Will Phenom II X4 B97 bottleneck GeForce GTX 980 Ti ?

John_489 · Oct 23, 2016

My set up is AMD Phenom II X4 B97 3.2 Ghz in a HP Compaq 6005 Pro SFF with 8GB RAM. Wanted to upgrade my GPU to EVGA GeForce GTX 980 Ti 6GB DDR5 and I'm aware I'll get some form of bottleneck I just wanted to know how bad it would be. Of course I'll upgrade the power supply and if need be RAM but unfortunately I'm not able to upgrade the motherboard.

Anyway would I be able to run games such us Hitman, GTA V, dare I say Battefield 1 on high settings maintaining 50 -60 fps on a 1920 by 1080 res? Is the bottleneck that bad that this would be asking for too much?

clutchc · Oct 23, 2016

Yep, there will be massive CPU bottleneck in all but the most massively GPU-limited games. Not a deal breaker if you are getting the GTX 980 Ti dirt cheap. But way more GPU than the Phenom II X4 can keep up with. And your CPU will always be running at 100% usage while gaming. So make sure it is cooled well.

photonboy · Oct 23, 2016

Hey,
It depends on the game, but you'd probably get about 60% of the performance on average vs a good i5/i7 and the same GPU.

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/57615-amd-vishera-fx-6300-fx-4300-review-12.html

Your CPU is close to the X4 945.

Those are just a few games. Note in SOME games that are far more GPU loaded the CPU bottleneck might be minimal.

John_489 · Oct 23, 2016

clutchc :

Well I was going to get a GTX 750 Ti (or 690) as I thought it to be the perfect fit for my rig but I've been offered the GTX 980 Ti for only 150$ and I thought why the hell not!

My only issue is that I'm not sure I understand bottleneck as a concept fully. Does it mean that the GTX 980 will have a worse performance than the 750 because of bottleneck?

clutchc · Oct 23, 2016

John_489 :

No, the 980 Ti will ALWAYS have better performance than the GTX 750 Ti. CPU bottleneck simply means the processor is holding the GPU back from its fullest potential. You'll be buying more card than the CPU can keep up with... meaning the gfx card will hardly ever be running at full potential.

But for $150, I'd still get it over the $100-$120+ GTX 750 Ti. But of course, you'll need to spend more $ for a better PSU. So...

John_489 · Oct 23, 2016

photonboy :

Nice. Wish there was an updated version of the benchmarks but it was helpful none-the-less

John_489 · Oct 23, 2016

clutchc :

John_489 :

No, the 980 Ti will ALWAYS have better performance than the GTX 750 Ti. CPU bottleneck simply means the processor is holding the GPU back from its fullest potential. You'll be buying more card than the CPU can keep up with... meaning the gfx card will hardly ever be running at full potential.

But for $150, I'd still get it over the $100-$120+ GTX 750 Ti. But of course, you'll need to spend more $ for a better PSU. So...

PSUs here are dirt cheap so I think I'll just go for the 980 Ti. Thanks

clutchc · Oct 23, 2016

"Dirt cheap" PSUs are usually low quality dangerous units, rated far above their actual capacity. You will need a high quality 600W PSU (or better) with a 6-pin and 8-pin PCIe connector. Power supplies are one item that you truly do get what you pay for.

John_489 · Oct 23, 2016

clutchc :

Damn. I just assumed getting a PSU would be easy. Seems I may have to upgrade PSU if I were to go for the 690 too

clutchc · Oct 23, 2016

John_489 :

Yes. The dual GPU 690 requires a 620W (min) with 2 x 8-pin connectors.
Why not spend an extra $50 and get a GTX 1060 3GB or a RX-470 4GB? Are you still running the stock Compaq PSU? If so, what wattage?

John_489 · Oct 23, 2016

clutchc :

John_489 :

Yes. The dual GPU 690 requires a 620W (min) with 2 x 8-pin connectors.
Why not spend an extra $50 and get a GTX 1060 3GB or a RX-470 4GB? Are you still running the stock Compaq PSU? If so, what wattage?

Yeah I'm running the stock PSU AT 240W. I'm guessing those options won't require a PSU upgrade. And actually a better GPU than the 750

photonboy · Oct 24, 2016

Dual-GPU 690 is one of the worst graphics cards I would suggest.

I would NOT get a GTX1060 3GB if you can get a GTX980Ti 6GB for $50 cheaper. Yes, it's used but it's also a bit faster and more importantly has more video memory.

