Dead Msi GTX760 ?

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Jesse Pieterse

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May 27, 2013
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Built a computer comprising of ..

P67-UD3-B3 Motherboard
FSP Hexa + 500w PSU
GTX760 MSI twin frozr GPU
8GB RAM

2x hp prodisplay p221 monitors

Having a problem where the computer will hang/crash. It will sometimes recover and say that it was an nvidia graphics driver crash, sometimes it will hang and artifact then will require a reboot. Sometimes the artifacts will continue to show themselves during the boot + bios screens.

Bad gpu? Bad mobo? Bad psu?

Ruled out ram as have changed sticks and slots used.

Any help or input is really appreciated. Cheers..
 
Solution
amtseung
I would give up suspecting the motherboard. There's no way anything on the motherboard is causing this. It's either power supply, graphics card, or both.

If you can borrow a higher quality power supply, do it to test. You also need to keep an eye on the rated 12V continuous output of the power supply. For example, your current one is 432W spread across two rails. While, theoretically, it is enough to power your system, there are always real world losses during transmission and at every physical joint (plugs, VRM's, energy lost as heat, etc.). Refer to the Tom's PSU Tier List for higher quality units, and I highly, highly recommend buying one with a single 12V rail over dual rails.

If a different, better power supply doesn't fix it, it...
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amtseung

amtseung

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That's a bad GPU, bad PCIe slot, and/or a bad display cable. All of them will cause artifacting, as noise introduced into the system corrupts the display signal. A bad motherboard will introduce many other problems (it probably wouldn't even detect the GPU as a display device), a bad HDD would cause your system to hang but not artifact, and a bad PSU would just... fail to power your system. Your PSU is rather weak, with two 12v/17a rails, but if it really was too weak to power your system, it'd probably fail to boot more than it would hang when it's already running. You say the artifacting persists through a reboot and into the bios screen, eliminating drivers as the cause of the problem, as drivers aren't loaded until your system has finished posting and the OS is being loaded.

I think, somewhere along the chain, something is being corrupted, and the artifacting is a symptom of the corruption that is causing your system to hang. Bad GPU bios chip? I don't know.
 
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Jesse Pieterse

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Yeah I've switched between the 2 pcie slots to no avail so I think it's time to upgrade the GPU I suppose. Anything you can recommend that is around around this sort of performance that will suit my power supply well? I'd like to be running BF4 at high or maybe even ultra with playable fps.
 
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amtseung

amtseung

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Before you jump into buying new components, I think you should verify if anything else is faulty as well. Do you have integrated graphics on your CPU? If you do, try plugging in the displays, one at a time, into the motherboard and see if you can get a clean signal. If you can't, I'd blame the cables and/or monitors more than I'd blame the graphics card.

BF4 on high/ultra on two 1080p monitors? GTX 1070? GTX980 or 980ti on clearance? GTX1060 if you only play on one of the two monitors? The little devil on my shoulder is saying "water cooled, crazy overclocked HD7970 GHZ edition", but please don't. Nvidia cards just tend to work better in games using DX11 and older. DX12 and async compute performance is a completely different beast.
 
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Jesse Pieterse

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i5 2500k does have integrated graphics but my mobo doesn't support it. I only use one monitor for gaming and the other for facebook/youtube/music etc. This gtx760 can nearly play ultra but dips a bit low at around 50fps averages about 80fps.

 
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Jesse Pieterse

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Tried gpu in another computer and ran furmark and it did perfectly fine.

But put into my pc again and still does it, tried underclocking and giving it a bump in voltage but still happens, tried different pcie slot, DDU with clean insta of drivers did something TDR delay trick did nothing. Funny thing is I was playing skyrim fine on ultra for about an hour and it went fine, closed skyrim and it started artifacting and required a reboot, along with it being on desktop screen it crashed as well.
 
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amtseung

amtseung

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Is this highly modified Skyrim, or vanilla skyrim?
Are you playing through steam, or are you steam cracked? A lot of us modders, back in the day, would steam crack the game because steam overlay used to cause a lot of issues really similar to what you're describing, with CTD's and BSOD's. This problem was fixed for a while, and then after Hearthfire, it came back.

I wouldn't be surprised if a highly modified skyrim was causing frequent dips, particularly LOD mods with ENB, 8k texture packs, floral overhauls, big tiddeh physics mods, etc. Your FPS at that point would rely heavily on how optimized your mod load order is (and thus began the long series of self-made compatibility patches), and how optimized your storage devices are.

Alt-tabbing with Steam overlay enabled had always been a big no-no. I don't know about nowadays, since I abandoned steam as a gaming platform/hub years ago.
 
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amtseung

amtseung

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Does this crashing-after-alt-tabbing thing happen when playing any other game, or is it just Skyrim?

If it's just Skyrim, then yeah, it's probably just the nature of shader mods combined with coded hardware inflexibility. You might want to check for compatibility patches just in case. The mod nexus would be a good place to start.

