How To Test A Mobo's Voltage Regulator Circuit?

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Here's the deal:

My main PC has been occasionally (but consistently) crashing or rebooting. Long story short, I strongly suspected the psu, even though it's a top model and fairly new. I checked the voltages with CPUID and Speedfan, and the 12v rail reads very low. ~ 8.9v on one app, and 9.5 on the other.

Well, lots of threads on the internet indicate that you can't really trust these apps to give accurate voltage measurements. I find that extremely hard to believe, (esp since brand new builds always read around 12v) but OK, so I tested my psu with a multimeter, under load:

12.25v, and steady as a rock.

SO HERE'S WHERE I'M AT:
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Not only do two DIFFERENT well-respected diagnostic apps show extremely low voltage, but those readings are also fluctuating slightly, as opposed to the direct psu reading that is steady.
I think perhaps all those threads saying not to trust CPUID are a bunch of nonsense, written by kiddies who are just guessing.

The psu itself may be outputiing 12.25v, and so my drives are OK, but the mobo has a voltage regulator circuit, which evidently take the 12v line and changes it to other, needed voltages. I don't yet understand exactly WHAT voltages and where they go, (I'd like to know) but the obvious point is:

If some of that 12v "passes through" the VRC, and remains 12v, BUT THE VRC IS FAULTY, then perhaps THAT'S the voltage being read by the CPUID and Speedfan.

- AND THUS THE PSU IS FINE, BUT THE MOBO HAS VOLTAGE PROBLEMS. ( ! )
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I have been searching for days, but can't find any "simple" answers to the following questions:

1: Where exactly does CPUID, Speedfan, etc read the various voltages from?

2: Has either company ever commented on the "low reading" thing?

## 3: Most important: Where exactly on a mobo can one take a 12v reading, with a multimeter, so as to compare it to the 12v coming directly off the psu?
 
Solution
Different things cause voltage fluctuations. Ripple generally comes from the input power or even the regulator it self. Other Voltage fluctuations can come from sudden changes in load. Almost all computer supplies will loose some voltage as the load increases(it generally falls within a few percent). The devices are designed to be unaffected by a range of voltage and ripple. The ATX spec calls for I think it is 5% - 11.40 V to 12.60(I remember it being 10% for the 12 volt rail at on point) and 120mv or ripple.

I am not sure if this will help you or not,
https://e2e.ti.com/support/power_management/simple_switcher/w/simple_switcher_wiki/2243.understanding-measuring-and-reducing-output-voltage-ripple

I still do not put much faith into...
The motherboard has a chip that reads voltages, but the implementation is not the same on all boards. This is one reason why 3rd party software has issues with some boards.

It is unlikely that the VRMs have failed and they covert 12 volts(from the power supply. Some boards do have reading locations to check voltages, but if not you have to be careful when trying to take a reading. one slip can cause damage) to a much lower voltage. The VRMs are self monitoring and should adjust to keep a fairly stable voltage.

I would look into other things like memory/temperatures as well or even try another power supply just in case.

Multimeters are not fast enough to see voltage ripple, you would need something more expensive(like an oscilloscope).
 

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Thanks, Nuke.

I'm going to look at my manual, maybe I can find test points. I know the problem is NOT my memory, nor the drives, nor any other hardware typically at fault. It also doesn't appear to be a micro crack on the mobo, which is common with portable rigs. It's also not likely a software issue, since this rig was rock solid for almost a year before the trouble began, and it was not after making any changes.

The day the problem started, my rig got caught in a rainstorm, (quite a lot of water inside the rack case when I opened it) and I had to run it anyway. (business.) To my amazement, the pc booted, but crashed after about 1/2 hr.

Naturally, I suspect either the psu or the mobo. I'm swapping-in a Seasonic Prime 750 today, just in case, but the old Corsair HD seems to be OK, unless it's outputting very short interrupts, which you alluded to. Unfortunately, I don't have a scope with which to check this. (I sure wish there was software that could do so.)
 

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UPDATE:

I still haven't figured how to test directly off my mobo, as I just haven't had the time & want to be very careful. (re Nukemaster's warnings, above.

However, I can verify that my problem was not the psu (I kinda' knew that anyway) as my new Seasonic Prime 750 is giving almost identical readings as the old Corsair, in both Speed Fan and CPUID. - Below 9v in the latter.

