Secondary drive powering down when PC is working

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eagors93

eagors93

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Hello every one,
After 4 days of installing a SSD disc, my PC (I believe it's the PSU - EDIT: it's the HDD) started making a sound as if it's powering down - even though it's still working. Oddly, usually by then the HDD would make a noise as if it's powering on. The sound is hard to explain, it sounds like a power cut, or some component turning off or something.

My PC specs:
AsRock H81 Pro BTC
Intel Pentium G3258
8GB RAM Geil 1600MHz
MSI GeForce GTX 650 Ti 2GB
HDD Toshiba 1TB DT01ACA100
SSD Goodram 120GB
CHIEFTEC GPA-400S8 400W ATX

From what I tested:
- it was present when booting from a pendrive (so non-system related)
- when HDD was uninstalled, it seemed be gone
- this one's interesting: when I remove a laptop with a plugged AC adapter from around the PC, the sound seems to be gone for good (for now?). Could it even be possible that it was causing it from the start? Coming to think about it, it started once I placed that laptop close to my PC tower. EDIT: silly me, it's still present after moving the laptop.

Also, another interesting thing: I mentioned that the same sound is present when my PC shuts down. Oddly again, when I plugged the SSD drive to work along with the HDD, the PC's behavior changed: it shuts down about 3 seconds after the power off sound (at least the fans are still working - they used to stop immediately with that sound). Could all of this, for example, mean that my PSU is faulty or not powerful enough?

Update: now, only the HDD starting sound is present from time to time, and I don't know why.
 
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Kris Degruytere

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Looks like your hdd is taking extra time to 'park' the heads during shutdown, causing a delay before the mb gets the 'all clear' msg and shuts down the powerfeed. Check the powersaving settings of the disk in windows and in the bios.
 
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Epsilon_0EVP

Epsilon_0EVP

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I was going to suggest something similar. It sounds like the HDD is just testing during boot by ramping up speeds, then slowing down to normal operational speeds. I'm not sure the laptop has anything to do with it; maybe it just coincidentally happened to dampen the vibrations when it was on your desk. I'd consider trying to dampen the HDD mounting, specially since the noise went away without the HDD.
 
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eagors93

eagors93

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Thank you for responses. It's really driving me crazy now.

The laptop actually had nothing to do with it.
Kris Degruytere said:
Check the powersaving settings of the disk in windows and in the bios.
Click to expand...
What exactly should I look for? I already turned off the "Turn off disc after" option in the power saving mode in Windows. Also, I've reset the BIOS settings - it didn't help! Why would this problem start on it's own? It was fine until now - I don't understand :(.

[quote="Epsilon_0EVP] I'd consider trying to dampen the HDD mounting, specially since the noise went away without the HDD.[/quote] May I ask, what do you mean by "trying to dumpen the HDD mounting"? Sorry, English is not my native language, and the dictionary explanation doesn't help at all in this case.
 
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Epsilon_0EVP

Epsilon_0EVP

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I meant to say you should try to add rubber mounting or something like that to reduce vibration and noise from the HDD. If your HDD is just screwed into your case, it might transfer vibrations to your case, which amplify the noise. If you use some form of rubber mounting, it should help reduce the noise.
 
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eagors93

eagors93

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But it was fine before - why would it happen all of a sudden? The HDD has been working just fine (without making these noises) for a year now. On the other hand, the SSD lays loosely and unscrewed in the PC tower, because my SATA power cord is too short. But I doubt it changes anything in that case.
 
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Epsilon_0EVP

Epsilon_0EVP

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Yes, SSD's have no mechanical parts, so it would not cause any more noise. The HDD could also be degrading if it didn't use to sound like that. I'd consider backing up any data just in case, and consider getting a new HDD if possible.
 
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eagors93

eagors93

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I have backup covered, so no problem there. Couldn't the problem be PSU related? Might I mention, I had to downclock my CPU back to stock few weeks ago (and my overclock has been stable for months) because it kept freezing. Is it not possible that components are not getting enough power with that PSU? I was also planning to clean the dust off from my unit - any chance that it could be the cause, e.g. PSU fan got too dusty?
 
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Epsilon_0EVP

Epsilon_0EVP

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I actually hadn't noticed the PSU. It doesn't look like an immediate danger like some budget ones can be, but it also doesn't seem to be a particularly good quality unit. Even if it is working properly, I would consider replacing it with a higher quality unit.
 
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eagors93

eagors93

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OK, so the sound is most definitely coming from the HDD. I plugged my old HDD and my PC doesn't make the same sound when I shut it down. So, the sound that I associated with the PSU is from the HDD to begin with. I have a few questions now:

1. Is it starting to fail for sure? Should I check with another PSU?
2. What could have been the cause? Could it be screwed too loosely and was hurt due to vibration (it moves a little bit - but barely - when I unplug the cords)?
3. Is there any chance that it will stop making the sound on its own or anything I can do to make it stop?
4. Could the PSU have damaged the HDD? Any way to test if it's really failing?
 
