How to mount both Liquid Cooled GPU and CPU?

Drill holes or get a new case. Or use the air cooler for your CPU, or GPU.

Part 1 - Cooler Choices:

The solution is not to use CLCs for cooling... a) No CLC water cooler cools better than a comparably priced air cooler and makes and b) makes more noise not doing as well. CLCs also suffer from:

a) Mixing aluminum rads and copper water blocks leads to galvanic corrosion,
b) The additives that inhibit this, can no be replenished after their useful life expires.
c) Aluminum rads have poor heat transfer capability
d) To make up for this and get as close as they can to air coolers in thermal performance, they need to use extreme rpm fans which create a lot of noise.
e) As you have observed, the hoses a are set length and can cause installation difficulties being too long or too short
f) When used on GPUs, they don't do squat for VRM, memory cooling ... sometimes worse than the stock air coolers.
g) You can't add any more blocks or radiators.

All-in-Ome "OLCs" (Open Loop Coolers) ... like the Swiftech H series and EK predator line have none of these disadvantages.... you can simply pop the tube off, add a block, extra rad, whatever, add more coolant and you are good to go.


Part 2 - System Design:

When planning a build, you need to both select compatible products and try and make the system as balanced as possible.

a) Don't buy a CPU that is not compatible with MoBo ... of an overclockable CPU and put it in a MoBo that doesn't support OCing.
b) Don't buy RAM w/ tall toothy heat sinks which have no cooling potential and can interfere with cooler placement.
c) Don't buy a MoBo which doesn't have two x8 or better capable slots and an extra slot or 2 between PCIE slots
d) Don't spend a ton on one item and then go cheap on another as the latter may impact the performance of the 1st.
e) Select the umber of case fans or radiator capacity for your build

Here... if you need space for two 120mm fan mounts, you need to elect a case with at eats 2 of them ... and two of them that are not contiguous with one another.

For water cooling, here's a rule of thumb using the generally accepted target goal of Delta T = 10C. This is using a 45mm thick radiator 30mm will be somewhat less

For 120mm fans at 1250 rpm => 1 per each 85 watts of heat being generated
For 120mm fans at 1800 rpm => 1 per each 140 watts of heat being generated
For 120mm fans at 2200 rpm => 1 per each 170 watts of heat being generated

So for a combined system with 90 watt CPU and 200 watt GFX card, that CPU will be at 130 watts OC's and GFX card will be between 220 and 240 watts depending on how high end you went. Let's call it 350.

A well designed inaudible system (1250 rpm) would need 4 x 120mm of radiator
A well designed tolerable system (1800 rpm) would need 2 or 3 x 120mm of radiator
A well designed vacuum cleaner noise like system (2200 rpm) would need 2 x 120mm of radiator

So based upon your tolerance to fan noise, you'd need to buy a case that supported that for a Delta T= 10C system. Of course, you can let the coolant get hotter ... but that affects how much cooling you get.

CLCs are typically in the 1800 - 2700 rpm range ... but in any case ... (no pun intended), the case needs to be able to accommodate what you want to put in it. At 1800 rpm, delta T would be 12.5C ... which is still pretty darn good

If you were building new, I'd choose:

Swiftech H240 X2 Cooler ($150) - With 2 x 140mm (280mm) rads, it can handle 165 watts per 120mm at 1500 rpm. With 2 x 165 = 330 watts, delta T would be about 10.9
MSI Seahawk EK X GFX card - w/ built in EK full cover water block
Enthoo Pro case ($89) - fits 420mm rad

You will also need about 24" of tubing, some extra coolant and 2 fittings for the GFX card water block.

Your 120mm CLCs will also work in that with varying mount options ... 2 on top, 1 rear / one top or one front

Geofelt:

I'm gonna add some qualifiers to the "rant" since, while I agree 100% with almost everything as applicable to CLCs, water cooling also encompasses custom loops and OLCs . So while most of these do apply to CLcs, they do not apply to the entire realm of water cooling and ny concern is that those reading this thread might assume it applies to all water cooling. My comments in italics

You buy a liquid cooler to be able to extract an extra multiplier or two out of your OC. How much do you really need?

That answer varies by individual. If we "go down this road" so to speak, equally valid questions might be "do you need to use anything but the stock cooler ? ... or "why do you need to OC at all ?"

a) More Power !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9HWGyp2p3U

As hobbyists, many PC enthusiasts, like automotive enthusiasts, enjoy spending their time trying to eke out every bit of performance they can. Why eat steak instead of Hamburgers ? Does owning a sports car get you to work faster during rush hour traffic ? Do you really need a 4WD SUV when there's snow on the ground only X days per year ?

