Advise appreciated: High-Mid-Lvl Workstation build in the making

moegerbyte · Nov 11, 2016

Hello everyone!

I want to enter the dank-build-building community with my first very own (copy-catted) build.

I'm aiming at a future-oriented build mostly for my work as an architect with the occasional game in decent graphics for the next couple of years and I want to use the "better" parts of my current workstation. As a sort of benchmark I will frequently render stuff from the unreal engine (high-quality stills) and want to be able to run Star Citizen sooner or later on a PC that was not a waste of money in three years.

Here's where I got so far: http://pcpartpicker.com/list/44Kx2R

I would love to hear opinions about if this is getting me what I need and I appreciate any suggestions on where I could save money with dropping stuff I don't need or swap for better-fitting parts with just a little more cash or just advise on any really bad decisions

I'll explain my choices here real quick in the order of the guide here:
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/build-your-own-pc,review-33564-2.html

Case: I have an old Cooler Master Elite 332 tower I'd like to use.

CPU:
For 3d applications such as rendering and a bit of video editing I wanted a better core of the consumer section. Intel Core i7-6700K 4.0GHz Quad-Core seemed right, also in terms of future-proofness.

CPU Cooler:
Acting on diverse and anonymous tips on the internet I think of going with:
Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler

GPU:
I'll be using two or three monitors and am currently running an old Radeon HD 7650 (very special lame-limited edition) and recently scavenged an AMD FirePro Vhttp://4800 video card that I'd both like to try for intermediate performance needs. I'm guessing an upgrade to a high-midlevel gaming GPU like a GTX990 will follow later, depending on how much time I will have to play games. I have, however, a broad bandwidth to chose from, as I neither need the most terriffic graphics nor 100% precision in rendering. (Advise appreciated

)

Motherboard:
The Asus Z170-A ATX LGA1151 should fit everything neatly.

RAM:
For the moment I have 8GB (4x2GB) of good quality Kingston and Samsung memory. I don't do a lot of videos, but next time I get annoyed working on a low-RAM workstation I may upgrade (will check out the Best Memory column then).

SSD:
Samsung 850 EVO-Series 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive

My choice is a tip from the net too. Apparently very reliable and good price/cost ratio. I'm thinking about going safer with RAID, but I haven't yet researched and don't know how that works. I'm so far saving my important stuff on different hard drives manually. I realize, this is an important issue though.

As for the side storage of data like pictures and music I have my old hard drives that I'm ok with for a few more months. (I think it's a seagate something and a WD green power)

POWER:
I have a kiss quiet 560w PSU that I hope will suffice for the moment.

Thanks for your time, everyone!

-moegerbyte

Aeacus · Nov 11, 2016

Your build can be improved.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i7-6700K 4.0GHz Quad-Core Processor ($339.99 @ Newegg)
CPU Cooler: Deepcool GAMMAXX 400 74.3 CFM CPU Cooler ($24.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: ASRock Fatal1ty Z170 Gaming K4 ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($97.98 @ Newegg)
Storage: SK hynix SL308 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($65.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Video Card: MSI GeForce GTX 1050 Ti 4GB Video Card ($139.99 @ B&H)
Case: Cooler Master Elite 335 ATX Mid Tower Case (Purchased For $0.00)
Power Supply: Corsair RMx 550W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($96.90 @ B&H)
Total: $752.84
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2016-11-11 09:54 EST-0500

Few words.

Reason why i picked different CPU cooler: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-cpu-coolers,4181.html
Reason why i picked different MoBo: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-motherboards,3984.html
Reason why i picked different SSD: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-ssds,3891-2.html
Reason why i picked different PSU: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-psus,4229.html
About GPU, for extra $20 you get total of 4GB VRAM.