I am also still getting occasional-but-constant reboots, and agin with all other hardware testing OK, and all drivers removed & then replaced. (but no NEW drivers.)


It sure feels like a problem with the mobo.
 

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FWIW, there's a pretty in-depth article here, on mobo voltage regulation:

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-motherboard-voltage-regulator-circuit/

Sadly, it's a bit too techno-geeky for me, but maybe someone here can gain something from it.

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One pertinent quote, though:

"A good voltage regulator won’t have any fluctuations or noise on its outputs, providing the CPU and other components with a clean and stable voltage, allowing them to work perfectly. A bad voltage regulator can lead to fluctuations or noise on the voltage that will lead to malfunctions like the computer crashing, resetting and presenting the infamous Blue Screen of Death on Windows."

As I've said, the voltages coming off both my old & my new psu are rock-stable, at least on my (expensive) VOM. And yet, the software readings fluctuate continuously. So most likely, the mobo is causing that fluctuation, since it's not the psu and is very unlikely the software itself.

Which brings me right back to my original question.
 
Ripple and noise happen at a rate so fast that you will simply not see it with any multimeter.

I am 99% sure the 9 volt reading in software is wrong. The board takes 12, 5 or 3.3 to regulate(and anything more than maybe 10% out will cause all kinds of issues[most things spec for +/- 5% at most].). It gets these from the power supply.

The part about fluctuations and noise refers to the regulator itself. All regulators have a noise rejection(remove most noise from the power supply rails) and when properly filtered will have a very clean output(they also have to deal with very fast load changes). If the filtering portion was to be defective it could cause more noise/fluctuations or other problems, but on a newer system this should not be an issue(these things should work for years without issues).

Power regulation is a very complex thing, but is short you want as clean of power as you need(not all things require perfect power so you use what is required for the application.).

It is the lower voltage that would show these fluctuations(vcore and similar) and cause issues.

When to these crashes happen? Do you get any blue screen or logs in the even viewer?
 

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"If the filtering portion was to be defective it could cause more noise/fluctuations or other problems, but on a newer system this should not be an issue (these things should work for years without issues). "

Sure. - Unless something goes bad on the mobo, bringing us right back to my original question.

Also: You keep mentioning ripple, but I keep mentioning visible fluctuations on Speedfan & CPUID. I'm not so sure these are the same thing. The question remains, are those fluctuation expected to be seen n the software, or are they in fact indicating EXTREME ripple on the mobo, and thus a problem?
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"When to these crashes happen? Do you get any blue screen or logs in the even viewer?"

First, Thanks for sticking with this thread !

My answer: Yes, various crashes, maybe 2X a day if I leave things running. Blue screens, reboots, sometimes just apps crashing.

The event viewer indicated possible bad ram or psu, and the ram checks out 100%. Now I also know it's not the psu. I will post my event viewer data later, when I have time to check my notes. If you have ANY ideas, I would be seriously in your debt, as this is an income-threatening problem.

THX.
 
Different things cause voltage fluctuations. Ripple generally comes from the input power or even the regulator it self. Other Voltage fluctuations can come from sudden changes in load. Almost all computer supplies will loose some voltage as the load increases(it generally falls within a few percent). The devices are designed to be unaffected by a range of voltage and ripple. The ATX spec calls for I think it is 5% - 11.40 V to 12.60(I remember it being 10% for the 12 volt rail at on point) and 120mv or ripple.

I am not sure if this will help you or not,
https://e2e.ti.com/support/power_management/simple_switcher/w/simple_switcher_wiki/2243.understanding-measuring-and-reducing-output-voltage-ripple

I still do not put much faith into software voltage readings because of things like this.
mb4l6p.jpg

Simply put if you have voltage drops fast enough for software or a multimeter to read your system would be MUCH more unstable(fans would even be heard changing speeds). Nothing on the board should change these higher voltages. It simple takes them to make the lower voltages.

I am going to recommend something to try. Try to run Linux for a while(not installed or anything). If you have a blank flash drive this will be much better than a DVD.
The reason for this is to try to rule out a software issue.
https://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop/try-ubuntu-before-you-install

If you have not looked over your blue screen logs and easy way to do it is with BlueScreenView
 
Solution