed. I think i understand that mid 70's C can be ok for the cpu.

Scored 12.1k on physics firestrike 3d mark if up to par with another i7-4790k i got, so just some answers would help. I'm trying to sell this cpu that's why. I have already resolved the issue with the seller. I just want to know more information about this cpu.

http://imgur.com/a/mAwDt
 
Solution
CompuTronix


Intel's "Tcase" spec is "CPU" temperature, not "Core" temperature. Core temperature is 5C higher than the Tcase spec due to the difference in sensor proximity to the heat source.

Tcase for the 84 Watt i7 4790 non-K is 72C, but Tcase for the 88 Watt i7 4790K is 74C, which again is CPU temperature, not Core temperature.

Regardless, Intel processors are safe with Core temperatures in the mid-70's, but sustained operation at 80 and above is not recommended.

Nevertheless, I think Eximo was absolutely correct regarding your...
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Eximo

Eximo

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Might have been delidded, but it was certainly lapped. They basically just made the surface of the IHS as smooth as possible.

That CPU is fine up until about 95C, 105C is shutdown. Mid 70's seems about right for a cooler of that size and quality.
 
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hiddentrooper98

hiddentrooper98

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ok i didn't know there was a "lapping" process after looking that up it seems to be the more possible route that has been taken. but the sealant is very chopped up but if it was just lapped that is much easier for me to sell. thank you for pointing me in the right direction
 
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CompuTronix

CompuTronix

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Eximo,

Respectfully, I unselected your best solution because a portion of the information which you have posted is incorrect.

We here at Tom's try to ensure that the information on our Forum's is correct and is as current as possible, so that other Members and readers don't encounter conflicting information, which creates confusion. I'm sure that you can appreciate our position.

Throttle temperature (TjMax) for the i7 4790K is not 105C; it's 100C.

If you're not sure about the spec's, then check first before posting.

Desktop 4th Generation Intel® Core™ Processor Family, Desktop Intel® Pentium® Processor Family, and Desktop Intel® Celeron® Processor Family Datasheet, Volume 1 - http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/processors/core/4th-gen-core-family-desktop-vol-1-datasheet.html?wapkw=328897

See Section 5.4, Page 76, Table 27, first row, fourth column; Thermal Control Circuit (TCC) Activation Temperature.

Here's the normal operating range for Core temperature:

80C Hot (100% Load)
75C Warm
70C Warm (Heavy Load)
60C Norm
50C Norm (Medium Load)
40C Norm
30C Cool (Idle)
25C Cool

Core temperatures in the mid 70's are safe. Core temperatures above 80C are not recommended.

In the temperature monitoring utility "Core Temp" any core temperatures which reach 81C will by default be displayed in the color "amber" to indicate caution.

In the stress testing utility "OCCT" any core temperatures which reach 85C will by default cause the CPU tests to shut down.

You might want to read this Sticky: Intel Temperature Guide - http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/id-1800828/intel-temperature-guide.html

Thanks,

CT :sol:
 
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hiddentrooper98

hiddentrooper98

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In all honesty I didn't select by choice it kinda selected itself or I did by accident when i responded but it answered my question. About why the cpu face looked the way it did. I have a subpar cooler and its not very good at cooling a 4790 (non k) version below 70intel burnin stress test but does the job and not staying sustained at those mid 70's
But to leave info on Temps for the i7 is helpful for others I have researched it myself I understand the temp issue. Just spec details 72 max operating then looking up at 80+ actually being max as the danger zone for lifespan can be quite confusing for some

I guess I just wait for someone to give a more direct statement to give best to. But I feel it's answered. it had to have been lapped after some research.
 
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CompuTronix

CompuTronix

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Intel's "Tcase" spec is "CPU" temperature, not "Core" temperature. Core temperature is 5C higher than the Tcase spec due to the difference in sensor proximity to the heat source.

Tcase for the 84 Watt i7 4790 non-K is 72C, but Tcase for the 88 Watt i7 4790K is 74C, which again is CPU temperature, not Core temperature.

Regardless, Intel processors are safe with Core temperatures in the mid-70's, but sustained operation at 80 and above is not recommended.

Nevertheless, I think Eximo was absolutely correct regarding your CPU being lapped.
 
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Solution
synphul

synphul

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It was definitely lapped which is the cause for the scratches and discoloration on the ihs. They rubbed it against sandpaper (fine grit) to help smooth any imperfections to improve contact with the cooler. In the one photo of the cpu it looks like there's some sort of black gunk around the pcb board and where the ihs meets it. Is there?

If so it was likely delidded. It looks like some sort of caulking or something that squeezed out everywhere unless the pressure of the cooler did that. Unless the 4790k is put together a lot different from the 4690k, my i5 didn't have what looked like black putty oozed out all around the ihs. I'm thinking they delidded (if they went to the trouble to lap it) and pressing the ihs back down caused the factory glue to squeeze out like that if they didn't get it back perfect.
 
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CompuTronix

CompuTronix

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synphul makes a good point.

If it was indeed delidded, there's no way to know which thermal compound was used between the die and the IHS.

There's a degradation process of most thermal compounds which takes place over time on delidded processors, that's referred to as "pump out" or "pumping". Due to thermal cycling, the compound begins to ooze out from between the die and the IHS which eventually causes the core temperatures to increase. This is why Intel put a great deal of research into using thermal compounds when they decided to stop using indium solder.

Delidding has it's own set of issues, so you can't use just any old compound if you want a delid job to last. The best products to use are Liquid Pro and Liquid Ultra, which have the best longevity and thermal performance. Among the worst products to use is the very popular MX4.

I run my delidded i7 4770K with a bare-die (no IHS) using Liquid Pro and a modified Cooler Master TPC 812 mid-high-end air cooler. It works so well that I have no need for liquid cooling. At 22C standard ambient with 1.283 Vcore at 4.7GHz, my 84 Watt CPU is pulling 112 Watts, and the hottest core is only 69C with the steady-state 100% workload of Prime95 version 26.6 Small FFT's. I haven't reapplied the Liquid Pro in over a year, and my core temperatures haven't increased a single degree.

If you haven't yet tried overclocked your 4790K, you might find that it's an upper percentile chip capable of 4.8 to 5.0GHz. However, you also might find after a few months that your load temperatures begin to increase, and will continue to do so until another delid is performed to again replace the thermal compound.
 
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hiddentrooper98

hiddentrooper98

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I'd like to reply to the last poster but I'm on mobile atm and it's just terrible trying to reply. I want to beleive its delidded but I've read that delidding makes the ihs at all times somewhat loose I have tried to pull off the ish (mildy) like placing my nail under a corner to see if there's any give amd there's none but the overall looks of the epoxy sealer it really does seem that they delidded it amd put the iHS back on like 1mm to far over and that's why it seems goop around the edge my 16mp s5 4k camera cannot do justice up close I'll try to get another pic uploaded in the morning of the edges.

Main question tho is there a product to seal the ish back available that looks like the original intel black epoxy stuff. I see online that people usually scrape all the black sealer off the chip before replacing the heat compound and that leave only the compound attaching the ish to the chip and thus somewhat loose
 
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