Which is better, using wireless router/switch combo or dedicated switch

MarvelK

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I tried searching on google and been getting conflicting information. So, before I start my question here is what I have:

Gaming PC (wired)
Smart TV for streaming (wired)
2 laptop, low and occasional internet usage (wireless)
2 tablets for kids to watch youtube occasionally (wireless)

Currently, I have a Arris surfboard modem (no router) that is connected to a wireless router's Internet port and same router has connections to my wired devices and serving wireless devices.

Now, I am wondering is this a good setup or do I need a new dedicated router. Something like connect my new router to modem and from new router's switch ports connect wired devices and also wireless router. I want to get performance boost on my PC and TV only (wired devices). I don't really need any fancy options or control, all I need is better performance for my wired devices. I read that wireless/switch combo share same backplane that is shared between wireless clients and wired.

I noticed that when I connect my PC directly to modem, I get 100 Mbps, but when I connect via wifi router's switch port, I can around 64 Mbps even when other devices are idle. Wireless router that I currently have is WRT160N. It was pretty cheap so it is possible it can not handle that much as it is the only other network device other than modem.

Can someone advice what is best thing to do here. Get a dedicated router with around 4-8 switch ports or get a better wireless router/switch?

Thanks
 
Solution
I think you mean ether-channel or port-channel (LACP/PAGP).

I thing building a router is a bit too much for what I am looking for :) I dont have much space on desk and dont like having a PC/laptop always on.

I think I am going with your first suggestion and get a good wifi router with 4 port switch. Since I have a 100 Mbps from ISP, there wont be any other bottleneck other than ISP pipe.

mihcael

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How old is the hardware? Newer hardware is nearly always better in most cases they come with new technology, i updated my home network and i see a performance boost.

Id say for your setup and a good solution would be to go out and buy a decent Modem/Router it will do everything you need and will cut down on hardware you need

Im a fan of TP-Link so here is a couple i think will do the job

Expensive - https://www.pccasegear.com/products/27254/tp-link-archer-d7-ac1750-wireless-dual-band-adsl2-modem-router

Cheap - https://www.pccasegear.com/products/33294/tp-link-archer-d20-ac750-wireless-dual-band-adsl2-modem-router
 

Nafryti

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Sounds like any mid range router should do the trick for your demand, but continue on if you wish to have some bragging rights...



This is a typical above scrub status gateway setup, you have "the wall > modem > router > devices" only those who don't have a clue use those combined solutions. Congratulations on that much right there sir!



This, as i mentioned before, is your typical setup, you can improve upon it here and there, but for the most part, this is the configuration every home should use for modular reliability. You can improve upon it with adding another router to the mix as you almost describe, but you need to remember, routers are DHCP servers, meaning your devices receive their assigned ip's from them, much like a soldier receives his orders from his commander... however, things get confused and fail when you have too many commanders, ever heard of the phrase "too many chiefs, not enough indians" before? Basically having two routers connected will cause issues as they begin to cross assign ip's... though different subnets can fix that, but not very well...



According to C-NET that router is 7 years old... which means its roughly entering the age of senile... either shoot it and buy a new one, or re purpose it (more later) the potential issue you're getting with that is not enough radio's, causing the queue to backup as it try's to maintain a qos for all devices. True having a qos is good, but it is also a double edge sword, higher end routers are able to delegate easily, were as the lower end routers struggle to keep up (will come back to this)




Yes and no...
You can still use that old router as an AP if you want, but it can serve as extra ports too... i'll come back to this later, but what we need to establish are some details here... A router commonly is just a DHCP/DNS server with an AP and a Switch function built in. They are commonly made as 5 RJ45 ports, 4 LAN 1 WAN, to alleviate the troubles of assigning ports, tasks, and functions. Simply put, a router is for those without Network and Communications degrees. Though there are many levels of routers, there are some brands that are better than others in their respective field.

Linksys i would honestly say isn't very user friendly, i would put them up at the top of the list though for security and features among regular consumer routers.
Netgear is far superior in the user friendliness, and though many will claim differently, the routers aren't very tech savvy...
D-link... well they used to be great, now you can't find them anywhere it seems...
and just don't even bother with Belkin routers...

On a much more advanced level, ASUS routers i would easily place above Linksys, for both security and so user unfriendly you'd swear it were trying to attack you through the setup screen.