Why select pretty much anything over a less expensive alternative ? ... because it meets your individual goals and / or you get enjoyment and or satisfaction out of it. You "get something" out of water cooling (excluding CLCs) , of course at additional cost. If there's something one gets outta CLCs other then "telling your friends you use water cooling", then no one has told me what it is yet .... other than:

- I don't like air coolers cause they are ugly ....valid answer if that's your take but is it enough to offset all the defciences .. to my eyes, no where near it.
- I don't want a 2 pound thing hanging off my MoBo ... but you just applied 60 pounds of clamping force to set your TIM properly and the 2 ponds is a concern cause ?

b) Sound reduction or complete elimination of any sound is a goal of primary importance to many

c) Aesthetics
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVPehMaHgM8


I do not much like all in one liquid coolers when a good air cooler like a Noctua or phanteks can do the job just as well. -

Agreed 100% for CLCs ... but not all All-in-Ones are CLCs, neither are custom loops and both do the job substantialy better.

A liquid cooler will be expensive, noisy, less reliable, and will not cool any better

In a well ventilated case. -

a) Cost is a factor but it is with every component choice, more performance almost always requires more money. There's a ROI on the investment and worth can only be assessed as it pertains to what each individual gets out of it
b) OLCs are no where near as loud as CLCs because they have copper rads and don't need the extreme rpm fans to compensate for aluminum's poor heat transfer coefficient
c) And of course, OLCs cool a lot better than air coolers which, in turn, cool much better and much more quietly than CLCs.

Liquid cooling is really air cooling, it just puts the heat exchange in a different place.

That doesn't make them the same. If two things are really "the same" in all respects, than the reverse would also be true. Air cooling is a part of water cooling... but bot always. So while most water cooling include metal => air transfer as the final transfer, that doesn't tell the whole story because the area above the CPU is limited. So you are not just **moving the cooling to a different space** ... in a properly designed system, you are moving the cooling to a different and much larger space** ... more surface area = more cooling / better cooling performance / les sneed for higher rpm fans.

But even that still doesn't tell the whole story ...

Air Cooling .... CPU => Copper Block => Heat Pipe => Aluminum fins => Air
Water Cooling ... CPU => Copper Block => Copper fins => Air

Those heat transfers in bold have lower heat transfer coefficients; those lower efficiency steps are eliminated w/ water cooling

The orientation of the radiator will cause a problem. If you orient it to take in cool air from the outside, you will cool the cpu better, but the hot air then circulates inside the case heating up the graphics card and motherboard.

And air cooler do what different exactly ? Isn't it also circulating air around the case ? Why doesn't this "problem" show up in test measurements ? The air cooler, in fact, is at a disadvantage here but it's meaningless because the GFX card, MoBo , etc. are unaffected in any way whatsoever by any additional heat that **might** be present. In testing (6 thermal probes and infrared thermometer) I've not seen this increase

Now lets look at a typical system w/ 2 intake fans in front and 2 exhaust in rear in a 2 cuft case. With more air blowing in than out, you will have positive case pressure and the excess air will blow out thru the rear case grille and slot vents.

-When we add an Air Cooler, air flow in and out of the case remains exactly the same and, as you said for the rad intake scenario, unless you build a shroud around the heat sink and space between heat sink and case exhaust location, "hot air then circulates inside the case heating up the graphics card and motherboard" (the 1-2C will not affect performance of these components in any way).
-When we add an 240mm OLC Cooler, air flow into the case substantially increases since now we have 5 fans moving air in and out of the case instead of 3. That's a lot more fresh air coming in and out of the case which has a significant additional cooling effect.

Also note that if this was a concern, the radiators can be mounted externally outside the case ... not done much anymore as a) temps don't change significantly and b) like when rad fans exhaust, noise is generated outside the case as opposed to inside where it is muffled to a significant extent.

Let's use an example... say the 60 cfm fans, deliver an effective 40 cfm on average after inlet filter restrictions and such, that's 200 cfm with the 5 fans. 200 cfm / 2 cuft = 100 times per minute that the entire contents of the case are "turned over" ... that means that the entire volume of the case is being exhausted every 0.6 seconds. It's just not possible for air temperature to substantially increase when fresh intake air is in contact with interior components for just 0.6 seconds. A well designed custom loop system will see a temp increase in tenths of a degree, I think you'd have to almost try to make it top 2 or 3C.

