High CPU and GPU

LordMikeus

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Sep 23, 2016
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Right, this only started the past few days. When I play Overwatch, on low graphics or the ones recommended by Nvidia Experience, I am having my fps shoot up and down. The sound has a bit of static and the game is laggy, impossible to be accurate or even play since nothing is consistent. On Elder Scrolls Online, I have a similar problem except FPS normally stays at about 60 and then randomly drops and causes lag, once the drops start they repeat. This happens pretty much the second I get on the game, for both games. I dunno what specs you guys need to help if any but I'll put some below. On my Task Manager when not doing anything or just using something like Chrome casually, I have a CPU of about 1%. Using Youtube this shoots up to about 20% more or less. However, on Overwatch this maxes out and has random points it maxes out on ESO too. I haven't tested any other games yet but the really irritating part of all this is that it didn't use to happen. It's pretty sudden, especially for Overwatch which I play often. On MSI afterburner, pretty much most things max or have spikes where they max. All the CPU temps are max, the GPU usage is maxed and a few other things max too. I've used MSI with Overwatch before and this didn't happen. It's really frustrating for me.

Specs (Some of them anyway?):

OS Name Microsoft Windows 7 Ultimate
Version 6.1.7601 Service Pack 1 Build 7601
Other OS Description Not Available
OS Manufacturer Microsoft Corporation
System Name MIKE-PC
System Manufacturer ASUS
System Model All Series
System Type x64-based PC
Processor Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4790K CPU @ 4.00GHz, 4001 Mhz, 4 Core(s), 8 Logical Processor(s)
BIOS Version/Date American Megatrends Inc. 2202, 7/11/2014
SMBIOS Version 2.8
Windows Directory C:\Windows
System Directory C:\Windows\system32
Boot Device \Device\HarddiskVolume1
Locale United States
Hardware Abstraction Layer Version = "6.1.7601.17514"
User Name Mike-PC\Mike
Time Zone GMT Daylight Time
Installed Physical Memory (RAM) 8.00 GB
Total Physical Memory 7.94 GB
Available Physical Memory 5.41 GB
Total Virtual Memory 15.9 GB
Available Virtual Memory 13.1 GB
Page File Space 7.94 GB


Nvidia GeForce GTX 660 (Specifically this one I think: https://www.amazon.co.uk/EVGA-GeForce-GDDR5-Graphics-Card/dp/B00966IREK

This is how MSI and the resource manager looks during Overwatch. I print screened right after I came off mid way through a match because I couldn't play like that: http://imgur.com/a/slpsT
 
Solution
A picture of the full inside of your case would be nice. I'd like to see if your case is getting enough airflow.

That thermal paste looks kinda grimy, but that's probably just the compound. You've got a proper amount and a fairly even spread. You also got the lucky batch of stock CPU coolers that have the copper slug in the middle, another plus. When you stick the cooler back on, make sure the plungers are pulled all the way out so the outer barbed pins go all the way through, and make sure you twist and push the plunger until it properly clicks into place. It's really finicky, I know, and it may require some foul language.

Just give me the make/model of your power supply. I can look up the rest from there.

You have a blower style...

LordMikeus

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Sep 23, 2016
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Could be a faulty PSU, RAM and many other things. Download Prime and see if the CPU/RAM is stable first. You could try redownloading the drivers and wiping them with Guru DDU.

Re downloading the drivers didn't help. I'm currently getting about 80% CPU usage at times just using YouTube in full screen. Do you mean Prime95? And how long should I test for?
 

amtseung

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A good 20-30 minute run of Prime95 is all you'll need. Run the blend test, as small fft is mainly for thermal testing, and you need that ram usage of the large fft test. You can also try running the built in windows memory tester thing for RAM to see if you've got dying RAM sticks. I kinda doubt it though.

I'm curious if you aren't maxing out system memory (RAM) usage. It says you've got 8GB installed, but it's only got 5.41 available. Check to see how much RAM you have listed as "hardware reserved". If you've got over 100-150mb in there, something's not quite right.

