Apparently i5 cpus do LIMIT / bottleneck the RX 470/ RX 480 big time! gtx 1060 most likely

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gogoase

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Nov 29, 2016
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Hi, after reading all over the place the i5 combination with RX470/480, i finally bought the RX 470 on my i5 4460 system. I'm getting frame drops and high cpu usage that i never had on a very low end gpu(HD7770) combination. It's happening in all cpu intensive games now. I can't believe people recommend i5s with sli or high end cards. Now i regret spending money on this card and not buying a cheaper gtx 1050. The recommendation is all over the forum, just search it.

My question is, what do you think, in 2 years when games get more gpu demanding, will my configuration balance? I only bought this cpu last year and i'm not looking to upgrade anything for at least 5 years. In mafia 3 i even limited the gpu core to 600mhz(half) and got a more stable gameplay, can you believe that? In AC Unity i'm getting more fps in 1080p than on my native 768p resolution. This cpu just spikes over 90%. In Arkham Knight i'm also getting frame drops while driving. In all games the gpu load constantly fluctuates and drops to 0% in gpu-z. This happens even when i rise resolution and max graphic settings to overcome cpu bottleneck. The only time it's not fluctuating is when it's limited to 600mhz and when i rise resolution to 4k in metro last light redux, so there is no technical problem just so you know. The i5 simply cannot take it. I benchmarked everything, all is fine apparently after comparing results online.

Any future perspective in this configuration? I have 8gb ram and 600w Seasonic btw, no other bottlenecks. All my testing goes in all win7/8/10 with no difference even if i set max power to +50%. I even used Clock Blocker with no effect on the frame drops even if it works on minimum framerates when i find the right settings to keep the cpu load above 90%. That app is designed to keep the clock maxed anyway, which isn't a problem on my card.

Also, everything works just fine in some old games which use single/double threaded cpu, because of the turbo boost and all going in those games and not on quads.
I'm very sad. Had 100fps in GTA V on my HD7770 in medium settings, now i'm even afraid to install that game.
 
Solution
synphul
It's possible that you weren't seeing any cpu issues previously because of the lower powered gpu. Something will always be the limiting factor, to exaggerate for illustration purposes an i7 6700k cpu with an r7 260, the cpu won't seem to be working very hard because the gpu is maxed out. By contrast a core2duo cpu with a gtx 1080 will show very little gpu usage and the cpu will be maxed out, made even worse at lower resolutions. Higher resolutions can often mask weaker cpu's since the gpu is put under heavier stress.

You said with the hd 7770 you didn't notice the cpu struggling, it probably wasn't. The gpu was likely maxed and since it couldn't push pixels any faster the system was waiting on the gpu allowing for lower cpu...
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aquielisunari

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Mar 31, 2011
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Any visual aides for us? Any in game screen shots showing the CPU and GPU loads and the FPS? MSI afterburner can offer the OSD with all the needed info https://postimg.cc/image/3li74o6b7/ . A video would be even better.

The 4460 with a 470 isn't a high end setup. You aren't trying for ULTRA settings are you? Trying for 4K Ultra settings with AAA high end titles like BF1, Mafia, GTA V with a 2 or 4GB old 470 WILL result in some VERY heavy loads. Spiking to 90 or even 100% is expected. You don't have that much VRAM. You are also dealing with mid-range parts. Then you come here and complain it is being challenged by the likes of 2016's Mafia 3.

Then you cut the GPU power in half and suggested that improved things. Maybe you should just sell that setup and buy a modern i7 6700K with a Z170 board, 1070 and 16GB of RAM. That i5 is obviously junk. Heck. You could just give it to me. I'm perfectly happy with my 4690K and 970 FTW.


That was really the kicker. When you increase the resolution to 4K and cut your GFX card's power by 50% THAT fixed things. Okay.
 
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Barty1884

Barty1884

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Apr 16, 2015
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I'd be curious whether you removed your old HD7770 drivers before installing the RX470 or if you just expected it to 'work'.

How do your temps look? CPU/GPU? Something isn't right there, but it's not down to lack of CPU performance, that's for sure.

Most i5's won't bottleneck (almost) any consumer GPU available - at either 1080p or 1440p, in all but the rarest of situations.

The 4460 is still a pretty good CPU and should not be bottlenecking greater cards than an RX470.
 
