Need opinions and discussion about highest end watercooling and hardware

Yes, it will be possible.
He'll have to front mount a 240mm rad though, and have a 360mm rad top mounted.
I suggest EKWB components and XPSC 240mm and 360mm rads, as you can use EK's QDC feature to hook up graphics water blocks to the CPU loop etc.
Tell him to get three Fractal Design HP-12 fans, and two HP-14s, all running from the inside pushing air out, with one 140mm HP-14 at the back.
If he's running with that hardware he might as well download and install the S&K Photorealism mod, it looks insane.

Nah, Titans don't output that much heat.
280mm works, I meant to say that above, but I said 240 instead! xD
Strange since I mentioned fans for a 280mm, my bad.
Leave the thread open, always good to get more opinions.

If he doesn't know anything about watercooling, assembling loop pieces a la carte runs the risk of him forgetting something, or getting incompatible parts. Take a look at EK's new kits ( I reviewed two here ). It comes with all the necessary parts in the box, which is nice for first-timers.

If he doesn't overclock a lot, a single 360 rad would probably suffice. But if he's trying to peg everything, you'd need 480mm at least. The most cost effective way I'd go about this is ordering the L360 kit and then buy an additional PE240 or CE280 rad with proper fans and two compression fittings ( 16/10 for the L kits ). Whole things should be under $400. That's assuming his GPUs already come with waterblocks and fittings.

If he wants to spend more money, the P360 kit has a better waterblock, larger reservoir, and stronger pump. Be aware it uses 13/10 fittings instead of 16/10.

It is indeed a bit small, get this: https://www.ekwb.com/shop/ek-xres-140-revo-d5-pwm-incl-pump
Also for fans get the Fractal Design HP-12s or HP-14s, they look good while having similar performance to the Noctua static pressure oriented fans and running quiet.

Do not get the HP-14 with that radiator. It's a 140mm fan, and even though it has 120mm mounts available, the fan itself still 140mm x 140mm.. Meaning you can place one of them on a single 120 fan mount, like the back of your case, but you can't mount them side-by-side on a 120mm based radiator. Best you could do is put one at each end of a 360mm radiator, leaving the middle empty.

There's nothing wrong with the Vardars, considering they were designed specifically for radiators. The HP fans are quieter because they can't spin as fast. Rated fan specs are given for the maximum speed, thus faster fans will almost always be rated "louder." However, the Vardars are rated at 33.5 dBA @ 2200 rpm opposed to the HP-12 31.7 dBA @ 1800 rpm. At the same speed, they'd be practically identical in noise. The F4 Vardar has a greater maximum speed, higher maximum airflow, and higher maximum static pressure should you need it. Don't forget, the XE radiator is 60mm thick, more than twice the thickness of typical 25mm radiators. You're going to want all the pressure you can get to blow through that monster.

And since the radiator is so thick, you'll need to make extra sure you have enough clearance to mount it in your case. Again, most typical liquid cooling solutions need 50mm clearance inside the case minimum ( 25mm for radiator, 25mm for the fans bolted to them ). The XE is already thicker than that on its own. With fans, you're looking at 85mm. You might find a case that can mount fans on the outside, under the shroud, and put the radiator on the inside, but you'd need to specifically shop for a case that can do that.

Finally, adding a second GPU after the fact is not something you do with hard tubing since it often requires you to change out half the tubing or more.

That's why I said 'or HP-12s' depending on what radiator size he settled on....
Fan specs are generally very hand picked, so I don't really trust them unless i've tried them personally.
I tried the Vardars upon release and they were quite loud, (140mm) so that's just from me.
If they've revised them or something go for it, but I have a personal dislike for them.

You may have intended to imply that, however your last post said nothing of radiator size. Without a qualifier of any kind, it implies the HP-14 would work on his previously selected triple 120mm radiator.

On some, perhaps. EK's fans are as advertised. You can check my results in my official review for EK's Performance kits ( link left previously a few posts up ).

I can understand that. However as I have used them extensively, I'm speaking from first-hand experience that they perform quite well in terms of airflow, pressure, and noise. This is coming from someone who's used a Noctua D15 cooler extensively.

A larger fan will always be louder than a smaller fan at the same speed. A larger fan can simply move more air at the same RPM as a smaller one, so they generally don't need to spin as fast to get suitable airflow for the application.

Any fan will be loud if it's running 2000 RPM or more. An F3-140 at half speed ( ~1000 RPM ) is almost inaudible from three feet away. Stick it in a case and it's even quieter.

The Vardar iterations ( F1, F2, F3, . . . ) simply add a faster maximum speed and better PWM control. Noctua has a reputation for quiet fans, but notice none of their regular 120mm or 140mm models go over 1500 RPM. Noctua is just really good at getting the most out of their blades at lower speeds. However, to get one spec'd close to an F4 Vardar, you need an NF-F12 PPPC-2000, which is just as loud as the Vardar at full speed.