Try killing all background processes and see if that doesn't help. Uninstall stuff you don't need. If your CPU is hitting 80% just watching youtube and it isn't 10 years old and you aren't streaming 8k video (I torture my older computers sometimes for giggles, don't judge), I'd look at background processes as the main source of the problem. Do you have autodownloaders/installers running in the background? Anti-virus/security systems? Is malware running rampant? Your GPU usage looks fairly normal, and your CPU usage seems to spike with GPU usage, indicating that at least your system isn't mistimed.

Edit: It's called the Windows Memory Diagnostic Tool, at least on Windows 8 and newer.
 

LordMikeus

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I found details on Memory in the Resource Monitor.
It says Hardware Resered as 58mb. 3330ish In Use. 63 Modified. 4697 Standby. 0 - 100 Free but most the time was 0.
This was during a Malware Bytes scan though. After the scan it was about 157 free. That was the only change really. I will try turning off as many processes as I can without crashing PC but I dunno if all the stuff running behind the scenes like auto updates show up on Task Manager for me to stop? And I'll do the other checks now too.
 

LordMikeus

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Alright, I used Prime95 for half an hour. The first tests finished after 20 min or so and passed though. PC did the tests fine while things like Razer Synapse, Malwarbytes, Avast etc were open. The Windows Memory Diagnostic found no problems either. Malwarbytes found a few problems that I removed. And then I tried turning off as many programs as I could and I went through the services list adn turned off what I thought was safe to turn off. So far, none of this helped. I still go on Overwatch and the game freaks out even though I could play it not long ago.
 

amtseung

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Synapse doesn't play well with a lot of games. In fact, it's been known to trigger several widespread anti-cheat programs.

Running multiple security programs at once, especially on top of Window's own security system, is a really, really horrible idea. They're all attempting to filter each other's traffic, which leads to a needlessly costly feedback loop that eats all your CPU and RAM usage over time. Given that Overwatch is an online game, all your programs are constantly fighting for resources and run time to do all their filtering, leaving your game in the dust to run off of what's left. Try disabling them all through resource monitor/task manager (you can't get a virus while playing a client-based game, which has its own anti-cheat and security programs running; how else would they filter profanity?), or even uninstalling them, and see if performance doesn't increase.

Watch Linus explain why.
 

LordMikeus

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I already tried turning off everything I could. This included all my AntiVirus, Razer software etc but none of that helped
 

amtseung

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I looked back through the rest of this thread, scrutinizing it for details.

In your initial post, you said you maxed out your CPU temps? That's not good. In fact, that's horribad. Can you confirm?

80% CPU usage while fullscreening youtube?? Are you purposefully benchmarking 8k/60fps streaming? Otherwise, that's not normal. When I'm running youtube fullscreen at 1080p60, I'm using on average 15-20% of my CPU, and 4k will push that up to about 47-50%. 8k just murders my system, and pins me at 100%. It's strange though, since you say above that your idle CPU usage hovers around 1%, and Youtube browsing pushes you to 20%, which is very normal. So is it 20% or 80%?

Your GPU temps look good, seeming to hover around 53-55C under full load. I wonder what your CPU temps are under load? From what it looks like on that afterburner graph, when you're going through menus, you're pinned at 100% usage on a very light load. You then hit 0% usage as the loading screen is essentially a still image. As you get in game, your load decreases steadily over time until you ragequit. I think something is throttling somewhere, and I think it's your CPU.

Between standby ram and free ram, is functionally the same thing. Free ram simply means that it's never been written over for the time your PC has been on, and standby means it was written at one point, but cleared and released as ram to be used later. I think your ram is perfectly fine.

I would like you to try a couple of things, and see if they don't help.
1.) In afterburner, take that power limit slider and max it to the right.
2.) Lower your screen render percentage (whatever it's called in overwatch) to an obscenely low number, so that it looks like garbage. Does your fps rise significantly?
3.) Crank shadow, particle, decal, and ambient occlusion to maximum, turning off any Nvidia-proprietary features like PhysX, while turning everything else to a minimum, leaving the screen render percentage maxed out. How does that fps change from what you used to play at?
4.) Do the exact opposite of 3.) while leaving physX off. How does that change the fps?
5.) optional: run prime95 torture test with small fft's for about 15 minutes. What are your CPU temps?

