[Advice] GPU Upgrade For My (Older) Rig

evanxcs · Sep 20, 2016

I'm looking for a little GPU advice (so many options and variations right now!). Here is my current system:

ASRock 770iCafe AM3+ AMD 770 + SB710 ATX AMD Motherboard
GIGABYTE Radeon HD 6770 DirectX 11 1GB 128-Bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.1 x16
CORSAIR CX series CX600 600W
AMD Phenom II X4 965 Black Edition Deneb Quad-Core 3.4 GHz Socket AM3 125W
2X (for 8 GB RAM total): G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM
Rosewill R6423-P SL Silver SGCC Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case
ASUS VS239H-P Black 23" 5ms (GTG) HDMI Widescreen LED Backlight LCD Monitor
Windows 7 (64)

What do you think would work best with this existing equipment? Is my older/cheaper mobo going to be a problem with the newer GPUs? I don't think my case should be an issue, but let me know if you think form factor is a concern. I'm not looking to upgrade any other component in the near future, unless something fails. My budget is as close to $200 as possible, but I can go to $250 is there's a strong rationale. I'll be looking to do smooth gaming at 1080p until my monitor goes. I could add a second monitor at some point down the road if that's relevant.

I have seen these 2 cards, and they seem like good deals. But does anyone have another recommendation or any input on which one might work better with my system? Will they fit and work well with my components? Does anyone think these prices will drop significantly for this year's Holiday season?

$240 for an MSI RX 480 4GB
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814137032&cm_re=rx_480-_-14-137-032-_-Product

or

$250 for a Gigabyte GTX 1060 6GB
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16814125879

Thank you!

Ahmadjon · Sep 20, 2016

Your CPU will bottleneck both cards.

evanxcs · Sep 20, 2016

Ahmadjon :

Thanks for the reply. I know it's not the fastest CPU in the world, but I'm a bit surprised to hear that because it's still hanging in there at the 4th tier on Tom's CPU hierarchy (3rd for AMD).

Does that mean you think these cards are overkill, and I should get a cheaper GPU for the same performance increase?

Thank you for elaborating (if you do)!

jeffredo · Sep 20, 2016

A GTX 950 or RX 460 is about the tops you should bother with. The Phenom II will seriously choke anything more powerful than that. I doubt you'll have any issue with your motherboard being compatible with new cards. Most incompatibility issues were with premade computers (HPs, Dells) from the late 2000s and a GTX 750 Ti.

Ahmadjon · Sep 20, 2016

Check out this. http://www.hardwareunboxed.com/gtx-1060-vs-rx-480-in-6-year-old-amd-and-intel-computers/

amtseung · Sep 20, 2016

Your CPU might bottleneck the newer GPU's at stock clocks, but it's a 965BE, so you can get a decent CPU cooler and overclock the balls off of it, then I'd be hard pressed to find a GPU it'll bottleneck within your price bracket.

Between the RX480 and the GTX1060, I'd pick the RX480 for no reason other than price. You will be limited by being stuck with PCIE Gen2 instead of the newer Gen3, but GPU's don't typically hit the bandwidth limit of Gen2 under gaming loads anyway.

evanxcs · Sep 20, 2016

Thanks for all the replies! Very helpful so far, and very much appreciated!

Ahmadjon :

VERY interesting read, thanks for the link. Almost the exact same cpu (except mine's a 3.4 GHz instead of a 3.2). It's very clear that the CPU is preventing either GPU from doing its best. However, those are still some fairly impressive frame rates for very high or even ultra settings on modern titles. My current setup wouldn't even touch those rates and probably wouldn't even run at those settings.

I guess my question is: does it make sense to spend less on a lesser card now, and will I still get comparable FPS at those settings when using said lesser card?

A GTX 950 or RX 460 is about the tops you should bother with. The Phenom II will seriously choke anything more powerful than that. I doubt you'll have any issue with your motherboard being compatible with new cards. Most incompatibility issues were with premade computers (HPs, Dells) from the late 2000s and a GTX 750 Ti.