Since you already have RAM, i didn't put one in. Else-ways i would've gone with this one: G.Skill Ripjaws Series 16GB (4 x 4GB) DDR4-3000
pcpp: http://pcpartpicker.com/product/LTvRsY/gskill-memory-f43000c15q16grr
and reason why: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-ram,4057.html

moegerbyte · Nov 11, 2016

I understand these are quite interesting optimizations as the general price is technically the same as my initial ideaand your suggestions make a lot of sense to me. Thanks Aeacus!

As for CPU cooler, MoBo and SSD I agree, thanks for posting the reviews without much talk

Would you think I'd encounter issues with my used Tower, GPU, PSU and RAM though? How much sense does it make to upgrade these parts later (or not at all, as goes e.g. for the PSU as long as I don't need more for a new GPU, etc.)

Don't really wanna make little upgrades (~20$/€) as you suggested for the GPU since I already have these parts - unsless of course there is some good reason that I know nothing about

Aeacus · Nov 11, 2016

You should be fine with your old case. No need to buy new one unless you want a better looking case.

As far as your PSU goes, it took me some serious searching to find the seller's website. And i don't like what i can see from there.
To name the few: no 80+ certificate, no wattage listing on single rails, sleeve bearing fan.
link: http://www.kissquiet.com.tw/KS-560.html

I'm confident that your old PSU is a Tier five PSU.
PSU Tier list: http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/id-2547993/psu-tier-list.html
It's a good idea to get a new PSU. At least i won't dare to use a PSU that is sold by a company which specializes on selling LED lights.

With Corsair RMx 550, you can upgrade your GPU up to the GTX 1070. For GTX 1080 and Titan X series, you need 600W range PSU. Here i suggest Seasonic PRIME 650.
pcpp: http://pcpartpicker.com/product/nn648d/seasonic-prime-650w-80-titanium-certified-fully-modular-atx-power-supply-ssr-650td

About GPU, the closest comparison that i managed to find is FirePro W4170M vs GTX 1050 Ti.
link: http://www.game-debate.com/gpu/index.php?gid=3669&gid2=2296&compare=Nvidia%20GeForce%20GTX%201050%20Ti%204GB-vs-AMD%20FirePro%20W4170M
Note: your W4100 does perform worse than the W4170M used in comparison.

For RAM, you do better with 16GB than 8GB. New RAM also lets you to OC (overclock) it to run with the speeds up to the 3000 Mhz. With old RAM, you might face some issues to get all your 4 sticks working at the same time. And i don't know what speed DDR4 they are but i believe they are under 3000 Mhz.

moegerbyte · Nov 11, 2016

Researched that as well - my PSU is basically a blue-light with a 220V jack. -.- Thanks for the heads up!

I think the RMx550 might just do fine. As for picking a higher wattage I think the Seasonic Prime 650 is too expansive despites it's outstanding review and the Titanium class qualities. In case I need more power, I'm considering the RMx650, which has a decent performance and is in the same price segment - or am I very wrong here? I think the price might be ok, but doubling the PSU budget for 100W more seems to be a large jump. (Is it a trap to save money here?)

Concerning GPU, I made a mistake in my first partspicker list: I have an ATI FirePro V4800, which of course isn't top-of-the-notch, but will suffice for a couple of months to come (my work is more cpu-consuming and I have no time to play currently). My GPU still reaches about 1000 points in the PassMark benchmark (I know, lol: http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/gpu.php?gpu=FirePro+V4800&id=433).

I still don't know if something like a PNY quadro (e.g K2200) or a GTX (e.g.1070) will be the better choice for my needs, because I have no experience whatsoever with workstation GPUs, but I still have time to research and from what I've been reading, prices might drop too soon.

As for RAM: I agree that an intermediate goal should be 16GB or more. I went with your ASRocks Fatal1ty K4 suggestion and that MoBo has enough head-room.

In terms of storage, I am a little curious about M2 SSDs like the "Intel 600p", but I'm also reluctant to buy a half baked cake. Any hint on when it's worth to invest in a PCIe OS storage appreciated.

