Looking for Suggestions on a Server Build

D1erri · Oct 27, 2016

Not sure if you guys can assist with a server build for a small/medium company but any help would be greatly appreciated.

Approximate Purchase Date: e.g.: In the next 2 weeks

Budget Range: Looking to stay under $1,200, but looking unrealistic. Willing to use NOS/refurb'd parts from Amazon

System Usage from Most to Least Important: Need 1TB (Thinking in RAID 1) for server storage, then need to have 3-5 virtual machines that will run a client software that doesn't use much resources. Usually there will just be 1-2 people using the VMs at a single time, but trying to 'future-proof' (if possible) to having 3-4 people on at a time in about a year from now.

Are you buying a monitor: Yes

Parts to Upgrade: Full server build

Do you need to buy OS: Yes - Must be Windows 7/8 Pro or Windows Server 2008/2012 - I'm leaning towards Windows Server 2012

Preferred Website(s) for Parts: newegg.com, amazon

Location: South Florida, USA

Parts Preferences: CPU must be Intel Xeon

Overclocking:

SLI or Crossfire:

Your Monitor Resolution: Not a huge deal but would prefer 1920x1080

Additional Comments:

And Most Importantly, Why Are You Upgrading: We are getting new software that requires a host and client to be on the same local network, but we need to be able to access the client software remotely - Certainly open to other solutions other than VMs to avoid Windows OS licensing costs.

Edit: after further research, I'm thinking about going with Windows 8 Pro and then have separate Win 8 Pro licenses for the VMs. It appears Windows Server 2012 wouldn't give me anything additional and would get significantly more expensive considering I would need the Standard version which only includes 2 VMs.

bambiboom · Oct 28, 2016

D1erri,

For this use and in this budget, a used dual Xeon workstation seems to be a good solution.

If the source must be Amazon, consider:

DELL WORKSTATION T7600 2 X INTEL XEON 8C E5-2680 2.70GHz 32GB RAM 2 X 1TB HDD < $1,000

Of course there are hundreds of choices on Ebahhh.

That particular system has two Xeon E5-2680 8-core @ 3.7 /3.5Ghz, 32GB of RAM, and two 1TB storage drives. This means 16 cores /32 threads, which means being able to dedicate a core to each VM, making the system quite expandable. A pair of new E5-2680's cost $3,400+, so the use of depreciated CPU is extremely good value.The GPU is not mentioned but the demands are not very high and really almost anything is adequate for setup and monitoring, perhaps a used Quadro K620. Consider increasing RAM to 64GB and using 8GB of RAM as the guide to the number of VM's.

Another system to consider is the HP z820.

This kind of system should have very good performance and the highest level of reliability and workstations they are very quiet, unlike servers that have to be in separate rooms. I've had six used workstations since 2008 and had 100% reliability.

Cheers,

BambiBoom

HP z420 > Xeon E5-1660 v2 / 32GB / Quadro K4200 / Samsung SM951 256GB + Intel 730 480GB+ WD Black 1TB

HP z620 > 2X Xeon E5-2690 / 64GB / Quadro K2200 / HP Z Turbo Drive 256GB + Seagate ES.3 Constellation 1TB

D1erri · Oct 28, 2016

bambiboom :

D1erri,

For this use and in this budget, a used dual Xeon workstation seems to be a good solution.

If the source must be Amazon, consider:

DELL WORKSTATION T7600 2 X INTEL XEON 8C E5-2680 2.70GHz 32GB RAM 2 X 1TB HDD < $1,000

Of course there are hundreds of choices on Ebahhh.

That particular system has two Xeon E5-2680 8-core @ 3.7 /3.5Ghz, 32GB of RAM, and two 1TB storage drives. This means 16 cores /32 threads, which means being able to dedicate a core to each VM, making the system quite expandable. A pair of new E5-2680's cost $3,400+, so the use of depreciated CPU is extremely good value.The GPU is not mentioned but the demands are not very high and really almost anything is adequate for setup and monitoring, perhaps a used Quadro K620. Consider increasing RAM to 64GB and using 8GB of RAM as the guide to the number of VM's.

Another system to consider is the HP z820.

This kind of system should have very good performance and the highest level of reliability and workstations they are very quiet, unlike servers that have to be in separate rooms. I've had six used workstations since 2008 and had 100% reliability.