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Epsilon_0EVP

Epsilon_0EVP

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It's really hard to determine exactly when an HDD is failing. Since they are very much a mechanical device, there are tons of factors that can contribute to them wearing out, so it's really hard to say exactly why its worn down to this point. That being said, loud sound is usually a good indicator that the drive is about to give out, so I would definitely look into replacing it as soon as possible.

In the future, make sure to use rubber mountings, which should be included with your case. They can help prevent damage from vibration, but they won't completely eliminate it; in the end, it's still a mechanical device and it will wear down. Some people have come up with creative solutions, but in the end the drives will still eventually fail.

The annoying part is that once a drive starts to fail, it's near impossible to fix it. Changing the PSU is very unlikely to help, and there's not much you can do to fix it unless you have access to a clean room. I would still try to change the PSU, though; it can't hurt to have a reliable unit from a well-known manufacturer.

To test how the HDD is doing, you can try to run a disk check. Most OS's today have some utility that can check if there are errors in the HDD. However, remember that these tests sometimes don't catch errors until it's too late, and loud noises are already pretty good indicators that something is wrong.
 
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eagors93

eagors93

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Thank you. I verified that the drive makes the shutting down noise usually when it gets inactive, and then - when I try to access a file from it - it makes a starting sound. However, sometimes it makes these sounds without a purpose, it seems (the system is on the SSD), as if it's shutting itself down and restarting on its own.
I performed a disc check via option that appears after right clicking on the drive in Windows and it didn't detect anything. The S.M.A.R.T. of that drive also seems OK, but I guess that doesn't necessarily mean it's not failing?

I guess I'll send the disk back. Luckily it's still on warranty.

As for reducing vibration - will rubber washers around the screws be sufficient?
 
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Epsilon_0EVP

Epsilon_0EVP

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Sometimes the OS will routinely activate the drive to do basic checks, or to access settings files that actually end up on that drive, even if you don't notice. It's perfectly normal for a drive to activate like that throughout the use of a PC.

I would indeed suspect the drive if it is louder than it used to be. Software checks can't always detect mechanical errors in time, which can lead to catastrophic data loss. I would look into trying to replace it if you don't need it right away, specially if it's under warranty.

Rubber washers should help reduce vibration, yes. Most modern cases come with some, usually on the sleds used for mounting onto the case. They won't completely isolate the drive, but should at least reduce some wear. Remember that vibrations and the damage they cause are a common issue for HDD's; it's why data centers pay a lot of money for HDD's that are rated for high vibration tolerances.
 
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eagors93

eagors93

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Sometimes the OS will routinely activate the drive to do basic checks, or to access settings files that actually end up on that drive, even if you don't notice. It's perfectly normal for a drive to activate like that throughout the use of a PC.
Click to expand...
Still doesn't explain why would HDD start doing it on its own, when it used to NOT make these sounds (I would have noticed for sure). The way drive operates have changed without a reason. I see no other point than failing, esp. considering that I've checked everything:
- switching sata ports/cables & PSU plugs (might check on another PSU)
- Windows power management settings
- another OS
- BIOS reset

The HDD used to work flawlessly and all of a sudden - after 4 days of operating 100% normally along with SSD - it starts to make these sounds. It keeps shutting itself down and powering up, when it used to not do this. It sometimes turns itself off after I'm not accessing anything from it, and always makes a power up sound whenever I try to open something. But sometimes it's doing it without a purpose. Of course, there might be some background activity going on, but that still doesn't explain why would its behavior change all of a sudden. After confirming with another PSU, I'll be definitely replacing the drive. Will report back.

Yes, I'll get around without my HDD for a few days/weeks. Good thing I bought this SSD.

I'll try to replace my current PSU soon, but, as you stated - it may not be the cause of the problems. Thank you for your thorough help.
 
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Epsilon_0EVP

Epsilon_0EVP

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I see what you mean now. Yes, it is likely the new noises are strictly from a defect of some sort. The drive will constantly spin up and down, but under normal operation you won't usually hear it over the noise of the rest of the machine. If it has become this noticeable then it is definitely a problem, and it's good to know you can replace it easily.

Otherwise, I'm glad to know we figured out your issue. Feel free to post again if any further issues develop.
 
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eagors93

eagors93

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My full resolution that I've posted on another forum:

I think I've finally solved this mistery.

First off all, as to why HDD started behaving like this after few days of NOT going into power suspend mode. I've been downloading GB's of games from Steam, Origin etc. once I've set up my computer. Since they were being saved to the HDD, it kept the drive busy, which prevented it from powering down. Once I stopped downloading, that's pretty much when the on/off cycles began.

Now, my Toshiba HDD must have some kind of a built-in power management mode. Since the drive became a secondary one (the OS kept it from suspending before I had my SSD), it began entering this power management mode (Windows power options don't affect the drive at all. I even tried setting the power management option to 600 mins, which allegedly helped someone other on the Internet, to no avail).

The only things I know to prevent drive from powering off and on again were:

1) keeping the drive busy - e.g. by program KeepAliveHD
2) disabling HDD's APM mode by CrystalDiscInfo

I've yet to check if the APM setting is saved once I reset, but for now it's been an hour without HDD shutting down. Happily, seems like the drive is not faulty after all.
Click to expand...
 
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