For me the SK Hynix SL308 (250GB) comes as a good alternative and seems like the best choice.

Aeacus · Nov 12, 2016

For 600W range PSU, you can go with Corsair RMx 650 if you like. Though, i prefer Seasonic PSUs.

Corsair doesn't make their PSUs, instead they buy their PSUs from PSU OEMs. Mostly from Channel Well Technology, while their top-of-the-line AX series is bought in from Seasonic. While Seasonic is PSU OEM and they also sell their own PSUs under their own name. If you look the PSU Tier list then you can see that Seasonic provides PSUs to many famous companies, such as: Antec, Cooler Master, Corsair, EVGA, Fractal Design, XFX etc.
Here's Seasonic's current lineup in 350-750W range,
link: https://seasonic.com/product-category/consumer-products/?filter_wattage-range=33

As far as Corsair RMx series vs Seasonic PRIME series go, Corsair RMx is Tier three while Seasonic PRIME is Tier one. Hence the price difference.

For your workstation build, for now you'll do just fine with Corsair RMx 550. But if you are going to upgrade your PC to be high-end workstation/gaming/OC rig (like my Skylake is; specs in my signature), then using the PRIME 650 would make sense.

Since you made an error showing us your current GPU and now knowing what GPU you really have, here's a comparison between FirePro V4800 and GTX 1050 Ti,
link: http://gpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/ATI-FirePro-V4800-FireGL-V-vs-Nvidia-GTX-1050-Ti/m9332vs3649

And also a comparison between GTX 1050 Ti and GTX 1070,
link: http://gpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Nvidia-GTX-1050-Ti-vs-Nvidia-GTX-1070/3649vs3609

i7-6700K and GTX 1070 is a great match and you'll get a high-end workstation/gaming/OC rig out of it.
Add a 600W range PSU (e.g. Seasonic PRIME 650) and you can run two GTX 1070 in a 2-way SLI without any issues.

Here you have to think through where do you want to go in the future. If you're going with Corsair RMx 550 then the best GPU you're looking at would be GTX 1070. But if you go with Seasonic PRIME 650 then you can go with GTX 1070 in a 2-way SLI or use GTX 1080 or Titan X Pascal. PRIME 650 also offers the best PSU efficiency there is with it's 80+ Titanium certificate.

About M.2 SSDs, for starting out with your new workstation build, i don't suggest going with M.2 SSD just yet. You'll do fine with SK Hynix SSD at the time being. M.2 SSD is worthwhile only when you feel the 2.5" SSD read and write speeds are getting too slow for you.

As far as Intel 600p M.2 SSD goes, it doesn't offer enough performance boost over the regular 2.5" SSD to be worthwhile.
Few comparisons as well, Intel 600p 256GB vs several different SSDs.

M.2 Intel 600p 256GB vs 2.5" Samsung 850 EVO 250GB,
comparison: http://ssd.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-600p-Series-NVMe-PCIe-M2-256GB-vs-Samsung-850-Evo-250GB/m169054vs2977
Note: SK Hynix SL308 performs better than Samsung 850 EVO but the benchmark site doesn't have the SL308 listed for now.

For M.2 SSD and at 256GB range, i suggest you go with Samsung SM951 (MZVPV256HDGL-00000),
comparison: http://ssd.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-600p-Series-NVMe-PCIe-M2-256GB-vs-Samsung-SM951-NVMe-PCIe-M2-256GB/m169054vsm30950

But if you want to go with 512GB M.2 SSD then i suggest Samsung 950 Pro (MZ-V5P512BW),
comparison: http://ssd.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-600p-Series-NVMe-PCIe-M2-256GB-vs-Samsung-950-NVMe-PCIe-M2-512GB/m169054vsm38554

