Pump keeps failing in custom water cooling loop

flamboush

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Dec 2, 2016
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Hi guys, asking here is a last resort for me because I can usually find what I need just by browsing, but now I'm completely lost. Approximately a year ago I bought components for a custom water cooling loop which, after much research, I assembled myself. I paid attention to the water level in the reservoir while filling the loop (bay reservoir) to avoid the pump (an Alphacool solo VPP655) running dry. After a couple of months, at one point the pump started making strange clinking noises. When I took the loop apart, I realized that the noises were caused by the impeller constantly making contact with the metal housing where the impeller fits. After having the pump sent back to the retailer, I learned that the cause of the failure was the plastic part, where the impeller sits on the ceramic bearing, getting damaged and thus lowering the impeller. According to the retailer, this was allegedly caused by the pump running dry which baffled me even then. Like I said, I was very careful when filling the loop and I also checked the water level in the reservoir at the time of the failure, which hadn't decreased at all. I also checked the radiator, the CPU block, everything where water should be flowing, but I found no blockages (the only thing I found is a little bit of black oxidation of copper inside the CPU block, but I assume it's very unlikely that it was the reason for the failure). The retailer offered me a new impeller for a relatively fair price, so I went with it and reinstalled the whole lot.

Fast forward a couple more months to the present. A few days ago I started hearing the same clinking noise, and I immediately knew I was in trouble yet again. I'm almost entirely sure that it's the same problem again, and I find it extremely unlikely that the pump indeed ran dry - like I said, water level hasn't decreased, the pump is directly bolted on the back of the bay reservoir and there were no leaks. Even if the pump did run dry (for example when I was filling it), why would it take 3-4 months for it to fail?

The only thing I can think of is that the water in the loop got too hot and slowly eroded the plastic, although I would assume hot water is something you anticipate while designing a water cooling pump. I'm running a fairly aggressive OC, 3570K@4,6GHz and roughly 1,35V. The CPU is delidded, new thermal paste everywhere, although it was still running fairly hot (close to 100 degrees Celsius under stress testing - I know, that's not a good number in a custom water cooling, but I guess I was unlucky with the silicon lottery).

Any ideas are greatly appreciated, although I'm primarily interested in the likely cause of the failure because I'm probably moving back to good old fashioned air cooling, this takes too much maintenance and money.

 

Vellinious

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Dec 3, 2013
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Can you post a couple pics of your loop routing? D5s rarely fail, unless they're run dry....could be air trapped in the system somewhere, migrating to the pump during operation....the pics would help to determine if this is a possibility. Also, knowing what radiator(s) you're using, kind of tubing, etc.

Those temps are really high for an i5 @ 4.6 and those voltages, even with an AVX load. Especially considering that it's delidded.
 

flamboush

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Dec 2, 2016
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Sure thing, here you go.

Rad: Alphacool NexXxoS UT60 Full Copper 360mm Radiator
CPU block: Alphacool NexXxos XP3
Tubing I can't remember off the top of my head, but I know that it's smaller than usual.

It's extremely unlikely that it ran dry, I rocked the case for a good 10 minutes after filling the loop while also varying the pump speed. If it ran dry, I have no idea how... frankly, it seems impossible given the facts. I'll take the loop apart in a few days and inspect everything closely, but I don't expect to find anything, just like last time.

As for the temps, I know, I probably didn't get a good fit with the block like the first time (before the first pump failure it was stable 60 degrees under load). I'm not sure if it matters, but the pump was set slightly below the 2nd speed (increasing it seemed to have made no difference in temps, it only made it louder).
 

rubix_1011

Contributing Writer
Moderator
It wouldn't be heat that caused failure of those components - most pumps are designed to operate at temperatures higher than a watercooling loop would normally allow - like excess of 50-60C water temps or higher. (remember, water temps are not the same as core reported temps)

What is the pump that you have been using? That's the most important part left in the equation here.

 

flamboush

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Dec 2, 2016
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This is my reservoir. As you can see, the pump is directly bolted onto the back of it, so it's virtually impossible for it to run dry as long as the reservoir is in an upright position and there is sufficient water in it - hence my frustration about the retailer claiming it running dry. I know that it's the first thing to think of in cases like this 99% of the time since you guys also assumed it, but given the evidence I don't think it's possible.
BTW, that's a solid pump.
So you can understand my frustration :)
 

Vellinious

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Dec 3, 2013
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From the pictures, it looks pretty unlikely that the pump would run dry. It guess it's possible to have just gotten a bad pump, but.....it's really rare. The D5s are usually VERY durable.

As rubix said, the pump isn't going to fail because of coolant temps, which...are going to be considerably lower than your core temps anyway, but.....those temps on an i5 with those settings, reaching up to 100c seem high.
 

flamboush

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Dec 2, 2016
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It has. I took a picture of it that you can see here. It's kind of faint, but you can see the water level is above the 75% mark. When I was filling it, I never let it go below 75%, let alone the middle (even if I did, it wouldn't explain why it failed months later).
 

somethingbrite

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Mar 20, 2014
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Sorry to necro this thread, but not sure if OP ever figured this out.

What is the ID of your hose?
I am wondering if a restriction in the outlet Vs the inlet (inlet is direct from Res and therefore full width) might cause the impeller in the pump to "bounce" in the coolant. Making contact from time to time with the ceramic center of the pump.

(Just an idea)

The company I work for liquid cools video projectors and uses a DDC variant in many of our smaller designs. It's not the exact same pump but the principle is the same and i have never seen one fail as you describe in almost 10 years.

I have personally seen poorly maintained units with the pump cavitating like crazy and some that have run dry, but never once have these issues resulted in damage to the pump which would stop it working.

At home i use D5's and they work a charm. However i also use a glycol based coolant (like in our projectors) and this may have an added bonus of acting a bit like a lubricant even if the pump were almost dry.
 

Vellinious

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Dec 3, 2013
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Glycol (alcohol), if you have any blocks with acetal / acrylic, will cause problems. It'll weaken it, and cause it to crack at stress points. Heads up.

 

flamboush

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Dec 2, 2016
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Not sure what you mean by hose ID.

Any restrictions around the pump would be a result of poor product design on Alphacool's part, which I doubt it is since many other people use the same res without problems (I assume). I bought another pump (Aquacomputer D5) since then, so far it's been running with no problems.
 
@flamboush - those pumps based on liang D5 are practically indestructible. You need to run it dry for months. Even if there is a little air bubble trapped in the pump, you will hear it, but they usually are flushed after few minutes at most. Those pumps where originally used in science labs - so computer is nothing special for them. the only restriction for those pumps beside running dry is not to mount them with impeller facing down - kinda hard with the bay reservoir. Before the liquid reaches temperature that can damage the pump, your CPU would be literally on fire.
If the pump has second impeller ruined, I would suspect that there is something wrong with the bearing (that small ceramic ball under impeller) and would simply demand a complete pump replacement.
You can also contact alphacool directly with this issue. Your pump is still covered by warranty.

The only thing that I can imagine is that some acid in the non standard coolant could cause the plastic to erode. but that should cause problems to other parts in loop as well.