If you orient it to exhaust(which I think is better) , then your cpu cooling will be less effective because it uses pre heated case air.

Better for what ? The performance of what component improves by doing this ? Let's look at our above example .... We had 2 fans blowing in and 1 fan blowing out of the case ... now we add two fans blowing out for a total of 3 fans blowing out and 2 fans blowing in . This results in negative case pressure and now... instead of hot air going out thru the rear grille, you have hot PSU and GFX card exhaust being sucked in and bringing a fair amount of dust with it. Think about that ...

Option A - heat from your 90 watt (130 watts OC'd) CPU is being blown into the case along but you have 2 extra fans blowing fresh cool ambient air coming in (for every cfm in, there is a cfm of hot air exiting the case).

Option B - The heat from your 250 watt GFX card exhaust and 750 watt PSU exhaust is being sucked right back into the case.

Whether in or out gets the lowest case temps is an answer that depends on case design, number and orientation of case fans and whether you are sucking hot exhaust air and dust (layer of dust will also increased temps of interior components) back into the case. But with proper component selection, our testing has shown (6 thermal sensors, infrared thermometer and fog machine) interior case temps drop because the larger number of fans moving air in and out of the case increases air turnover. Every cubic centimeter of hot air generated is outside the case in 0.6 seconds.

Looking at it in more everyday terms. Ya sitting in a room with ya PC going full blast during a marathon gaming session; it's sunny out and the sun beating on the roof shingles with no breeze outside has your room 10F hotter than it is outside. You put a fan near your PC (an air cooler) to blow the hot air from the PC around the room. In this example... the room is "the case" and the PC is the CPU" and the fan is the air cooler. What will be the resultant drop in temperature of the room (case) because you turned on the fan to blow the air around the room ? Answer to rhetorical question is none. only bringing some cool fresh air in and pushing hot air out is going to change anything.

Now... open two windows and put a fan in one to blow that cooler outside air in to the room.... 10F cooler air is now coming into the room and a corresponding amount of the hotter air inside the room (containing the heat from your PC) is being forced out the other window ... now the room (and everything in it) is cooler because you have fresh cooler air being forced in. Now double the amount of air being forced in as we do when adding two rad fans blowing in fresh cool air from outside ... doesn't that make the room even cooler ?

And... I have read too many tales of woe when a liquid cooler leaks. Google "H100 leak"

Any liquid system can leak ... CLCs can even explode.

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/281843-29-corsair-exploded

The Swiftech AIOs had a leak issue where over tightening of the bleed screw could crack the acrylic reservoir and later design removed it and you just bleed as with any custom loop. Yes, there have also been tales of woe when overclocking but if you want the performance, you take the necessary precautions. The same holds true of water cooling. If you want the performance, the silence, the aesthetics ... or "whatever tickles ya fancy", there's going to be a downside, and you have to take the necessary precautions.

a) use quality components
b) avoid mixed metals like in CLCs which will eventually corrode the metal components
c) know what you are doing
d) test before usage

I have seen tales of woe, but it's a very small % of all users. For the great majority, they are discovered immediately post build. When testing properly, using a separate power source for the pump while testing, the risk can be reduced to almost an infinitesmal occurrence

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/9106/bus-192/AC_to_DC_Adapter_-_110V_AC_to_12V_DC_Converter_w_Standard_4_Pin_5000mA_Max.html

Here's a decent guide ... I use the same approach as here with the separate pump PSU, towels and fill / drain methods:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djqEM74rA_g

Another issue is what you see in above video ... using that front rad as shown there would have the hot exhaust air blowing in ya face ? Same for bottom rad which is also used n many builds... hot air pushed down would come out from all directions at desktop level.

Sorry for the long post but a) shortening up might leave some concepts less clear and b) it was something to do during halftime of the Ohio State - Michigan game

@JackNaylorPE:
It seems we are pretty much on the same page.
I would not argue with some of your clarifications and caveats.

I had given some thought to putting some of your added comments into my stock "rant".
I keep that text around to copy into posts since it is applicable to many .

In the interest of keeping it short, I probably will not change anything.
But; if you feel that there are some important additions/deletions to the rant, I would welcome your suggestions.

I'm not as smart as you ... Every time I type my own I fail to copy / save it or bookmark it