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bootcher

bootcher

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Feb 22, 2013
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Obviously a new GPU doesn't suddenly cause your CPU perform less. The i5 is a very powerful CPU, wouldn't cause a bottleneck with any single CPU, especially not on low 1080p resolution. Double check all your BIOS settings, if the GPU is properly seated, if the CPU isn't being throttled due to overheating, if you have power settings set to maximum power and not savings, etc. The HD 7770 also is not a very low end GPU, it is still a very decent GPU, and the RX 470 is not that much faster, only about 10-20% I would say.
Also, I wouldn't recommend using clock blocker or similar programs, as they don't help much, and can actually make your pc perform worse.

In 2 years games will not get more GPU/CPU demanding compared to the current situation. Some games will always be very CPU-demanding, others will be more GPU-demanding.
 
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G

gogoase

Commendable
Nov 29, 2016
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wow
obviously i removed drivers, i even used Display Driver Uninstaller
cpu goes to max 83C. never throttles, mostly stays in late 70s i've been monitoring everything for 2-3 days

gpu stays in late 60s because i've adjusted the fan curve
 
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G

gogoase

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Nov 29, 2016
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- i used my settings in bios that worked just fine before, then i even reset it to default and test
- i tested with Performance power settings in windows. that just keeps all the cores maxed in freq anyway
- HD 7770 is about 3 times a more weak 2012 gpu that struggles to play current games in 720p
 
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G

gogoase

Commendable
Nov 29, 2016
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if you even read ,my post to know i'm playing 768p.. that's my display. and i said medium settings
cpu works just fine

how is this a driver problem in 3 different operating systems and different driver versions tested and even fresh installed os?

cpu is just garbage in this combination
 
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Barty1884

Barty1884

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Apr 16, 2015
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Wow what? I'm trying to understand your situation - as it's totally unique.

Are you seeing 83'C while gaming, or while stress-testing?
If only gaming, that seems excessive and may be part of the issue.



Can you be persuaded otherwise? Or have you made up your mind?
Consider you are the only person I'm aware of reporting this issue, it's likely a little early to make this conclusion, wouldn't you agree?

Countless people report no issues with a correctly configured system with the same (or simialr) setup, and you want to write an i5-4460 off as garbage? :lol:
 
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A

aquielisunari

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Mar 31, 2011
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That's abnormal. A CPU that stays at or around 70C is not being cooled correctly.

The same applies to your GPU. I adjusted the fan curve for my 970. It hovers between 32 and 34C. Apparently you made the curve less aggressive reducing noise and increasing temperature.

You don't specify whether that temperature is in game or idle. As for in game my screenshot in this post speaks to that.

cpu goes to max 83C is simply wrong. I don't mean to imply it's incorrect. Only that that temperature is not to be expected during anything but extreme stress testing and even then my CPU never saw 80.

Intel Burn Test was running on maximum. I was playing Spec Ops: The Line(full screen until I needed to take a screenshot of everything I had running), had three browsers and multiple tabs open and a movie was playing on mute. https://postimg.org/image/x60y7hmcz/

And you are only gaming. SOMETHING is not set up correctly. Of that I am certain.
 
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D

dangus

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Oct 8, 2015
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83 on a stock cooler isn't unheard of for i5. 70C at load for an i5 is really pretty good. a 970 running at 30-35C at load is unheard of regardless of the cooler. these assumptions aren't really helping
 
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G

gogoase

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Nov 29, 2016
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install mafia 3, it's maked out in absolutely all resolutions used
stress testing in prime or that game with 4 cores used at 95% makes no difference. playing the game at low or at ultra makes no difference



stuttering with 0.5 or 1 second completely screen freeze from 60fps
 
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G

gogoase

Commendable
Nov 29, 2016
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lol i'm not discussing idle here

 
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A

aquielisunari

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32-34C is at idle. I use MSI Afterburner to see my temps. I am not assuming.

Do you see 83 as a safe temp at load? Well, yeah Intel thinks it is. I am not used to that.

My current temps are below. 48C with a 67% load on my CPU. If I saw 83 I'd be worried. Others are not> Opinions...

