PC Not Booting After Long Off Time

MJSAMS · Dec 10, 2016

I am having problems getting my PC to boot/POST after it has been off for an extended period of time (8-12hrs). The fans spin and power comes on, but no signal. I seem to need to disconnect power and hold power button (to drain capacitors?) to get it to boot. Sometimes it will just work on the 2nd or 3rd try, other times i need to do this "power button trick." My understanding is this should not be required and means there is an underlying issue with the system. I build this only a few weeks ago so all of the components are new to me. No use.

I have gone through "the list" for troubleshooting boot/POST issues with no success. I have also read through many forums with similar problems but none of the posted solutions fixed my issue. I have swapped PSU, Reset BIOS, Re-seated all components, set memory frequency(as well as auto setting), Reinstalled OS. Leaving power disconnected from the system after shutting down does not seem to help either. I still need to do the "Power Button Trick" prior to turning on after a long time. Thank you in advance for any help anyone can provide!

System Specs:
Geil 2x8gb RAM
ASRock Fatal1ty Z170 K4 Motherboard
Gigabyte GTX 1070 GPU
Intel i7 6700k
Seasonic G550 PSU
Windows 10

MeanMachine41 · Dec 10, 2016

This may seem simplistic MJSAMS but have you tried changing the CMOS battery.?
A dead or failing battery would cause what you describe. I know your system is new however who knows the shelf-life of your MB when you bought it.
You have tried just about everything else but no mention of that and its worth a try at $4 for a CR 2032.

If you can't pass post the system will not advance, Do you have any beep code speaker ability on your MB or a Qcode readout.? Are there any Error LEDs lighting up on the MB?

MJSAMS · Dec 10, 2016

MeanMachine41 :

Thank you very much for the reply. I have tried removing the CMOS battery to reset but have not actually replaced it. I will give this a shot. I do not have a boot beeper. When the boot fails, I have the red bios LED on in the mobo (suggesting it has not passed POST?). This light obviously goes out upon a successful boot. I am not familiar with Qcode? It may be worth noting that sometimes the system will just boot up on the second try without the mentioned "power button trick" but this is becoming less frequent.

MeanMachine41 · Dec 10, 2016

Your MB manual should indicate the function of the red led light.
Staying on indicates a problem. Could be DRAM_LED, CPU_LED or Boot_LED.?
I don't have your MB however some MBs have a Qcode led for troublshooting.
You have tried clearing CMOS however is your Bios up to date.? Sometimes a Bios update can fix Post issues and stability if the system is causing problems.

MJSAMS · Dec 11, 2016

MeanMachine41 :

Thanks again MeanMachine41. I am going to pick up a new battery today and find out if this solves the problem. I have looked into updating the bios but I am not sure how to do it. My motherboard website (http://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/Fatal1ty%20B150%20Gaming%20K4/index.us.asp?cat=Download&os=BIOS) has alot of options on the bios download page. I was not sure if i need to do all of them or just the most recent one. I have also heard bad stories from people who update bios and end up ruining their mobo. At this point I guess I could give it a try as well.

The red light just says BIOS_A1. From what i can tell this just indicates which of my bios i am running. I guess i can have a backup bios?

MeanMachine41 · Dec 11, 2016

If you decide to flash your Bios the best method to use is instant flash.
It is not a dangerous procedure however there are risks, DO NOT disturb the procedure or cut power to your system during flashback. It is usually operator incorrect procedure where the risk applies or you have a power failure.
Obtain the Bios file from your link version 7.2 and download to an empty FAT32 formatted USB drive.
Insert the USB into an appropriate port, start your system and you have 2 choices.
1. Depress the F2 function key during post which will take you to Bios and there you can use the instant flash utility tool.
2. Press the F6 function key when the ASRock splash screen appears. Select the Bios file for your MB.

Bios flashing is common practice nowdays to fix system instability and to address new RAM and USB devices.

MJSAMS · Dec 12, 2016

MeanMachine41 :

Thank you again for the detailed reply. I am looking into doing this but I do not see a version 7.2 on the list from the link? I tried to flash the most recent version but keep getting the message "no image file detected." I have downloaded and unzipped to an empty USB (FAT32) drive an inserted to USB2.0. Not sure what the issue is. The CMOS battery did not seem to fix the issue. I guess I should just have purchased a PC off of a shelf somewhere.