I'm trying to figure out if it's a CPU or GPU limitation, and whether or not it's a hardware or software issue. 1.) eliminates bios limitations. 2.) lowers load across the entire system. 3.) loads the CPU hard, and minimizes GPU load. 4.) does the opposite of 3.) Keep an eye on temps and utilizations during 2-4 of both your CPU and GPU.
 

LordMikeus

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Hi, YouTube tends to be around 20% when I'm on 720p full screen. Sometimes spiking to higher results like the 80%. As for the CPU temps, that's what it said on MSI on CPU 1 down to CPU8 although I don't think all of them had results for CPU Usage as some of them aren't doing anything I think? My GPU tends to rise steadily during Overwatch and stops in the 70's. If I don't have the fans sped up on MSI it will hit 80 and crash although I'm not sure if the temp is the reason Overwatch would crash like that.

As for your recommendations, I have done 1,2 and 5. I did test 2 at the very lowest settings for everything and the minimum render scale was 50%. I don't know about PhysX so can you tell me how to turn it off before I do those tests? In my Nvidia Control Panel it is set to use both CPU and GPU although I tried with just GPU and that changed nothing. In Overwatch, the fps changes a lot and quickly so it's hard to play and audio is crackly. The fps is set to cap at 60 by me but it jolts between 0-60, normally somewhere in the middle.

Both 1 and 2 of your suggestions didn't have any affect on fps at all. This is a screenshot for problem 2 of CPU in Resource Manager and the top stuff for MSI: http://imgur.com/a/pEr2H

As for number 5's stress test, the temps of my CPU maxed out at 100 I think and had about 85-95% usage although that's what is shown on Real Temp. A screenshot is here: http://imgur.com/a/Zo8wV

I did tests 1 and 2 with as little running in the background as possible.

Here is the Resource Monitor for CPU usage while I had a Youtube video up of H1Z1: http://imgur.com/a/a75QT
 

amtseung

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There are two conclusions I can come to.

1.) Your CPU temps are too high. 100C is where a CPU will hit the absolute thermal limit, give up, and shut down. Your motherboard has done a damn fine job keeping you at 99C so you don't fry your CPU. As your temps go over the safe limit of 74C, your clock speeds will steadily drop, and as your CPU grinds to a halt and information traffic backs up, your frame rates jolt all over the place, and your audio gets crackly. That was a key piece, since audio decoding and playback is handled entirely by the CPU. Bad CPU performance will ruin audio codec performance.

Your GPU is barely being used at all (it's only using 40% of the available 110% power limit). The GPU relies entirely on the CPU to send it information so it can draw the frames to send to your monitor. If the GPU isn't receiving that information fast enough, it sits there and waits, resulting in hiccups in framerate.

Check your CPU cooler and make sure it's mounted properly. While you're at it, check to make sure it's got enough thermal paste in there. There's too much if it's oozing out the sides, and too little if you haven't covered at least 75% of that top surface. You should be no more than 20C above ambient while doing light tasks like watching Youtube at 1080p or less. Also, check your case airflow situation. Do you have at least 1 intake and 1 exhaust fan? Are they both spinning, and fast enough? Which case do you have? Do you need more case fans? (I think you might need a better CPU cooler and better case airflow if temps are still high after this.)

The images from your initial post are incredibly similar to the images from your most recent post. I highly suspect this first conclusion.

2.) You're not receiving enough power to you components, exacerbating the problem. Which motherboard and power supply do you have (make/model)? There are a different set of symptoms which would demonstrate this, but a PC not receiving enough power could potentially force itself to sit at a low power state all the time, not letting you make full use of how powerful the hardware is. I highly doubt this one though, since you'd be experiencing failures to boot and frequent random shutdowns, or even corrupted bioses. Like an idiot, I totally forgot to ask earlier, so this a highly unlikely, but still possible outcome, ontop of 1.)

Let us know what you find.
 

LordMikeus

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Sep 23, 2016
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Hi again, my PC has 2 fans spinning inside although the BIOS seems to only recognize one; I'll put a pic below:
http://imgur.com/a/4uPPJ

I also don't know anything about cooling. I'll put a picture below of the cooling paste and if there is a problem, please give me a step by step of how to fix this and apply more if needed. Thanks!
http://imgur.com/a/03Znv

As for my power, it is 450W and I don't know how to check if the problem is with the power?
If easier I can also show a pic of the inside of the PC and where the fans are if you feel they could be the issue although I think it must be something more important than the fans as this happened suddenly very recently?
 

amtseung

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A picture of the full inside of your case would be nice. I'd like to see if your case is getting enough airflow.

