question about cores

Solution

Again... "it's complicated" and "it depends".

If you want a bit of an explanation I'll have a go... but without specific CPUs and specific workloads (i.e. specific games), we can only really speculate.

At a very basic level there are 3 key factors which influence CPU performance:
1) Instructions Per Cycle (IPC): This is essentially how much work each CPU core can complete per clock cycle
2) Frequency: the number of clock cycles per second (measured in Ghz)
3) Number of cores

Frequency and Cores are listed on every CPU product, while IPC is much harder to quantify because it depends entirely on the workload...

Karadjgne

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There is no short answer. Depends entirely on the program being run. The dual core 3.9GHz cpu will have faster throughput on anything that only requires 1-2 threads. So stock Skyrim will be great as it only uses 2 threads. However, on anything that'll use 3-4 threads the 3.0GHz cpu will be faster, it'll do more work in the same time period. So in modded Skyrim which uses upto 5 threads on my pc, the 4 core will be much faster
 

Moenator

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I dont have any really.but will a dual core run modern games that requires quad core as a minimum requirements?
thanks

 

Karadjgne

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Yes and no. A dual core pentium is only 2 threads, so core restricted games like GTA:V won't run, however a dual core i3 with Hyperthreading runs 4 threads, so is seen in game as a 4 core cpu so it will run core restricted games.

If you are looking at the i3-6100, in most games it ties or beats the i5-6400 simply due to its stock speed, when hyperthreading is enabled. The i5-6500 however has the edge due to greater LCache, bandwidth per thread etc. It simply will do more work in the same time period meaning higher fps. The only place the i3-6100 can really bog down is in high cpu usage games requiring 4 or more threads, like starwars battlefront, WoW or other 8 thread usage games.
 

Moenator

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so if I want to play some modern games and I have a somehow low budget for my desktop, am i going to pick an i3-6100 or i5-6400?

Edit;I'm guessing this is way better than the i5-6400?http://www.lazada.com.ph/intel-2-cores-4-threads-core-i3-4160-processor-black-intl-484150.html?boost=1
 

Again... "it's complicated" and "it depends".

If you want a bit of an explanation I'll have a go... but without specific CPUs and specific workloads (i.e. specific games), we can only really speculate.

At a very basic level there are 3 key factors which influence CPU performance:
1) Instructions Per Cycle (IPC): This is essentially how much work each CPU core can complete per clock cycle
2) Frequency: the number of clock cycles per second (measured in Ghz)
3) Number of cores

Frequency and Cores are listed on every CPU product, while IPC is much harder to quantify because it depends entirely on the workload. AMD CPUs at the moment can offer very high frequencies and lots of cores, but for most tasks their IPC is so poor that competing Intel CPUs usually get more work done despite having lower frequencies and fewer cores.

Having more cores sounds great, a quad core CPU should be theoretically twice as fast as a dual core at the same frequency and IPC. The problem is that you need a workload that can be divided into four parts which are not reliant on each other in any way. It's actually not dissimilar to a human workplace. There are some jobs where simply having more staff (like adding more cores) will improve output. For other jobs/tasks however, there will be certain roles or sub-tasks which impact all the others, so having extra staff (like extra cores) will simply result in some people waiting around for chunks of time while the one or two people key people finish those key tasks.

Workloads like video encoding scale really well with extra cores. Because there is an entire video to be rendered, it can simply be chunked into as many pieces as required and each core can operate independently on its own section without impacting or having to wait on the others. In cases like these you can see almost perfect scaling, where a quad core will be pretty much twice as fast as a dual core assuming the same IPC and frequency.

It's much more difficult, on the other hand, to effectively utilise extra cores in most video games. CPUs in video games handle things like collision detection, physics, AI, and the prep work required by the graphics card. But those things are not independent of one another. How can an AI algorithm running on one core know what to do until the collision detection process runs and tells it whether it's been hit by a bullet or not? You can't start submitting draw calls to a video card until you know whether a rocket has exploded or not, etc, etc.

So that's why traditionally games have preferred a few fast cores over a greater number of slower cores. We are starting to see games that scale well with four cores, and core hungry games will grow more common as games get more complicated and developers learn ways of better utilising CPU resources. BUT, even games that scale well with four cores rarely (I'd say never at this stage) actually tax all of those cores equally. What you'll see is one or two cores being slammed 100% and then the remaining cores with some work to do, but they're not being pushed near as hard. That's why dual cores, and particularly i3s with hyperthreading tend to hold up pretty well, even in games that make use of quad cores.

In terms of "quad core as a minimum requirement"... depends entirely on the game. Minimum requirements are often entirely contradictory and nonsense. As I said above, the i3s often hold up really well and in some cases are significantly faster than a (sort of) 8 core AMD processor at 5Ghz. But no doubt there are a few games out there that close to 100% tax two cores, and then still have sufficient work for extra cores such than an i3 becomes a problem... and a Pentium (dual core no hyperthreading) becomes pretty unplayable. At the moment though, those games are pretty rare IMHO.
 
Solution


That depends on a few factors. If we limit the question to staying within the same CPU architecture, the answer depends on the software you are trying to run.

From a purely mathematical perspective, the Quad will be 48% faster then the dual core, when all cores are loaded to maximum capacity. This is the key point; if the software is not able to utilize all the quad cores extra resources, the faster dual core will end up being faster, by virtue of it's higher clock.
 