Oh, there is also a 500GB SK Hynix SL308 if you're interested in that,
pcpp: http://pcpartpicker.com/product/w6DzK8/sk-hynix-sl308-500gb-25-solid-state-drive-hfs500g32tnd-n1a2a

moegerbyte · Nov 14, 2016

Thanks again for the input. I made up my mind in the last couple of days and here's the current version of the build:

Case: Cooler Master Elite 332 (mid tower)
CPU: Intel Core i7-6700K 4.0GHz Quad-Core Processor
CPU Cooler: Deepcool GAMMAXX 400 74.3 CFM CPU Cooler
Motherboard: ASRock Fatal1ty Z170 Gaming K4 ATX LGA1151 Motherboard
Memory: My current Kingston / Samsung set-up of 4x2GB, with later upgrade for video editing
Storage: SK hynix SL308 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive
Video Card: currently Firepro V4800 with immanent upgrade to GTX 1070 at a later point
Power Supply: Corsair RMx 550W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply

I thought about the M.2 SSD, but I agree - not worth the money at the moment. But I also increased the SSD size and will buy the 500GB Hynix, because I don't want to bottle-neck the setup at the hard drive and this way I can install a bigger percentage of the programs to the SSD. For only 50€ more is is totally worth it.

I love the idea of running two GTX in SLI, btw!

Currently I run at around 700€ of expenses, without the future RAM and GPU update - that's pretty nice! A pity that most US companies don't ship to Austria, the $ is so low and prices are lower too. I could have saved like 300€ if I had ordered during the election night ^^

cheers
-moegerbyte

Aeacus · Nov 14, 2016

Your build looks good.

I've also seen that prices in USA are cheaper than in Europe. In Europe, we have plenty of different regulations and what not that makes almost everything cost more than it does in the States.

Just for info: two GTX 1070 in a 2-way SLI, at 100% peak, consume about 330W. Add the rest of the system at about 200W and the total peak would be about 530W. That's getting too close when using 550W PSU.

moegerbyte · Nov 18, 2016

Thanks to your constructive help, amongst others

Additionally if you order from here, the availability and delivery times are horriffic for some products. Even Amazon would only 'start' shipping Nov. 28th. -.- Picking up stuff locally adds an average 5-15% to the total price. What a sad globalized world...

However: I kicked the RMx550w and went with it's big brother instead: The RMx 650w is quiet like a passive PSU most of the time, costs only ~15€ more and apparently is very stable. Good €/perf. values and the overall performance convinced me to go with the Corsair instead of e.g. the Seasonic Prime (which allegedly is way ahead in both, price and performance). Additionally I let myself be convinced by the 10 years warranty. I hope it's a good sing.

I'll post an update on the build as soon as I get hold of the first parts and start putting things together!

Current set-up:

Case: Cooler Master Elite 332 (mid tower)
CPU: Intel Core i7-6700K 4.0GHz Quad-Core Processor
CPU Cooler: Deepcool GAMMAXX 400 74.3 CFM CPU Cooler
Motherboard: ASRock Fatal1ty Z170 Gaming K4 ATX LGA1151 Motherboard
Memory: My current Kingston / Samsung set-up of 4x2GB, with later upgrade for video editing
Storage: SK hynix SL308 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive
Video Card: currently Firepro V4800 with immanent upgrade to GTX 1070 at a later point
Power Supply: Corsair RMx 650W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply

Aeacus · Nov 18, 2016

There are also Tier two Seasonic PSUs. In 600W range, you're looking either: S12II-620, M12II-620 EVO, S12G-650 or G-650.
In Tier one, you can find: X-650, Platinum 660 and PRIME 650.
As far as warranty goes, only PRIME series have 10 years. X and Platinum series have 7 years and the rest have 5 years of warranty.

Corsair RMx series will do, especially when you're on the budget and can't spend 200+ euros on PSU alone like i did.

I see that you have 250GB SL308 listed. What happened with the 500GB SL308?