That thermal paste looks kinda grimy, but that's probably just the compound. You've got a proper amount and a fairly even spread. You also got the lucky batch of stock CPU coolers that have the copper slug in the middle, another plus. When you stick the cooler back on, make sure the plungers are pulled all the way out so the outer barbed pins go all the way through, and make sure you twist and push the plunger until it properly clicks into place. It's really finicky, I know, and it may require some foul language.

Just give me the make/model of your power supply. I can look up the rest from there.

You have a blower style GPU, which also, coincidentally, is one of the best dust magnets in the house, besides a vacuum cleaner. I suggest carefully disassembling it and cleaning it out as thoroughly as possible, remembering to clean off the old thermal compound and reapplying some new stuff, and not losing any of the thermal pads inside. A quick youtube search can definitely help more than me attempting to explain it in words. I suck with words. A graphics card cooler packed with dust can't cool anything, and while your system is partly disassembled for troubleshooting, may as well give it a thorough clean while you're at it.
 
Solution

LordMikeus

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Okay, there are pictures below. I went trough GPU but I have no cooling paste, I cleaned dust and put it back together without changing paste. Is that okay?
As for the CPU, I dunno what you mean by plungers? Is it the black and white things at the four corners that you press in? Because 1 is missing the black thing, another is broken a bit and the other 2 are not in top shape. However, I can firmly press one half of the CPU in and one corner is a little bit helpful but the last corner isn't pressing the CPU on at all

http://imgur.com/a/4xJ7t
 

amtseung

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It's kind of ok to do that with the GPU, but not ideal. I hope it doesn't start overheating now. I also hope you cleaned the metal heatsink, not the PCB. xD

So... That's why your CPU temps are so high. The CPU cooler can't just be resting on top. It has to be clamped with a certain amount of pressure to the CPU to guarantee the largest contact patch possible. Get yourself a new CPU cooler. If a Hyper212 or Cryorig H7 will fit in your case, buy one. If those are too big, get the Hyper TX3. I know the Cooler Master CPU coolers come with a pretty big tube of thermal compound. I don't know about the Cryorig stuff, which is why I'm tempted to buy one of my own.
 

LordMikeus

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Yeah, I cleaned all the metal bits under the place where paste is and all the heat mat things. How can I tell what coolers will fit my PC? Are there any other things you would recommend because I honestly don't know a lot. I'll get hold of coolant paste as soon as I can for the GPU too but does the type of paste or anything matter? And I'll look into getting a new CPU cooler too. Thank you for all your help, you've been amazing!
 

amtseung

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When I mean cleaning the heat sink, i mean cleaning this lump of metal that lives between the metal surface in your picture and the fans. I hope the picture I linked works. It's the heatsink of a blower style graphics card cooler which is older than yours, but they're typically assembled the same way. It's also dusty AF, which is what happens when it sits in a server for 8 years and is never cleaned.

Which PC case do you have? If you can find the make/model, you can google it, and usually, you'll find CPU cooler clearances listed in millimeters. Take that number and subtract 3mm, and that will be the CPU cooler height value that you know will definitely fit. Then look up the CPU coolers themselves, and their heights will be listed in mm also.

And while you have your PC open and out, you should give this a go.
 

amtseung

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The Phantom 410 will give you roughly 165mm CPU cooler height clearance. The Hyper212 is about 162mm tall IIRC, and most 120mm fan heatsink towers are about that height, so you should be fine.

Cleaning the inside of a PC with a brush is generally a horrible, horrible idea. Friction on synthetic fibers is the fastest way to build up static electricity. One accidental touch to exposed PCB with that charged brush will ruin hardware easily. People hate on PC cleaning with a vacuum cleaner, but even that is safer than a brush. You should try the Carey Holzman method. Or just get yourself a 3pack of compressed air cans for like $9. They'll come in handy more times than you'd think.
 

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