MJSAMS · Dec 12, 2016

MeanMachine41 :

I think I have it figured out. The link I posted was not to my actual motherboard so it was never going to work. I found the correct download and was able to install it. I only used the most recent version. Do you think I will need any of the previous versions or are they contained within the most recent? I am not sure if they are cumulative.

Hopefully this works. I will find out tomorrow and let you know. Thanks again for all of your help. I appreciate your time.

ac13044 · Dec 12, 2016

do a clear jumper and take battery out for 10mins plus

MJSAMS · Dec 13, 2016

ac13044 :

Will this undo the BIOS update I just did?

ac13044 · Dec 13, 2016

no it shouldn't it will load the factory default settings. maybe the bios you have installed did something to your pc it's a possibility. if it does reinstall the bio again

MeanMachine41 · Dec 13, 2016

MJSAMS :

MeanMachine41 :

I think I have it figured out. The link I posted was not to my actual motherboard so it was never going to work. I found the correct download and was able to install it. I only used the most recent version. Do you think I will need any of the previous versions or are they contained within the most recent? I am not sure if they are cumulative.

Hopefully this works. I will find out tomorrow and let you know. Thanks again for all of your help. I appreciate your time.

No you don't need any other version but the latest.

Are you able to pass POST and access Bios now.

Karadjgne · Dec 13, 2016

I had the same issue on an Asus board with an i5-3570k and Seasonic 520w. If I shut down the system and let it sit longer than @4 hrs, it took pulling the plug to get to boot. Turns out it was a glitch in the hibernation. From best guess, when I'd shutdown, it wasn't registering as a full shutdown, it was doing a hybrid shutdown, so the psu was maintaining low power levels but the pc was unresponsive. Hit the power button and post would start but stop directly after, like the psu couldn't get past the low power states. Soon as I got rid of Hyberfil.sys (for another reason lol) it all cured up. No post issues.

Having a pc, it's totally safe to dump hibernation, that's a part of Windows designed for laptop usage, not pc's, but being an all in one platform, it gets dumped in there too. This works on any Windows OS. http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/819-hibernate-enable-disable.html
Worst that can happen is you'll gain back 10% of C: drive space. Bonus. It may or may not fix your particular issue, but I feel it's healthy anyways.

MJSAMS · Dec 14, 2016

MeanMachine41 :

MJSAMS :

No you don't need any other version but the latest.

Are you able to pass POST and access Bios now.

Unfortunately I was not able to boot today after a long time being turned off (almost 24 hrs). Had to pull the power plug and hold power button after the second try. Then it worked. I'm out of ideas.

MJSAMS · Dec 14, 2016

Karadjgne :

I will have to look into this. Thank you for your input!

If this is the issue, is it something potentially harmful to my system? Or am I ok to keep using it as it is if I can tolerate the powering on and off?

MeanMachine41 · Dec 14, 2016

I don't know what settings you have for sleep or hibernate in Windows however you can check this.
Open Control Panel and select Power Options. Here you can change when the computer sleeps. I choose never put the computer to sleep or to hibernate. There are other options to create your own power plan.

MJSAMS · Dec 15, 2016

MeanMachine41 :

I checked it last night and I have both sleep and hibernate turned off via power plan settings.

Karadjgne · Dec 15, 2016

In sleep basically what happens is the pc starts turning things off that aren't being used. The monitor, storage hdds etc. But it stays in a state of suspended work. Hibernate is a little different. It actually stores your latest state to C: and to do so it portions C: permanently. So you permanently loose 10% of C: just for the use of Hyberfil.sys. Hibernate is a Laptop function. Has no use on a pc which isn't going to get bumped, bounced, dropped and possibly loose its working data.. Hibernate also activates the low power settings of C-states and this is where my issue was, my psu is a slightly older group regulated design and has issues with C6-C7 power output. Even though I had hibernate turned off in Windows, Hyberfil.sys was allowing those deep sleep modes and without literally pulling the cord from the psu, it wouldn't allow recovery. Your G550 is the same group regulated design, but a slightly better platform. Deleting Hyberfil.sys won't hurt your pc in the slightest. What will happen is you'll regain 10% of C:, which for me was 12Gb on my ssd. Like I said, it could help.