Operating System
Windows 10 Home 64-bit
CPU
Intel Core i5 4690K @ 3.50GHz 32 °C
Haswell 22nm Technology
RAM
8.00GB Dual-Channel DDR3 @ 933MHz (10-11-10-30)
Motherboard
MSI Z97 PC Mate(MS-7850) (SOCKET 0) 34 °C
Graphics
Zoran (1980x1020@60Hz)
4095MB NVIDIA GeForce GTX 970 (EVGA) 32 °C
Storage
931GB Western Digital WDC WD1003FZEX-00MK2A0 (SATA) 37 °C
465GB Western Digital WDC WD5000AACS-00D0B0 (SATA) 41 °C
111GB ADATA SP550 (SSD) 35 °C
298GB Western Digital WDC WD3200BEVT-60A23T0 (SATA) 31 °C
Optical Drives
HL-DT-ST DVDRRW GSA-H30L
Audio
High Definition Audio Device
 
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G

gogoase

Commendable
Nov 29, 2016
22
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1,510
you want idle temps, here are idle temps
2WSEsF9.png

xdE2Zxb.png
 
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A

aquielisunari

Judicious
Mar 31, 2011
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Nor was I. 79C with everything that was going on and you were only gaming. But as you can see above individual results will vary.
 
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G

gogoase

Commendable
Nov 29, 2016
22
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1,510



if you even bothered to read what i'm writing here
i said gaming temperature is in late 70's max
that's normal behavior

83 is max temperature in 100% bottleneck mode
 
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G

gogoase

Commendable
Nov 29, 2016
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1,510
ok when i'm limiting the gpu to 600mhz core, the cpu load drops at max 75% while driving = THAT'S the exact definition of bottleneck
and this is hapening when that game is using all cpu resources
when it's at 75% load, there are no more stutters, but the fps lowers in crowded areas where the drops used to happen
 
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Barty1884

Barty1884

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Apr 16, 2015
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Your temps are definitely a little warm, but not in throttling territory.

Which OS are you running now?

Random question, but did you install your motherboard/chipset drivers from the manufacturer's website? Or did you let W10 handle that?

The fact that changing resolution & settings shows no change to your CPU usage if definitely abnormal (obviously those changes should impact the GPU more, but will still impact the CPU) - I'm just at a loss as far as the cause.
 
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G

gogoase

Commendable
Nov 29, 2016
22
0
1,510


i'm not some noob here, i said i tested 3 windows versions 7/8,1/10
obviously never used default drivers in my life
they all are on latest version anyway

the usage depends on the game. it's pointless when dealing with 4 core games
maybe it's rising a little bit in metro last light when at 4k
 
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G

gogoase

Commendable
Nov 29, 2016
22
0
1,510
i hope no one here misunderstands my writing "tone" as aggressive or anything
i hope you understand how frustrated i am after having no job atm and saving out of nothing to buy a gpu that could of potentially future proofed my system for another 6 years at 768p
this is a massive disappointment because 4 core games are just starting to emerge
 
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G

gogoase

Commendable
Nov 29, 2016
22
0
1,510
ok i googled and found some steam forum posts from 2 different people regarding mafia 3 and the same cpu + a gtx 970 dealing with the same problem
so now i'm 100% sure it's not my configuration

but still, i'm getting the Arkham Knight occasional stuttering / and gpu load fluctuations in ALL games which again means bottleneck
this is a dissaster
 
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D

dangus

Admirable
Oct 8, 2015
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6,160
i wouldn't be stressing out about what utilization the CPU and GPU are at in games. why are you so stuck on what % the GPU and CPU are at while in game?

you didn't exactly say that you were getting low frame rates. you said you were getting freezing. and what specific games is this happening with?
 
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Barty1884

Barty1884

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Apr 16, 2015
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I never called you a noob, just trying to clarify. You'd be surprised how many people think "Oh, Windows will just install my drivers automatically for me, how nice!".

I appreciate you've tested 7/8.1/10 - but like I've said, something is wrong here, and it's specific to your individual components. It's not related to a 4460 + RX 470 pairing, as you're definitely not the first to use that setup, but you are having major problem - It might be your specific 4460 (which would be random), or some other aspect we haven't found yet.

Drivers are common issues, as are temps - naturally, we want to make sure those are checked off first.

I'm very curious whether your resolution has anything to do with it - obviously a 470 is capable of much more. It would make sense if you were gaming at high/ultra, you'd expect your CPU usage to be up there (with your GPUonly lightly sweating), but on low/medium with certain titles, coupled with 720p, I'm at a loss.

Trying to think of other aspects here: Have you checked the health of your RAM/HDD/SSD? While I'm at a loss to rationalize why that would cause high CPU usage, those are other potential causes of the spikes - I agree, the 100% CPU usage is the likely cause, but ruling eveyrhing else out won't hurt.
 
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