The higher the number does not mean the faster the router:
The numbers are just a "Theoretical potential under load" meaning if you have X amount of devices calling for internet simultaneously, a single radio wireless router will only be able to deliver 150Mb/s (hypothetical max rate) to a single device at a time, which would then be labeled a N150 router... but an N300 router means it can do 150Mb/s to two devices, and so on... the use of different frequencies 2.4ghz and 5ghz changes the throughput a bit too, which is where you get odd looking numbers like AC2534 if you try to divide that by the 300 radio antenna's you see thinking it is one radio per antenna (some times this is true) you'd get some whacky number like 3.7mbps and that's like... what? but you must consider the two different bands. 2.4Ghz has a longer range (strangely) than 5Ghz, but 5Ghz has a lower susceptibility than 2.4Ghz, so the trade off is dependent upon what you have going on in the house. Some people will swear up and down that wireless is the devil and you should only use things you can hold in your hand... (lol strictly materialistic, and believes in deities lol) but then there are those who can see the potential and benefit to the wireless world.

Though most devices these days are not all 5Ghz, the most common in cell phones and tablets is 2.4, with 5 being a recent addition. Laptops are just now getting AC capabilities built in, but mostly still seeing N on the 2.4 band.

NUTSHELL:
A newer router that isn't about to suffer from a broken hip would be best to invest in... i would recommend a Netgear if you're not comfortable tinkering with the settings to get the most out of your setup, but if you're feeling bold and want something more than the Linksys, go for the ASUS.
You can convert your old router into an AP by disabling the DHCP and DNS functions on it, assign it an IP address like 192.168.0.2 BUT keep it outside the subnet range of your DHCP host (new router) and then connect it using the LAN ports only with a regular patch cable, don't worry about anything, it will work fine, from new router to old router. and you can either use it as a wireless only access point, and leave the hardwire to the new router, or, use it as a switch and disable the wifi on it all together.
You should also consider the potential drop in speed could be due to both outdated hardware, but could also be due to interference, or even someone who's connected to your internet. ALWAYS secure your wifi.

I hope i didn't lose you...
Yes i know wall of verbal assault squad, but it's a lot to consider, and a big subject...

However, just replacing the router too would be just fine, but where's the fun in that? and what fancy new things would you learn that you'd otherwise never know of that way?

UPDATE:
i forgot to come back to QOS, well it means Quality of Service, and it can be used to prioritize traffic over other traffic, like say, you are playing counterstrike and you need the highest priority to get that dankmeme360noscopeepichangtime shot.... if the router were being bombarded by Netflix on 3 other devices, you'd lose connection to the match surely... but if you turn on the QOS to prioritize game traffic... (hypothetically) it would prioritize the gaming traffic over the media streaming traffic so that your game woud be faster, but the sad part is, source games don't use the common gaming ports like EA does, so almost none of the QOS engines help in prioritizing traffic for CS:GO, unless you can make your own custom rules... which i'm just gonna figure is above you...

Well... Good luck on your adventure!
 

MarvelK

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Thanks for the great explanation and information.

I do not care about wireless devices performance so I guess best solution would be to get a new Modem that is a Modem + router, and then connect a switch (I already have a new 8 port netgear switch) to it and from that switch connect all wired devices including wireless router. Wireless router has DD-WRT firmware so all I need to do there is change it to an AP disabling routing features.

So, it comes down to below 2 solutions:

> Get new modem/router combo >> 8 port unmanaged switch (already have it) >> connect all devices + existing wireless router as AP.

> Keep same modem >> get a new wireless router with switch and connect all devices. Same topology just new wireless router.

Please suggest best option and also best modem/router (if option 1) or wireless router (if option 2). I guess third option would be to get a router only and connect between modem and un-managed switch. Not sure if it is a good idea as I will have so many network devices on desk.

My modem is a Arris SurfboardSB6141 and wireless router is WRT160N (7 yrs old)
I also just bought a 8 port unmanaged switch (Netgear Prosafe GS108). I bought it hoping I could just connect it to the modem and it will work but turns out my modem does not have routing features like NAT. So I can only connect 1 device to the switch :(

Appreciate your help.
 