If it occurs with other games, it's probably drivers or a dying VRM on your graphics card, of which the latter is highly, highly unlikely.
 
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Jesse Pieterse

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Its happened while idle on desktop with nothing open, crashes during and after BF4, CSGO etc. I'm going to try molex to 6pin adapter and see if that does anything for the PSU, getting super annoyed at this point as I have no idea what it could even be.. plays games completely fine, then crashes when its got less load?
 
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amtseung

amtseung

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Ahh, good to have more information.

Your power supply has two 12v rails. When you're plugging power into different components, you have to balance the load across both rails. Knowing that the motherboard and CPU power typically power off the same rail, you'd have to make sure everything else that takes 12V pulls power off the other rail to prevent overloading the first.

When crashes start occuring after the load has been removed, it's typically a symptom indicative of the GPU's bios and/or control software going slightly haywire. What's likely happening is that as the card downclocks while the load is being lifted (like alt-tabbing), it drops voltages as well, which is very typical behavior, except it's either dropping too much voltage so the GPU loses stability and crashes, or the power doesn't come back up quickly enough through the 6 or 8 pin power plugs when the load is reapplied (or the voltage stutters from the power supply rail being overloaded), the PCIe slot then tries to pull the brunt of that power, the motherboard's protections kick in, and the computer crashes. (Holy run-on sentence.) Skyrim ENB and shader mod issues don't make this any better.

As a last ditch effort, try using afterburner to force constant voltage (it may require some rebooting and things with admin control) and disabling ULPS (ultra low power state). You can experiment with molex to 6pin adapters, but make sure it's the dual molex to 6pin. I doubt it'll change very much. Your power supply comes with two PCIe power connectors, so I assume they're already strapped to the correct rails to distribute load. You may also want to disable any PCIe power savings features in bios just to make sure (ASPM comes to mind).

 
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Jesse Pieterse

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I've been able to replicate the problem, ran kombustor a few times and it runs fine in any stress test and or benchmark, however again when I close the benchmark it will be fine for a couple seconds then the drivers will crash, then it may or may not recover. I can also hear a slight squeaking noise in sync with whatevers on the screen coming from the gpu? leaky capacitor? bad ram?
 
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amtseung

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Mmmmmm.

That slight squeaking, in all likelihood, is coil whine. It typically happens when your GPU tries to run as fast as possible.

If you suspect a leaky capacitor or something, you can take screwdrivers to your graphics card and fully disassemble it, and check the heatsinks and thermal pads and the PCB itself for discoloration, misshapen capacitors/chokes/vrm's, and/or strange oily liquids.

Kombuster and Furmark and GPU stress tests like that are pretty notorious for busting graphics cards with weak power delivery design. When you run those, you really have to keep your eye on it. I'd begin the physical examination of your graphics card PCB with the VRM's, both the bank of those for core, and the vrm's for memory. The 0.96V rail is probably untouched, since it doesn't really do very much.

Try running Unigine Heaven or Valley instead of Kombustor. Does it still artifact after you close the benchmark? I have a hunch I know what's wrong, but I want to be sure before I go spouting nonsense. ;)
 
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amtseung

amtseung

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"Sometimes the artifacts continue into the boot + bios screens."

"Tried gpu in another computer and ran furmark and it did perfectly fine. But put into my pc again and still does it..."

Unstable power delivery. The other computer runs fine with the same graphics card, so the graphics card is not at fault. It's something on your (main?) computer that's doing it. It's either your power supply that's toast, or you're running some overclocking/control utility (afterburner, precision X, etc.) that's bringing up corruption and/or conflicts. Are you overclocking that card?
 
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Jesse Pieterse

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I've forced constant voltage and have underclocked both the memory and core clocks by 60 while increasing voltage by 2mv. This is through MSI afterburner.

Would you suspect motherboard at all, or should I borrow a powersupply that's higher wattage and see how I go
 
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amtseung

amtseung

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I would give up suspecting the motherboard. There's no way anything on the motherboard is causing this. It's either power supply, graphics card, or both.

If you can borrow a higher quality power supply, do it to test. You also need to keep an eye on the rated 12V continuous output of the power supply. For example, your current one is 432W spread across two rails. While, theoretically, it is enough to power your system, there are always real world losses during transmission and at every physical joint (plugs, VRM's, energy lost as heat, etc.). Refer to the Tom's PSU Tier List for higher quality units, and I highly, highly recommend buying one with a single 12V rail over dual rails.

If a different, better power supply doesn't fix it, it may be time to retire that graphics card, stroke it gently while putting it to bed, and replace it with a new one.
 
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Jesse Pieterse

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All good, I'll steal my friends powersupply for a bit and see how it goes.. if the cards dead I'll end up just upgrading both gpu and psu, future proof myself from these shenanagins again. Thank you for all the help man, much appreciated!
 
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