Thanks for this advice and info! I found this RX 460 4GB for $130.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125897&cm_re=rx_460-_-14-125-897-_-Product

Does anyone think this is a smarter choice than the more expensive cards in my original post? Does it make sense to spend the extra $115-$120 to get a more powerful card in case I upgrade or overclock my CPU in the next few years, or should I just spend just the $130 now and hold off on everything else?

Also, can my mobo even handle the newer generations of CPUs? Or if I wanted to upgrade, would I have to put everything in a new mobo? I'm hesitant to do a mobo upgrade until way down the road.

Your CPU might bottleneck the newer GPU's at stock clocks, but it's a 965BE, so you can get a decent CPU cooler and overclock the balls off of it, then I'd be hard pressed to find a GPU it'll bottleneck within your price bracket.
Between the RX480 and the GTX1060, I'd pick the RX480 for no reason other than price. You will be limited by being stuck with PCIE Gen2 instead of the newer Gen3, but GPU's don't typically hit the bandwidth limit of Gen2 under gaming loads anyway.

Thanks for this advice! I could definitely look into OCing the CPU if that would help (good, cheap, quiet fan recommendation?). However, after looking at the link from Ahmadjon, it looks like the 1060 tends to do better on older systems (especially the min FPS). Yet again, depending on what people say to the above questions, I may just go the 460 route and save some money, while still getting pretty great performance.

Thanks again everyone! I'm getting an education over here!

Ahmadjon · Sep 20, 2016

I recommend you to get the cheaper card because to the time you'll upgrade the whole system the more expensive card will be outdated so i think it's not worth getting more expensive card. Go for 460. Next year new cards will arrive and 1060 (IMHO) will be outdated very quickly.
Sorry for bad English. I try to do my best)

evanxcs · Sep 21, 2016

Ahmadjon :

Your English is very good dude. Thanks again for the advice. I guess I'll do some research to see how a system like mine would perform with the 460, and then maybe just go that route (saving a few bucks along the way!).

Just as a last shot in the dark: does anyone know the "best" reasonable cpu that would work in my current mobo (above)? Is it even worth the upgrade, or should I just wait until I can get a new mobo+cpu?

Ahmadjon · Sep 21, 2016

Better to wait. Don't bother with other CPU's because the whole platform is outdated 2-3 years ago.

amtseung · Sep 21, 2016

evanxcs :

Funny enough you ask that, because you are currently running the best CPU for that platform for gaming. Period. I personally ran a 965BE as an experiment before, and overclocked it to 4.6ghz on an older iteration of the Cooler Master Hyper 212 (yeah, before the evo version). I found it rather difficult to bottleneck even my buddy's Strix GTX 970 without super unbalanced games like Planetside 2 and TERA, which make even the most powerful and expensive of CPU's wince and shudder under those loads.

Back on topic, I still think there's you have a better chance scoring something like GTX680, R9 285, R9 380X, or something of that nature on the used market on ebay for the same amount of money as a brand new GTX960 or RX460, and outperform it slightly. If you can score two GTX570's for like $45 each, you can have a pretty beastly SLI GPU set up for less money. Pretty much, finding a card that was flagship 2-3 generations ago, which should be on par or slightly better than current gen low-end cards, would be my recommendation. Unless you play a lot of DX11 and DX12 titles, there's almost no reason not to get more performance for less money.

evanxcs · Sep 21, 2016

amtseung :

Very interesting about the OCing and my cpu relative to my mobo. Sounds like regardless of what route I go for upgrading the GPU, I would at least mitigate my CPU bottleneck to some extent if I buy a relatively inexpensive cooler and OC (don't think I'd go for 4.6 GHz without some kind of arctic water source though!!!). Of course, a cooler would probably be handy for a new CPU down the road too, so seems smart.