Nafryti

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I too had that modem, until it just outright refused to chill out on the errors.
I went from the failing modem, to whatever one it is that Charter had for me and my interwebs had gone to Plaid again.
Just be wary of the errors listed in the 192.168.100.1 information page of the modem, once it starts kicking back errors, its pretty much game over and time for a new one.

In terms of a new Router, depending on your confidence in this field that can vary, but depending on your demand, id say a medium high grade router would do the trick.

Elite: ASUS RT-N66R with the open source DD-WRT software, there are higher power solutions, but this offers the most in features and performance.

Advanced: Linksys EA6350 Though not so user friendly, Linksys usually offers higher security performance on both wired and wireless home networking.

Friendly: NETGEAR R6100 Honestly, with the performance offered, and the user friendliness, i highly recommend Netgear routers to individuals who are intimidated by they toasters.

These are just examples, except the ASUS one, if you were to get one i'd highly recommend one with the DD-WRT feature... much more power from that OS.
Generally speaking though, between the three, ASUS/Linksys/Netgear, the price ranges are pretty much a great way to determine the performance level, usually between $80 - $100 is Medium High grade, where as anything over 100 usually just jumps to $199 in stores such as Walmart/Bestbuy, are the screamin eagles of routers, and have a lot higher capability.

You can still use that switch you have, just connect it to one of the LAN ports on the router, or search for a tutorial on how to convert a Router into an AP/Switch, so you can use your old router as a Range extender for your wifi, run a line to other side of the house and connect it there converted, spread the signal evenly across and have better performance.
 

MarvelK

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I like Asus but it does not have AC which I might need in future. I think I will go with netgear instead. I am pretty familiar with network protocols (doing my CCNP) but not really familiar with hardware and their backplane. My main concern was if wireless client and wired devices share same backplane then it is better to get separate switch where I can cable my PC, TV and wifi router instead of connecting them to wifi router.

I guess it should not be a problem in a home network as ISP will always be the bottleneck. I don't do any sharing and stuff within the home network. Everything goes to gateway.

On the other hand what u think about this guys:
Cisco SG300-10 (SRW2008-K9-NA) 10-port Gigabit Managed Switch
Can I connect this guy to my modem and my PC, TV and wifi? It has static routing but I did not see if it does NAT.

Thanks for all the information and recommendation.
 

Nafryti

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That lies the problem... regardless they will all tunnel through the primary router for DHCP, Routing, and DNS... but you can just build yourself a router out of an old PC and it would be quite powerful. and then you could use the Switch to connect all the devices, and the old router converted into an AP for the wireless.

802.11ac isn't much different than .11n It will remain backward compatible and offer a higher level of throughput... just getting an AC router and upgrading the adapters all around doesn't mean you're going to get 1.9Gbps over wifi... no.




So far i have not had any issues with Rosewill products, i have 3 Gigabit NIC's by Rosewill, two are Marvell chipsets the one PCI is realteck, so their reliability is much higher than other cheap brands in my opinion. As far as expensive "managed" switches, i have no experience, and from what it sounds like from Linus on youtube, they can be frustrating and somewhat unreliable, where as unmanaged switches tend to just work.

I've been salivating for THIS gigabit switch for some time... i think soon though, i'll have it in my server frame! A few more NIC cards ....huh... completely forgot what its called when you link ports together to increase reliability and throughput, almost like RAID for NIC's lol... Not failover, right?

Anyways, that ASUS router i linked was more as an emphasis on the routers they make WITH DD-WRT as opposed to the ones they use their own OS for... There are AC routers by ASUS, they are even sold by Walmart, but they only carry the high end ones at around $199(ish)

consider building your own router, i'd give you tips on a PFsense build but i've only ever had problems with PFsense, only one i could get to work is Smoothwall Express 3.1 x64 on a few old handmedown parts from my first desktop... but you can use a laptop just as well, and it would still be an epic router! For the same price as one of them high dollar routers, you can build one far better, and since you already have a wireless router and a switch, there shouldn't be any issue building a cheap PC at around $200 that will be an epic Router.
 

MarvelK

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I think you mean ether-channel or port-channel (LACP/PAGP).

I thing building a router is a bit too much for what I am looking for :) I dont have much space on desk and dont like having a PC/laptop always on.

I think I am going with your first suggestion and get a good wifi router with 4 port switch. Since I have a 100 Mbps from ISP, there wont be any other bottleneck other than ISP pipe.
 
Solution