I like Noctua and Fractal Design fans and how they prioritize low acoustics. The Define R4 is my go-to case recommendation. However when you're looking at a radiator more than twice as thick as most on the market, you need to prioritize static pressure over noise. If you want silence, you either need thinner radiators ( and likely more of them ), or a push/pull fan configuration. However, a push/pull on an XE 360 is 110mm thick, meaning you need a case with ~4.5" of clearance to mount it.

Good to know that EK have maintained the quality standard they've gained over the last few years.
I've ordered some in, i'll give the updated ones a whirl I suppose.

Make sure you get the ER models as they have the better PWM range ( can go down to 20% duty ). Like I said, they won't be quiet at full speed ( 2200 RPM for the 120mm, 2000 for the 140mm, even faster if you get the F5 variety ). The faster speed just means they can move some extra air when it's called for and the wide PWM range helps you dial in the best fan speed for your desired balance of cooling/noise.

I am also currently picking parts out for a loop! I am not confident enough in my knowledge of watercooling to give you advice in that area.

Anyways, I just wanted to recommend the Noiseblockers B12 series of fans. They are BY FAR the best fans I have ever used. They are pretty good at static pressure, and absolutely destroy everyone (Yes, even Noctua) when it comes to noise. I have 6 B12-2s and they are silent, quieter than two Corsair AF-140s (Weird comparison, but it was what I had on hand when I got the Noiseblockers).

The B12-4s would be great for this build, they push a lot of air and probably are quite silent. If he wants the ultimate PC, you need some quality, sexy fans.


As far as the case goes, I think it should be fine. Is this the ATX or micro ATX version? I am assuming it is ATX. Anyways, I was actually looking at doing a watercooling build in that case a few months back, as it can hold quite a bit of rad space given its mid tower size. It has a pretty clever pump mounting solution, but I have not tried it for myself.

Good luck on your endeavors!

Will do, cheers.

Did you even bother doing research before posting this? You need to compare all the fan specs, not just the dBA. Noctua P12 vs B12-2: both 1300 RPM and yes the B12 is quitter at 16.7 dBA compared to 19.8 for the Nocuta. But the Noctua has much higher airflow and almost double the static pressure. Considering anything under 20 dBA is practically silent, it's a moot point.

Next, Noctua F12 vs B12-PS. Both 1500 RPM, the B12 is 1 dBA lower ( 21.2 to 22.4, meaning it's a wash ), but once again the Noctua has a huge pressure advantage ( 2.61 mmH2O to 1.475 ). And as I have not tested the NB fans, I have no idea if their advertised noise is accurate to reality.

Well yeah, that's a 1300 RPM fan. Those don't make a lot of noise. You can get many sub 1500 RPM fans that would be near silent. My question is, "What are you using six fans for?" As you said, you're gathering parts for a loop, making me think you're using six fans in some weird air cooling pattern. Fans that are good for air cooling are not always good for radiator applications.

There is no B12-4S fan. Are you referring to the B12-PS or are you referring to multiple B12-4 fans? The PS wouldn't be a bad fan on a thinner radiator, but I'd still take the Noctua F12 and P12 over it. I wouldn't use the PS on the 60mm radiator the OP is currently looking at. The B12-4 is far from quiet. At 34.3 dBA, it's the loudest fan thus far mentioned. If you're willing to go that loud for a radiator fan, the Vardar F4-120 has better static pressure and is slightly quieter.

I was recommending the B12-4, the s was supposed to be plural but it is confusing since there is a B12-PS. I cannot personally recommend the 4 pin variants, as I have heard they have some weird whining issue (But, I may be wrong so do not take my word for it).

Anyways...

I actually did quite a lot of research in regards to fans, viewing Martin's Fan testing and lots of fan charts like this. The fan stacks up quite well and is decent (Though I must admit, not the best) at static pressure. The main reason I love these fans is because of the sound signature, which I will get to in a second.

Sound Signature: I realize this sounds weird, but when comparing the noise of fans, dB is not all that matters (Not trying to be condescending, but just want to make sure OP and you guys understand where I am coming from). The B12 series of fans all sound much more pleasant than other fans at the same rpm, even though they may be actually louder. This is true throughout the whole range, from B12-1 to B12-4.

I would never trust a fan manufacter's ratings, that is why Martin's fan testing is so wonderful. He gives both the hard numbers and allows you to hear the fans, deciding which ones are more pleasant than others. I have heard a handful of Noctua fans in person, and while quiet, the Noiseblockers sound quieter to me (This may be due just to sound signature).

Performance:

In regards to performance, the Noiseblockers are not the strongest for static pressure, but they fair decently well. In that chart I linked earlier, the Noctua NF-P12 (1300rpm) tested at 21.9 cfm at 12v through a radiator, the Noiseblocker B12-2 (Also 1300rpm) was admittedly lower at 18.9 cfm, but it was a good amount quieter at 28.8 dB versus the Noctua's 37.9 (This is why to never trust manufacturers ratings, as both companies were incorrect).

I think it is also worth mentioning that the Noiseblocker fans are rather attractive (IMO) when compared to Noctua. They also come with two different length braided cables and are much cheaper (Best price is on PerformancePCs, even though price does not seem to be an issue for OP). They feel realy solid in the hand and I am impressed every time I pick them up.

