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Is it possible to use the internet without anyone knowing you're using it?
- Thread starter Thelps
- Start date
Rookie_MIB
Distinguished
- Jul 27, 2013
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Generally, in a nutshell, it is theoretically impossible for SOMEONE to not know who is doing what. When you send data requests for a webpage out, it has to have a return route which points to you.
The best way of course to hide what you're doing is have an intermediary receive the requests, then resend them. As the data comes back in, it knows where it's supposed to go and so it re-routes it to you. Now, if that intermediary has a strict no-log policy, it becomes impossible for anyone then to know what data is going where.
That is, in a nutshell, what a VPN does. Virtual Private Network. They have computers which act as 'routers' of sorts, which mask the true IP address of the person requesting the data. This allows you to surf anonymously, assuming of course that the VPN is committed to no-log policy. It's usually not free for a 'good' provider, but the cost is nominal for those interested in true internet anonymity.
The best way of course to hide what you're doing is have an intermediary receive the requests, then resend them. As the data comes back in, it knows where it's supposed to go and so it re-routes it to you. Now, if that intermediary has a strict no-log policy, it becomes impossible for anyone then to know what data is going where.
That is, in a nutshell, what a VPN does. Virtual Private Network. They have computers which act as 'routers' of sorts, which mask the true IP address of the person requesting the data. This allows you to surf anonymously, assuming of course that the VPN is committed to no-log policy. It's usually not free for a 'good' provider, but the cost is nominal for those interested in true internet anonymity.
- Mar 16, 2013
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The server at the other end needs to know an IP address to send it to.
Like the address on a letter. It's going somewhere....the sender needs to know where it should end up.
With a VPN, the sending server sends it to the VPN service. That then sends it on to you.
- Mar 16, 2013
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You = your PC. Your PC and/or router has a publically known IP address.
Me = a server/website
You send a request to me, to send you some info (packets).
I have to know where to send it to. Your IP address.
Ergo....that is how you are sort of identified by.
Just like with physical mail.
If you request that I send you something, you have to let me know your street address. I need something to put on the envelope.
- Mar 16, 2013
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The contents of the physical mail can absolutely be kept private, yes. Encryption, HTTPS, etc, etc.
The address on the outside of the envelope, not so much.
The "me and you" was simply a description of how it works.
If you, via your keyboard and PC (or phone) request some data from a remote server...how is that server supposed to know where to send it?
It needs an address. In the case of the internet, that is the IP address. The IP address that is assigned to you (or whoever pays for it) by the ISP. Cox, Verizon, college, your employer....someone.
No, it is not the human you. But it is a system under your control.
And that can, mostly, be traced back to the human you.
If I am not being clear on this, please let me know what is unclear to you, so that I may refine it.
- Feb 20, 2013
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What you have said so far has not told me anything I don't already know.
I don't want my usage of the internet traced back to me as I do not think it is warranted or cost effective.
My privacy online is useful as it allows me to work privately.
The more people who know me, the less work I can get done.
I don't want my usage of the internet traced back to me as I do not think it is warranted or cost effective.
My privacy online is useful as it allows me to work privately.
The more people who know me, the less work I can get done.
13thmonkey
Titan
- Jan 10, 2006
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and yet you are here, creating a bigger and more interesting footprint with every single post you type.
With regards to cost effectiveness, it would be worse if it had to be redeveloped, and frankly given that the internet is free at point of use it's none of your business, anything you pay is for access.
With regards to warranted, it is actually necessary. as noted above so that sites can send information to you, you may think 'but i don't want them to do that' but without the ability to send information to you there is no page for you to see. Remember the internet is not a passive window that you are looking through, every single character on every single page that you visit is sent specifically to you, you are not 'just happening' to see it, you have requested it, it has been created and sent to you and no one else. This is just technically the way that the internet works, in fact any network works, in fact any transfer of information works where you have many to many relationships between holders of information and providers of information.
If you really want to be private on-line, then get off line, that's the only solution.
If you are just referring to the content being visible, as opposed to merely the fact that you've been somewhere then encryption resolves that, it may not look like it is doing much, but it is, it's just very transparent to the end user as anyone has to be able to use it.
You mention above that 'the problems' still exist when you use VPN's without actually saying what the problems are other than vague handwaving, some detail might help.
With regards to cost effectiveness, it would be worse if it had to be redeveloped, and frankly given that the internet is free at point of use it's none of your business, anything you pay is for access.
With regards to warranted, it is actually necessary. as noted above so that sites can send information to you, you may think 'but i don't want them to do that' but without the ability to send information to you there is no page for you to see. Remember the internet is not a passive window that you are looking through, every single character on every single page that you visit is sent specifically to you, you are not 'just happening' to see it, you have requested it, it has been created and sent to you and no one else. This is just technically the way that the internet works, in fact any network works, in fact any transfer of information works where you have many to many relationships between holders of information and providers of information.
If you really want to be private on-line, then get off line, that's the only solution.
If you are just referring to the content being visible, as opposed to merely the fact that you've been somewhere then encryption resolves that, it may not look like it is doing much, but it is, it's just very transparent to the end user as anyone has to be able to use it.
You mention above that 'the problems' still exist when you use VPN's without actually saying what the problems are other than vague handwaving, some detail might help.