Oh, can you list your Kingston and Samsung RAM part numbers, so that i can look up the CAS latency, timings and voltage? Those three need to match if you want to get all 4 sticks running at once.

moegerbyte · Nov 21, 2016

Oh yeah and sorry - my bad! Those 250GB were just a c+p-typo. Most of the stuff has been delivered until today, naturally I ordered the SL308 with 500GB of capacity: For that special Everyday-Decadent-Roman-Emperor-Comfort

I also picked up CPU, MoBo and received the Cooler and the PSU last Friday

I went with the RMx 650 by the way and I love how you don't even know it's running

I breadboarded MoBo, CPU, Cooler and PSU and (aaalmost) finished the platform tonight - I got to three beeps! Yay!

And well. About that? I'm currently banging my head against the wall in shame as well as trying to kick myself simultaneously - Remember how I wrote about how I had these two pairs of memory set up and running just fine in another (old) i3-503 build and wanted to borrow these for the new machine? Well... idiot-me hadn't considered how the DDR3 and DDR4 are completely different MK and are super-incompatible

fffffffffuu...

Anyway, this leaves me with yet another difficult decision... :/ Having considered the G.Skill Ripjaws 4 suggestion, I'm now thinking that a 4x4GB kit won't be the best solution if I'm planning to go for more later. Actually it would be the cool to just pick up a single 16GB RAM and add more later

But I realize that's might not be entirely possible ^^ (eventhough they're being sold single sometimes ... oO).

The grown-up approach here is to get a reliable top-of-the-notch 32GB memory kit and deal with dat shit just costing money, adding more later in case need arises.

The idea of successively adding more RAM is probably just my fantasy of leaving all the money issues to future-me, right?

The only things I'm pretty sure of are, for one that I don't want to 'block' DIMM space with RAM kits that I'll have to resell or throw if I need more in the future and secondly that I currently don't want to spend more than another 200€ on whatever memory I'll get for that. Does that make sense? :/ What's your opinion on that?

By the way: I just found out that the AsRock Fatal1ty K4 Z170 MoBo does not support two GPUs in SLI. Guess I'll be starting out with a stronger single GPU then. (See here for reference: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/asrock-fatal1ty-z170-gaming-k4-skylake-motherboard,4385.html)

Cheers!

Aeacus · Nov 21, 2016

When you said that you have Samsung and Kingston RAM, i thought they were DDR4 sticks.

For RAM, i'd suggest G.Skill TridentZ Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR4-3000 Memory,
pcpp: http://pcpartpicker.com/product/7htWGX/gskill-memory-f43000c15d32gtz
Reason why: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-ram,4057.html
It's the fastest 32GB RAM kit supported by the MoBo according to the AsRock: http://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/Fatal1ty%20Z170%20Gaming%20K4/?cat=Memory

2nd fastest would be G.Skill TridentZ Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR4-2800 Memory,
pcpp: http://pcpartpicker.com/product/r68H99/gskill-memory-f42800c14d32gtz

3rd fastest would be Corsair Vengeance LPX 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR4-2666 Memory,
pcpp: http://pcpartpicker.com/product/nDx9TW/corsair-memory-cmk32gx4m2a2666c16r
While the 1st and 2nd kits are over 200€ this one should be under 200€.

Didn't look up if the AsRock supports SLI or not. My bad. Thought that this kind of high-end MoBo has SLI support. At least high-end MSI MoBos have SLI support.
Even though your MoBo doesn't support SLI, it does supports AMD Quad CrossFireX and CrossFireX. AMD's CFX has some advantages over Nvidia's SLI. E.g CFX supports more monitors and with varying sizes while in SLI, max is 3 monitors with all being the same size.

moegerbyte · Nov 22, 2016

Don't worry about the SLI-tip. It'll limit my range of decisions, which is a good thing in that case ^^ I need to get my research up to date for GPUs, but as far as I know, the Cuda technology is highly sought after in the 3d creation community, so Nvidia might still be the better choice.