Cheers,

BambiBoom

HP z420 > Xeon E5-1660 v2 / 32GB / Quadro K4200 / Samsung SM951 256GB + Intel 730 480GB+ WD Black 1TB

HP z620 > 2X Xeon E5-2690 / 64GB / Quadro K2200 / HP Z Turbo Drive 256GB + Seagate ES.3 Constellation 1TB

Thanks BambiBoom, that system looks great.

Minding checking out this one?
It's about half the price but still seems pretty solid. I doubt we'd ever have more than 5 VMs running at a time.

bambiboom · Oct 28, 2016

D1erri,

The HP z600 in the link is a very good system. Overall, A Xeon E5 would be preferable and that will have DDR3-1600 or 1866 (instead of 1333), USB 3.0 and an SATAIII 6GB/s disk. I'm a big fan of LGA1366 and have a similar system (mid-range Dell workstation) Dell Precision T5500 (2X Xeon X5680 / 48GB / Quadro 4000 / Samsung 840. The z600 and T5500 are equivalents in the line.

I wish the CPU in the z600 was one or two steps faster- the X5670 2.93 or the X5680 3.33Ghz, but 2.66 is OK for a server. The disk system is 3GB/s, but a 6GB/s RAID controller can be added like the LSI 9260. On Passmark benchmarks, there are 74 z600's using the X5660 and top CPU Mark is 13070. That system has a Quadro 4000 (3D= 1975) and Samsung 850 Pro (disk score of 2668) For comparison, in the T5500, using a PERC H310 controller (=LSI 9217) a plain Samsung 840 scores 2749 and the Quadro 4000 3D is 2030. There are 106,T5500's using the X5660 and the top CPU score is 13503, so the Precision does get a bit more from the X5660. A T5500 /Quadro 4000 / Samsung 850 Evo has a top disk score of 2665. If I were buying an LGA1366 system, I'd look at HP z800 or Precision T7500 (extra drive bay, 1100W PSU) using the X5670 or above. One other consideration is that adding USB 3, and RAID controller to modernize may mean the cost is only $200-300 difference from the T7600 and the z600 is two generations older technology without as strong an upgrade path.

One other alternative is to consider a single Xeon system, for example:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-Z420-Workstation-2-90GHz-8-Core-E5-2690-8GB-RAM-No-HDD-No-OS-/172347742007?hash=item2820b9d737:g:Xu4AAOSwPCVX~lXZ > $515 or offer

That's an HP z420 with a single Xeon E5-2690 (8-core @ 2.9 /3.8Ghz, original cost $2,057)) and the top CPU score is 14671- higher than the top pair of X5660's.

This other important parameter is the single-thread rating in view of the number of single-threaded applications. The X5660 has a Passmark single-thread rating of 1295 whereas the E5-2690 thanks to it's 3.8GHz turbo speed makes 1869- fast enough for 3D modeling / simulation in Solidworks -with a good GPU.

Also, the z420 as it has a UEFI BIOS so it can use M.2 AHCI which is not the case with any LGA1366 that I know about, And, M.2 is the future. If you use M.2 on a PCIe adapter card as I do in the z420 (Samsung SM951 256GB AHCI on Lycom DT-120), it frees both SATAIII ports so it could run a RAID 1 at 6GB/s rating without adding a RAID controller card. The z420 will have a problem with NVMe although I'm told the Samsung 950 Pro has a legacy BIOS to run NVMe on these 2013 antiques. The disk score in my z420 is 11559. If you think the number of VMs will be 7 or less, a fast 8-core E5 might be just the right recipe.

The listed system would need to add RAM (DDR3-1600)- and 64GB should be the target, but it's already SATAIII 6GB/s and USB 3.0. The top rated z420 /E5-2690 / Radeon HD 6850 system has a system rating of 4432 with a CPU score of 14671 and the top rated z600 /X5660 system is rated 3701 with a CPU score of 10574.

It's a complicated equation.

Cheers,

BambiBoom

D1erri · Oct 29, 2016

bambiboom :

D1erri,

The HP z600 in the link is a very good system. Overall, A Xeon E5 would be preferable and that will have DDR3-1600 or 1866 (instead of 1333), USB 3.0 and an SATAIII 6GB/s disk. I'm a big fan of LGA1366 and have a similar system (mid-range Dell workstation) Dell Precision T5500 (2X Xeon X5680 / 48GB / Quadro 4000 / Samsung 840. The z600 and T5500 are equivalents in the line.