Rookie_MIB
Distinguished
- Jul 27, 2013
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Guys, if this guy can't understand that the information he requests has to have a way to get back to him, we're not going to be able to help him... *sigh*
looks you cannot HIDE on the internet, you can play a game of hide and seek with TCPIP to make it harder to find your information, but the fact remains at one point your first hop out of your ISp will have to know your IP address. that is why authorities can always do trace backs to point of origin, yes there are " dark nets and such " that bounce the information over 200-1000 servers to confused the flow of information, but in the end someone knows who you are.
13thmonkey
Titan
- Jan 10, 2006
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jsmithepa
Polypheme
- Jun 14, 2014
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First off, that question is too open ended. What about, OK, they know *someone* is using it, but hey can't trace your physical location, would that suffice? Depends who you are shielding from, your stringed wife, shouldn't be that hard, the F B Ai, a little harder.
well technically speaking if you have an account with an ISP and a governmental institution trace the TCPIP address to your ISP they will get a warrant and get your account information... so yes they can get your physical information that way
- Feb 20, 2013
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I know how an internet data packet is sent. I know about routing tables, DNS (Domain Name Servers), DHCP (Domain Host Configuration Protocol), Packet Headers, IPv4 (learning about v6), TCP, UDP, etc. etc.
I have taken a general certification for Information Technology and am studying (and considering taking) a networking certification also.
So far all I've got is elementary-level advice plus some haughty trolling on this thread.
For anyone here who has checked my profile on this website I've been offering assistance on this site for years, most of which has been well-received.
I guess I expected a little more respect and a higher level of return assistance.
What is your guys' problem anyway?
My issue stems from the fact that less than a week ago I had files deleted from my PC. I attribute this to an individual or group of individuals tracking my online activity and therefore 'spying' on me.
I know people track online activity anyway but I don't tolerate someone tracking my every move and forming judgements or opinions on me and using that as a rationale to take control of my own property (my computer).
I consider that invasion of privacy, and almost a form of home invasion.
My response is to acquire the closest level to absolute internet-anonymity possible in order to protect myself, my right to privacy and my work, which I do on my computer.
Does that sound reasonable to all of you?
@ThePaladin - I certainly haven't done anything that a government agency could use to justify a warrant. They'd be abusing their powers and their warrant in that context (not to mention wasting their time and taxpayers' money). I don't even torrent media. I deliberately pay for everything to support programmers and artists. I'm a proponent of the IT industry in general.
I have taken a general certification for Information Technology and am studying (and considering taking) a networking certification also.
So far all I've got is elementary-level advice plus some haughty trolling on this thread.
For anyone here who has checked my profile on this website I've been offering assistance on this site for years, most of which has been well-received.
I guess I expected a little more respect and a higher level of return assistance.
What is your guys' problem anyway?
My issue stems from the fact that less than a week ago I had files deleted from my PC. I attribute this to an individual or group of individuals tracking my online activity and therefore 'spying' on me.
I know people track online activity anyway but I don't tolerate someone tracking my every move and forming judgements or opinions on me and using that as a rationale to take control of my own property (my computer).
I consider that invasion of privacy, and almost a form of home invasion.
My response is to acquire the closest level to absolute internet-anonymity possible in order to protect myself, my right to privacy and my work, which I do on my computer.
Does that sound reasonable to all of you?
@ThePaladin - I certainly haven't done anything that a government agency could use to justify a warrant. They'd be abusing their powers and their warrant in that context (not to mention wasting their time and taxpayers' money). I don't even torrent media. I deliberately pay for everything to support programmers and artists. I'm a proponent of the IT industry in general.
13thmonkey
Titan
- Jan 10, 2006
- 24,798
- 350
- 75,790
occams razor suggests that the deletion was something else, it is far far more likely than someone having the degree of control to delete files without notice.
- Feb 20, 2013
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@USAFRet
-Files used to check the integrity and security of my PC's contents.
-I know the files were deleted because they're no longer in the folder where I saved them. Spent a few hours running searches for them, also.
-No errors are reported by the computer so recovery applications (as employing Occam's razor as suggested by 13th Monkey) is low on the priorities checklist. Hardware fault is extremely unlikely, it's a new HDD and hasn't errored yet.
-I ask myself the same question every day. This anomalous activity has been going on for years. I don't hold any state secrets, I don't commit crime online. I'm not conspiring against anyone and I don't publish controversial material.
Massive 'WTF?!' near-daily to do with my computer and the internet.
My previous post is not a far cry from the original question. It's why I asked the original question in the first place. I wanted to justify my question and give context.
-Files used to check the integrity and security of my PC's contents.
-I know the files were deleted because they're no longer in the folder where I saved them. Spent a few hours running searches for them, also.
-No errors are reported by the computer so recovery applications (as employing Occam's razor as suggested by 13th Monkey) is low on the priorities checklist. Hardware fault is extremely unlikely, it's a new HDD and hasn't errored yet.
-I ask myself the same question every day. This anomalous activity has been going on for years. I don't hold any state secrets, I don't commit crime online. I'm not conspiring against anyone and I don't publish controversial material.
Massive 'WTF?!' near-daily to do with my computer and the internet.
My previous post is not a far cry from the original question. It's why I asked the original question in the first place. I wanted to justify my question and give context.
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