BOTTLENECKING:
Let me explain in a bit more detail.

Going BACKWARDS the monitor draws stuff on the screen. That is coming from the GPU. Before that the CPU had to tell the GPU what to draw, as well as do non-graphics related stuff.

So...
1) If the CPU is too slow, then it can't send the draw call requests etc to the GPU. Thus the GPU is left waiting. That's a CPU bottleneck.

2) If the CPU is fast enough, the GPU can be fully used (unless you cap the frame rate). This is a GPU bottleneck. (a GPU bottleneck is a bottleneck to the monitor)

Again, it varies by the type of game. For example, in Starcraft 2 there may be a lot of battle calculations bogging down the CPU. In Tomb Raider on the other hand there can be much less CPU as it's more about the graphics.

*The better the GPU compared to the CPU the more likely the CPU is to be the bottleneck because the CPU simply can't give it instructions fast enough to keep it occupied.

photonboy · Oct 24, 2016

240W PSU?

Nope.
Use pcpartpicker but basically:
a) 500W or better
b) use the 6/8-pin graphics power connector as a guide (make sure the power supply has them)

While you can use adapters for power if you know what you are doing, it's best to simply buy one with 2x6-pin if that's what you require. I guess a GTX980Ti would likely be 1x8-pin + 1x6-pin? Note that:

2+6-pin = 8-pin

clutchc · Oct 24, 2016

John_489 :

240W! There really isn't any decent card you can use with that tiny PSU. Especially if it has a similarly poor +12V rail. You might get by with a GT 730 64 bit DDR5 as max you can safely use.

(You're not mixing up volts with watts, are you?)

John_489 · Oct 24, 2016

I think I'll end up playing more GPU intensive games than CPU so I'll experience minimal bottleneck. I'll just buy the 980 with and spend the extra $$ on the PSU. Long term I think it will be a better investment.

And yes I checked.. written in caps it said maximum power 240W lol

However a concern I picked up today that I can't seem to get a clear answer on the internet is that will both this upgrades ( the 980 with the new PSU) fit in my SFF?

clutchc · Oct 24, 2016

SFF! You should have mentioned that in the beginning. Or did you, and I missed it? No. You need a low-profile gfx card for a SFF case. The GTX 980 Ti is 100% out of the question. As are the other cards talked about. What case do you actually have?

John_489 · Oct 24, 2016

clutchc :

First thing I mentioned lol
Damn not even an RX 470?
Do you mean dimensions?

John_489 · Oct 24, 2016

Well I've opened it up and i see no reason why a dual slot card wouldn't fit in there. I don't plan to use the nearby PCI slot. Or are there other factors to consider?

John_489 · Oct 24, 2016

photonboy :

Dual-GPU 690 is one of the worst graphics cards I would suggest.

I would NOT get a GTX1060 3GB if you can get a GTX980Ti 6GB for $50 cheaper. Yes, it's used but it's also a bit faster and more importantly has more video memory.

BOTTLENECKING:
Let me explain in a bit more detail.

Going BACKWARDS the monitor draws stuff on the screen. That is coming from the GPU. Before that the CPU had to tell the GPU what to draw, as well as do non-graphics related stuff.

So...
1) If the CPU is too slow, then it can't send the draw call requests etc to the GPU. Thus the GPU is left waiting. That's a CPU bottleneck.

2) If the CPU is fast enough, the GPU can be fully used (unless you cap the frame rate). This is a GPU bottleneck. (a GPU bottleneck is a bottleneck to the monitor)

Again, it varies by the type of game. For example, in Starcraft 2 there may be a lot of battle calculations bogging down the CPU. In Tomb Raider on the other hand there can be much less CPU as it's more about the graphics.

*The better the GPU compared to the CPU the more likely the CPU is to be the bottleneck because the CPU simply can't give it instructions fast enough to keep it occupied.

Meant to ask why is the dual gpu a bad card? Seems to have good specifications?

clutchc · Oct 24, 2016

Was this your PC? http://www.negustore.com/products/images/HP-Compaq-6005-Pro-SFF-1-x-Phenom-II-X2-B53.jpg
If so... these are the fastest low-profile cards I'm aware of at present:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&IsNodeId=1&N=100007709%20600038363%20600038364%20600451269
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127836

John_489 · Oct 24, 2016

clutchc :

Damn. Wish i had better options lol.. Thanks

Will Phenom II X4 B97 bottleneck GeForce GTX 980 Ti ?

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