Towards that end, are either of these a good choice, and which do you think I should go for? The "plus" has a $10 mail-in rebate which does make it $20 instead of $30. But they both have off the charts reviews.

$30: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO - CPU Cooler with 120 mm PWM Fan
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16835103099

$30 but $20 after MIR: Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus - CPU Cooler with 4 Direct Contact Heatpipes
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16835103065

And of course, thermal paste:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA0AJ3KM0696&cm_re=thermal_paste-_-35-100-007-_-Product

The only thing that scares me is the prospect of tearing off the stock fan without destroying my cpu or mobo! I've heard it helps to run the cpu at load for a while to heat up the old paste first.

Thanks again!

amtseung · Sep 22, 2016

evanxcs :

To be fair, any CPU cooler from a reputable company that has a 120mm fan strapped to it is going to be good enough just to try it out. Cooler master, Zalman, Scythe, Cryorig, whatever, within the same price bracket, they'll all perform roughly the same. It's not going to be ideal, but for a moderate overclock, or even a moderately high overclock, you don't need water cooling. Just follow the guides posted on the myriads of websites and youtube videos out there, take it nice and slow, and keep a close eye on temps while you stress test. Know what the TJMax (maximum operating temperature) of your CPU is, and use the AMD Overdrive program to monitor your temps. Most temperature reading programs and apps tend to read AMD temps funny, but Overdrive will always tell you how many degrees C you have until you're overheating, not what your temps actually are. Having the right amount of thermal paste helps too, as too much or too little will make your temps worse than they should be.

The AMD cooler mounting system involves a tension bracket that functions much like a leaf spring on the back of a pick up. Loosen the latch on one side, unhook both sides like a bra, and lift it off. If it's stubborn, give it a little twisting motion, back and forth, until you break surface tension and the thing releases itself, like a bra that's too small. (I'm going to get roasted for this horrible joke.) You have to pull pretty damn hard to break the socket off a motherboard, and it'd be even harder to break the CPU without breaking the socket first. THAT'S NOT WHAT SHE SAID. Dammit.

There's always a first for everything.

evanxcs · Sep 28, 2016

amtseung :

Thanks for the tips! Very helpful! So two developments:

1) While looking at CPU fans for OCing, I noticed that my case does NOT make installing a fan back plate or bracket easy. In other words, I'd have to take out the entire mobo to put the mounting plate on, and I'd rather not do that. So does anyone know a good, cheap non-bracketed CPU cooler to use? This seems ok:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16835103064

2) I know people are steering me away from the 1060, but am I crazy or is this a really good deal?:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814133634&cm_re=gtx_1060-_-14-133-634-_-Product

$180 after MIR for a PNY 1060. Hard to argue with only an extra $50 vs. the RX 460. However, I don't know much about the brand, maybe I should just stay away?

Thanks again!

amtseung · Sep 28, 2016

The Hyper TX3 is barely adequate for overclocking. AMD CPU's are also notoriously hot, so your temps won't be ideal.

If you want a 1060, get a 1060. $180 for one sounds like a steal. None of the rest of us are going to be using that computer, and none of us are paying for it either. In the end, it's up to you.

evanxcs · Sep 28, 2016

amtseung :

Hmm, thanks again! Know any non-bracketed CPU coolers you can recommend? Or is not really worth it unless I go with a bracketed cooler?

amtseung · Sep 28, 2016

The Cryorig H7 seems to not require an additional backplate/bracket for AMD mounting, as long as you don't let the existing one drop out the back while you're fiddling with it.

Dammit I really want to get my own H7 so I can experience the Cryorig cooler hype first hand.

evanxcs · Sep 28, 2016

amtseung :

Wow, that's a nice looking cooler. Would definitely fit in my mid-sized case too. However, I can't find anything that says, shows, or illustrates how to install it without using the additional backplate/bracket. It looks like it requires the special screws that go through the included backplate. Let me know if you find any guide or video showing how to do it!

[Advice] GPU Upgrade For My (Older) Rig

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