I hope this clears things up, I am not trying to mislead OP and still stand behind by earlier statement that these fans are excellent. I did hours upon hours of research before setting on these, currently they are currently just cooling with air, but I will confidently use them in an upcoming watercooling build. They are not popular fans, but I have seen quite a few users use them with great success for watercooling (Though most used the B12-3, but you get the point!).


Edit: In regards to those Vardar fans, they seem quite solid. I decided not to go with them for two reasons: A, I think the Noiseblockers look better and B, I thought the Vardar fans had an annoying sound. This second complaint, I do not know how to put in words, but you should hear them for yourself (Or your friend should) in person if possible. At the very least, I would recommend checking out Martin's videos.

I agree with RedJaron here, static pressure and CFM are the two main factors when considering water cooling, as they will be used with rads.
Noise takes a backseat to performance.

That is fair, but I do think it worth pointing out that the Noiseblockers perform decently at static pressure. Everyone has different goals for watercooling, and if you want the best temps, you need something more aggressive than the Noiseblockers (The higher RPM Vardars do well at this, and Deltas if you are deaf!)

I'm well aware of what you mean. Noise pitch, tone, and timbre are important. However, unless one has an exceptionally sharp sound, you generally can't hear it when it's under 30 dBA and inside a case.

You're right to be skeptical, but most listed specs are within reasonable limits of actual performance, else manufacturers place themselves in a pickle with false advertising and liability suits. As someone that has and does professionally review components, the fans I'm listing are ones I've actually used.

Testing airflow after a radiator isn't a bad way of comparing static pressure, however, I have qualms about their testing method ( those straws aren't working the way they think they are ) and it's only on a one radiator. The H80 is 38mm, which is thicker than some, but it's obviously not representative of all or even most radiators out there.

Actually it means you need to read the figures more carefully. Those noise levels are recorded at 10 cm. So unless you plan to have your ears less than 4 inches from the fans, those numbers don't mean much. Most advertised noise levels are recorded at 1m away. Sound pressure follows the inverse square law, meaning at ten times the distance, the sound is 1/100 as intense. Decibels are on a logarithmic scale, where an increase of 10 dB means the sound is ten times more intense. This means the recorded sound pressure level on those charts are 20 dB higher than what you'd actually hear if your head was 1m away from your computer. Meaning the 17.9 dB recorded in that review falls right in line with Noctua's advertised 19.8 dB.

The Noctua NH-U12S CPU cooler uses an NF-F12 fan, one I've mentioned here a few times. You can see in this review that even with the extra turbulence of blowing through a cooler fin stack, it stays under 30 dB from 1m away. A quick check of one of the NF-P12 fans I have with me gives a reading of 25 dBA at 1m, and that was in a regular office, not a sound controlled lab.

People have long complained about the Noctua color scheme, but it's completely subjective. If you don't have a window on your case, you can't see them anyway, so what's the problem?

Noctua's likewise come with a braided cable extension as well as a braided resistor cable for those who don't have any sort of fan control in their system ( either self-contained or on their mboard headers ).

Not so. The B12 series on PerformancePCs is in the $19 - $22 range. Noctua 120mm fans on Newegg and elsewhere are commonly in the $18 - $20 range. Meaning Noctua's could be seen as slightly cheaper. Yes, Noctua's Industrial PPC fans are pricier, but that's due to them being tougher and able to spin much faster. Though very few people use the PPC line in the consumer desktop space.

I'm sure they're fine in their own right. I'm simply calling them into question in the particular application of this thread.

And I commend you for doing that, but you still have missed a few things.

I get your point, but I don't think you're getting mine. The fluid dynamics of pushing air around a cavernous computer case or through the wide open slots of a CPU cooler fin stack ( comparatively ) is very different than pushing it through the much more confined space of a premium, dense fin radiator. One of the most overlooked parts of liquid cooling is not getting the proper fan for the application. An improper fan on a radiator, worst case, makes it barely more than a passive heat sink.

The Noctuas are quietest, with the Fractals and Vardars following suite, although they're all quite close.
Imo the Fractals look cleaner and much better, the Noctuas have an issue with this god awful tan look despite their great performance.
The HP-12s are cheapest at $14 followed by the Noctuas at $18 and the EKs at $24.60 for the white and just under 30 for the black.
http://pcpartpicker.com/product/GqkwrH/fractal-design-case-fan-fdfanventhp12pwm
http://pcpartpicker.com/product/b2vRsY/noctua-case-fan-nff12pwm
http://pcpartpicker.com/product/KFGj4D/ek-case-fan-3831109867624

Get them from Amazon.
The EKs are overpriced imo, about 30 Euros across Europe, eek!
https://www.amazon.it/Fractal-Design-Ventilatore-HP-12-PWM/dp/B00W1KY3IW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1480172595&sr=8-1&keywords=Fractal+HP12
https://www.amazon.it/Noctua-NF-F12-PWM-Computer-Ventilatore/dp/B00650P2ZC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1480172609&sr=8-1&keywords=NF+F12