I wish the CPU in the z600 was one or two steps faster- the X5670 2.93 or the X5680 3.33Ghz, but 2.66 is OK for a server. The disk system is 3GB/s, but a 6GB/s RAID controller can be added like the LSI 9260. On Passmark benchmarks, there are 74 z600's using the X5660 and top CPU Mark is 13070. That system has a Quadro 4000 (3D= 1975) and Samsung 850 Pro (disk score of 2668) For comparison, in the T5500, using a PERC H310 controller (=LSI 9217) a plain Samsung 840 scores 2749 and the Quadro 4000 3D is 2030. There are 106,T5500's using the X5660 and the top CPU score is 13503, so the Precision does get a bit more from the X5660. A T5500 /Quadro 4000 / Samsung 850 Evo has a top disk score of 2665. If I were buying an LGA1366 system, I'd look at HP z800 or Precision T7500 (extra drive bay, 1100W PSU) using the X5670 or above. One other consideration is that adding USB 3, and RAID controller to modernize may mean the cost is only $200-300 difference from the T7600 and the z600 is two generations older technology without as strong an upgrade path.

One other alternative is to consider a single Xeon system, for example:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-Z420-Workstation-2-90GHz-8-Core-E5-2690-8GB-RAM-No-HDD-No-OS-/172347742007?hash=item2820b9d737:g:Xu4AAOSwPCVX~lXZ > $515 or offer

That's an HP z420 with a single Xeon E5-2690 (8-core @ 2.9 /3.8Ghz, original cost $2,057)) and the top CPU score is 14671- higher than the top pair of X5660's.

This other important parameter is the single-thread rating in view of the number of single-threaded applications. The X5660 has a Passmark single-thread rating of 1295 whereas the E5-2690 thanks to it's 3.8GHz turbo speed makes 1869- fast enough for 3D modeling / simulation in Solidworks -with a good GPU.

Also, the z420 as it has a UEFI BIOS so it can use M.2 AHCI which is not the case with any LGA1366 that I know about, And, M.2 is the future. If you use M.2 on a PCIe adapter card as I do in the z420 (Samsung SM951 256GB AHCI on Lycom DT-120), it frees both SATAIII ports so it could run a RAID 1 at 6GB/s rating without adding a RAID controller card. The z420 will have a problem with NVMe although I'm told the Samsung 950 Pro has a legacy BIOS to run NVMe on these 2013 antiques. The disk score in my z420 is 11559. If you think the number of VMs will be 7 or less, a fast 8-core E5 might be just the right recipe.

The listed system would need to add RAM (DDR3-1600)- and 64GB should be the target, but it's already SATAIII 6GB/s and USB 3.0. The top rated z420 /E5-2690 / Radeon HD 6850 system has a system rating of 4432 with a CPU score of 14671 and the top rated z600 /X5660 system is rated 3701 with a CPU score of 10574.

It's a complicated equation.

Cheers,

BambiBoom

That was an excellent read Bambiboom. Thank you very much for all of that!

The seller on ebay you referenced also has a 'build your own' listing. The pricing is a bit screwy (choosing 8GB over 64GB of RAM increases the price??). Here's the one I'm thinking for $609:
1xE5-2690
64GB RAM (Do I need to ask if this is DDR3-1600 and registered ECC or is that assumed?)
500GB HDD (Win 7 Pro installed)
Quadro K600 1GB

The only thing I'd have to add then is 2x1TB HDDs in RAID 1 - Keeping me well under budget!

Have you seen the HP Proliant DL580 G7 Server? 4x X7542, 64GB RAM, 2x 300GB for $407 OBO?? That sounds like a beast if you were looking for a rack mount

bambiboom · Oct 30, 2016

D1erri,

That custom spec z420 seems reasonable. You might ask them about the cosmetic condition and see if they can select for appearance. I have a Quadro K600 in a Dell Precison 390 and it is perfectly good for this use.

I think an LGA1567 server with a non-hyperthreading CPU is not a good approach on several points, mainly that the CPU choice means that upgrade possibilities are very limited. Also, there is the extreme server noise.

The RAM should be DDR3-1600 ECC unbuffered,

Cheers,

BambiBoom

D1erri · Oct 30, 2016

bambiboom :

Thanks again for your help. Much appreciated!

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