Cole_9

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It really depends on how many cores your software uses. Typically, the higher GHZ rating per core means that the processor core can take that many instructions to be processed. I have heard of 2.5 GHZ quad core processors that perform about on par with 4.0 GHZ Dual Core Processors. On AMD chipsets, video games like DOOM use usually about 6-8 cores, and other programs i use, like Firefox, tend to use about 1-2 cores. If you are playing Grade A titles, then usually the more cores the better, but thats not always the case. Check the System requirements before you buy software, as that should give you a pretty good estimate of how many cpu threads a game will use.
 

Cole_9

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i agree gamerk316. If the software doesn't utilize quad core technology, then you really won't get any performance gains out of it. Also, the speed of the CPU also really depends on the IPC rate. Intel tends to be better at handling instructions with lower clock frequencies and fewer cores than AMD does, but thats why AMD is cheaper than intel CPU's are. They don't run quite as fast, yet they are a superb value for beginner builders, as well as experienced veterans.
 

Cole_9

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Not to mention if you are using a high end GTX card or something like that, the core i3 can really bottleneck on games utilizing Octocore technology. At least i think it can.

 

Moenator

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So I have read all of your comments and have decide to get an i3-4160,but im kinda also looking at the i5-4460, the only prob is that I currently have Rome 2 and people said that its not optimized for multiple cores so the i3-4160 might be a good choice, BUT Im also planning to buy farcry 4 whihc requires an i5(meaning 4-cores right?) and the i3-4160 support hyper threading, so is it a good choice?
 


OK, so now you have specific hardware and games (like I was asking for at first) we can give you more concrete advice.

What's your budget? Are you upgrading current hardware or are your starting fresh? Are you buying new or second hand?

Why don't you start again, or I'd suggest you actually start a new thread explaining your budget and goals and asking for advice. The problem with your question above is that it depends entirely on your budget. The GPU is by far the most important thing in a gaming rig, so you want to allocate as much of your budget to it as you can. However, at some point, if you can afford higher tiered GPUs, you're going to want a quad core to ensure your CPU is fast enough to keep the GPU busy... So best to give us (or a new thread!) all the information you have and then you can get proper, targeted advice about the best fit for your budget and goals.
 

Karadjgne

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The skylake i3-6100 is stronger than either of those i5's. Those i5's are Haswell cpus. The i5-6400 /6500 are skylake. Whole different setup. The older Haswells are lga1150 and use ddr3 ram, the new skylake are lga1151 and use ddr4 ram. The i3-6100 is also considerably cheaper. It's the better cpu unless you are constantly pushing 4 thread performance, in which case the i5-6500 is better.
 

Moenator

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So an I3 wont last long on games using 4cores like far cry 4?
 


It depends.

In theory, a fast enough single core can run any number of threads just as fast as a slower multi-core chip. It basically comes down to "Are two really fast cores fast enough to get all the necessary work done". In "most" cases, for the i3, the answer is "yes". Sure, you might have very high loading on all cores, but it's fast enough to put out similar FPS to the FX-8350, which has four times the amount of cores, and is clocked faster.
 

Karadjgne

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The i3-6100 has hyperthreading, it uses 2x threads per core, unlike an i5 which uses 1x thread per core. In very heavy cpu usage, @80% load or so those 2x threads start to fill up the cores available bandwidth, so it slows down a little. It's a strong enough cpu that almost all games don't see but maybe 55% at most so it really becomes a moot point, the 4 thread i3 runs games, even Witcher 3, between the performance level of an i5-6400 and i5-6500. It's only with super pc's like pushing a gtx 1080 or sli 1070's on a 4k monitor that the i3 really suffers, but those systems should be running i5-6600k or the i7 anyways. For a lower end budget build, nothing can touch the i3 for performance / dollar.
 

Moenator

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I cant find any i3-6100 int the philippines except for a second hand,instead i found an i3-4170 its also a 3.7Ghz,but it said i can support DDR3 and DDR3L at 1333mhz and 1600mhz @ 1.5V,I have a 1.8V. Would that be okay?
 

Karadjgne

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Not really. The memory controller is inside the cpu. Not only would you be adding a bunch of unnecessary heat to the MC, but Haswell cpus at stock speeds really should be at @1.5v or under. If you had a really good OC going you could maybe go as high as 1.6v, but 1.8v would fry it in no time.

Also, if you are running 1.8v, you are using a much older generation, I'd not be surprised at lga775 or lga1366 or maybe even Sandy-Bridge Lga1155, but not lga1150 or lga1151. This makes a huge difference. You have to match the motherboard and cpu. A Haswell lga1150 cpu will not work at all in an Lga1155 Sandy-Bridge motherboard, physically will not fit.

If you are running a 1.8v DIMM in a lga1150 motherboard and are having issues and think it's the cpu, it is, and thats the reason why.
 
I don't believe any DDR3 RAM is 1.8V. DDR2 RAM was 1.8V at stock, so I suspect the RAM you have (or are looking at) that says 1.8V is actually DDR2 RAM. It's not compatible at all with DDR3. If you're going Haswell (i3 4xxx) you need DDR3.

DDR3 runs at stock at 1.5V, you can get "low power" modules which are 1.35V and some high performance (effectively overclocked) modules that run at 1.65V, but that's the operating range.

If you're on a tight budget (which it sounds like you are), don't waste money on expensive RAM. 1600Mhz DDR3 is just fine. If you can get faster RAM for the same price, grab it, but there's very little benefit. Most motherboards will allow you to load an "XMP Profile" which means the mobo reads the correct memory settings from the RAM and applies them. That will usually work, and if it doesn't, you can just run the RAM at stock 1.5V, 1600Mhz and it should work just fine.
 

Moenator

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But CPU-Z is telling me I have a DDR3 Ram so I dont know whats happening and yeah 1600mhz is the best price/speed cause the different speed really only have little difference in fps