Am I better off buying cheapest 1080 and water cooling it? Or top of the line GTX 1080?

carloscar27

Commendable
Mar 29, 2016
16
0
1,510
While I patiently wait to get a GTX 1080 I have been gathering parts to do a custom water cooling loop. I've been looking at the EVGA FTW and it's probably the one I want to go with. My question is would it be smarter to buy a basic 1080 and get a water block for it? Or just go for something like the FTW and water cool it down the road? Thank you!
 
Solution
1. Avoid the Founders Edition Cards, they all thermally throttle and do not have the features or componentry for maximum cooling, sound reduction and overclocking.

2. You could buy a FE card water block for $130 and add a backplate for another$30 .... or you can pay the same amount for an AIB card that will perform at least s good as the FE card and most of the time noticeably better. And while you won't get the performance boost of past years as nVidia has upped their game quite a bit an limited what you can do as a AIB partner, there is still a observable increase in fps. There is also a substantial difference in noise and temps

Which card you want for the same price ? The one that goes 159.9 fps or the one that goes 154.9 ...

Math Geek

Titan
Ambassador
depends on why you wish to water cool it. if it's for performance then it does not matter which one you get nor if it is watercooled or not.

none of the cards did any better in performance than the others and watercooling won't change this. it'll get better temps and be quieter (if your pump is quiet) but you won't get any additional fps out of it.

see here for a list of cards, specs and reviews http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/id-3047729/nvidia-geforce-gtx-1000-series-megathread-faq-resources.html#17902598 check out the guru3d seahawk x review as it shows what WC can do for a FE card as it is an FE card underneath. note it matches all the custom cards but that's it.
 
1. Avoid the Founders Edition Cards, they all thermally throttle and do not have the features or componentry for maximum cooling, sound reduction and overclocking.

2. You could buy a FE card water block for $130 and add a backplate for another$30 .... or you can pay the same amount for an AIB card that will perform at least s good as the FE card and most of the time noticeably better. And while you won't get the performance boost of past years as nVidia has upped their game quite a bit an limited what you can do as a AIB partner, there is still a observable increase in fps. There is also a substantial difference in noise and temps

Which card you want for the same price ? The one that goes 159.9 fps or the one that goes 154.9 ?

MSI AIB
perf_oc.png


Reference FE
perf_oc.png


Check the 1070... same results

The MSI Gaming Seahawk EK X willl solve the throttling problem for you ... for $540... but the GaminX also solves thee problem for you ... so do you pay $540 or $450 to solve the same problem ?

MSI Seahawk EX X $540
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127956

MSI Gamng X - $450
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127947

There are two significant differences between the reference and AIB designs....

1. They can take much more power due to the improved PCB design, even more so once new BIOS arrive that increase the very conservative power limit. If you look at TPUs tests for the 9xx series, you see, unequivocally, that the ones who draw the most power, provide the best fps.

2. They have improved coolers which prevent throttling, lower noise an temps

The other thing you want to understand is that few web sites to in depth reviews that let you examine the true relative differences. Let's examine the claim that all cards clock the same. Open MSI Afterburner and GPUz and assume that you see a new clock 2060 Hz You can then set GPUz to record maximum OC and then you will see what most every review shows

gpuz_oc.gif


Then you run a benchmark and report the max boost and if they are roughly the same, the conclusion is that the cards are equal. Now for the reality

GTX-1080-FE-clocks-over-time.png


We see one card (MSI AIB blue line) running at a rock solid 1910 MHz from start to finish ... we see the second card (orange line) bouncing all over the place from 1670 to 1790. In what world can 1910 and 1670 / 1790 produce equal fps ? Yes, if recording max / avg fps you will get close. But what about the min fps ? The author writes

NVIDIA’s own reference design suffers from severe throttling just after few minutes. It probably wouldn’t be that bad if not the frequency spikes. While average clock is somewhere around officially stated boost clock, those spikes cause micro-stuttering, which negatively affects gaming experience.

Meanwhile, MSI GTX 1080 GAMING X generates almost a straight line for GPU frequency (~1910 MHz), with no spikes and rather constant sub-70 C temperature. This should mean that the gaming experience will be much better, and card should theoretically generate better results in most tests

And that is exactly what we see in every review. Unfortunately what we see is average and not minimum fps so we are not seeing the whole story. At this point, the relative dearth of detailed reviews make it difficult to draw conclusions due to the vagaries of the silicon lottery. But we can look at the 9xx series and there we see that the Zotac Amp Extreme, Gigabyte G1 and MSI Gaming X consistently break overclocking barriers that the competing cards don't match.

In conclusion, you can drop on a $90 water block and solve most of the problems of the reference cards (or even an extra $70 if you can get past the deficiencies of CLCs) .. or you can pay an extra $20 for an AIB card that will do the same job eliminating throttling, and many times a bit better because a) it cools the VRM, memory etc more efficiently, b) its BIOS allows higher voltage / power settings or c) its power deliver system allows for more stable power delivery.



 
Solution

carloscar27

Commendable
Mar 29, 2016
16
0
1,510


Wow that is a lot of data to take in, but very thorough! So basically so far all the 1080's are in the same range when it comes to performance? And water cooling it doesn't really mean you can push more out of it if I'm correct?
 
Not quite ....

The Reference cards all perform poorly ... no exceptions. Yes, you can get very close to the same OC looking in GPUz and maybe that helps owners sleep peacefully, but the reality is, they can't maintain that OC... the reference cards will throttle and tho you may record the same "max boost", that will be an instantaneous peak. The non reference cards are all, at least from what we have seen so far, able to stay below 82C and therefore throttling is not taking place.

You have two ways to solve the throttling problem ... get a non-reference air cooled card or get a water cooled card. The 1st option is by far cheaper and the 2nd option gets you nothing over the 1st.

We don't have a lot of 10xx cards to compare with but here's how the 980 Tis washed out in testing

Gigabyte G1 134.8 fps
Palit Jetstream 133.1
Asus Strix 131.7
MSI Gaming 130.5
Zotac Amp 130.4
EVGA SC 126.8

And while 8 fps might not seem like a big deal ... neither is $20 on a $650 card

Cost per fps for 126.8 @ $650 would be $5.13
Cost per fps for 134.8 @ $670 would be $4.97 and therefore the better buy ... at a $40 premium, it's break even

But also you get the benfits of a cooling running card, a quieter card
 

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