(Very happy I didn't get the Rmx550w though!)

I have a friend offering me his recently bought G.Skill Ripjaws V (2x8GB) F4-3400C16D-16GVK for about 100€ and I'm very tempted. But I guess I'll be selling those myself in about half a year or so, so I'll check out the suggestions you made for sure.
They're all in a very close price range though, so the ~20€ don't really shock me anymore.

One thought though: Could I buy the Ripjaws V (16BG) and add, say a set of 32BG Trident.Z later or is that just plain stupid and will not work?

Aeacus · Nov 22, 2016

The RAM offered by your friend isn't listed in the supported RAM list provided by the AsRock. Here's 50:50 chance if this RAM does or doesn't work in your MoBo. The chance is 50:50 because MoBo makers don't test all the different RAMs that are out there. They only list the tested RAMs.

As far as adding 32GB set to the 16GB set, i need to know each RAM set part number, so, i can look up the RAM CAS Latency, timings and voltage. Those three must match in order to make them work side by side.

moegerbyte · Nov 23, 2016

True, I checked too now that you mentioned it :/ Had to turn him down. It means I'll just have to order a kit. I think I'll go with the G.Skill TridentZ Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR4-3000. I can double that later without issues and it's max. ~30€ of difference to other kits in that price segment.

edit: just found a kit for under 200€ and it's shipping. I'll post an update and possibly pics when I get the next set of parts

moegerbyte · Jan 5, 2017

Update:

Went with the G.Skill TridentZ Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR4-3000 and I'm VERY content.
The only old part I'm currently using is the GPU (ATI FirePro V4800) and the PC is outperforming my personal expectations. It even runs Star Citizen alpha 2.6 relatively ok in FHD (low FPS and not an exactly smooth experience...) but I get stable playable frame rates at lower resolutions or windowed game.

For my work the computer is currently optimal, all 3d Applications run fast as f*** and I'm bouncing the renders like a factory. I have a lot of fun playing around with photorealistic renders and walkable scenery in the Unreal Engine, eventhough the GPU get quite hot then (around 70°C).

The absolutely best part is the start-up which takes about 20 seconds to from power-on to desktop.

I did a PassMark Test and here's the score:

Total: 4123,5 (86th percentile)
CPU: 10170 (89th)
2D Graphics: 993,2 (94th)
3D Graphics: 1382,5 (54th)
Memory: 2420 (84th)
Drive: 4747,6 (95th)

The performance is generally striking (coming from an old i3-530 based PC) but I'm also quite amazed by the temperatures:

Idle:

CPU 28.5°C
SSD 23°C
GPU ~55°C

Full Load after 10 mins, tested with IntelBurn (High)

CPU max: 69°C
CPU avrg: 53°C

all tests performed at room temperature of 20°C

I'm currently looking at two more ways to improve the build: GPU and a smarter cooling management /fan control tool under load. If anyone here knows good guides for the latter, fire right out

In terms of GPU I was thinking about getting an AMD RX 480 instead of the GTX1060, especially because it is really cheap right now and a lot of HBM GPUs will be sprouting in 2017, making literally any 'future proof' purchase quite obsolete. any thoughts on that?

Aeacus · Jan 5, 2017

It's good to hear that you're happy with your new PC.

As far as cooling goes and provided you kept your Elite 332 case, you can have 1x 120mm front intake, 1x 120mm rear exhaust and one fan on the side panel too. It's hard to tell what size since there's no info about mounting side fan on Cooler Master's website.

By judging from this small pic, the side fan mount is either 80mm or 120mm.

You can go with RX 480 if you like. It does perform about the same as GTX 1060 6GB.
Comparison too: http://gpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/AMD-RX-480-vs-Nvidia-GTX-1060-6GB/3634vs3639

Advise appreciated: High-Mid-Lvl Workstation build in the making

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