One other thing to check is in your bios, in mine there's a setting to basically disallow the deepest power states, mine is S1 or S3. It's also in Windows under power - Advanced tab, but I'm not trusting of Windows settings working too well when Windows isn't active, like at boot.

MJSAMS · Dec 15, 2016

Karadjgne :

In sleep basically what happens is the pc starts turning things off that aren't being used. The monitor, storage hdds etc. But it stays in a state of suspended work. Hibernate is a little different. It actually stores your latest state to C: and to do so it portions C: permanently. So you permanently loose 10% of C: just for the use of Hyberfil.sys. Hibernate is a Laptop function. Has no use on a pc which isn't going to get bumped, bounced, dropped and possibly loose its working data.. Hibernate also activates the low power settings of C-states and this is where my issue was, my psu is a slightly older group regulated design and has issues with C6-C7 power output. Even though I had hibernate turned off in Windows, Hyberfil.sys was allowing those deep sleep modes and without literally pulling the cord from the psu, it wouldn't allow recovery. Your G550 is the same group regulated design, but a slightly better platform. Deleting Hyberfil.sys won't hurt your pc in the slightest. What will happen is you'll regain 10% of C:, which for me was 12Gb on my ssd. Like I said, it could help.

One other thing to check is in your bios, in mine there's a setting to basically disallow the deepest power states, mine is S1 or S3. It's also in Windows under power - Advanced tab, but I'm not trusting of Windows settings working too well when Windows isn't active, like at boot.

Thank you Karadjgne. There is a setting in under ACPI configuration in my bios "Suspend to RAM" where it says I can "select disable for ACPI suspend type S1." Is this what I should try? I will remove the hyberfil.sys today as well.

MJSAMS · Dec 16, 2016

Well still no luck. Tried everything suggested and still had the problem booting up today. Any other ideas?

MeanMachine41 · Dec 16, 2016

As you can get into Windows, Lets do some stress testing on your Hardware.

For Stress Testing download HWMonitor and AIDA64 and put them side by side on your desktop.
Go into the Tools section of AIDA64 and select to run the stress test.
Tick the boxes for CPU, FPU and Cache. Run the test for 10mins and stop the test if temperatures reach 80C.
Later you can also run tests for other sub systems if you wish. Run a test on RAM separately.
Constantly monitor HWMonitor for system temperatures and do not leave unattended.

At the 10min mark, take print screen shots and upload pics to your favorite file host.
You can use IMIGUR as a host, upload the files then go to images. Here you can obtain the BBurl to link here for analysis.
If you can't get all info, page down or change menu screens and take more shots. Select those pics you wish to have analysed.

I would want to see all rail voltages during the test with 100% utilization on all cores.

It's the only other thing I can think of is to see if any Hardware is the issue. You have a very good PSU but you never know and it could be the PSU.?

If this does not reveal any problem then I'm fresh out of ideas.

MJSAMS · Dec 16, 2016

MeanMachine41 :

Here are the Imgur links. Hopefully it is what you are looking for. Let me know if i need to do something different.

MeanMachine41 · Dec 17, 2016

Thank you for posting your results MJSAMS.

I see nothing wrong with your temperatures and voltages although a little high on the voltage rails they are just within tolerance during the stress test. I think you have ruled out the problem once it is up and running.

Having to discharge your MB capacitors before the system will boot is the clue and I have only encountered this on a couple of occasions before. One was the PSU continually providing excess power to the MB capacitors on shut down requiring a discharge before booting.

On another occasion it was the MB that was the issue.
Upon inspection around the VRMs it was discovered that a capacitor was the fault and the MB was RMA. The new board fixed the issue.

And on another occasion they added a surge protector which was the fix.

You have a new PSU which rules that out 98% but not 100%. You would have to have the unit checked to be 100% sure. Or its the MB retaining excessive capacitance when powered off.

To recap: You have replaced the CMOS battery and updated your Bios. That rules them out.
Your RAM has been checked and seems OK under stress.
Your OS system is functioning fine and stable.
Your still having to do the power button trick.

Conclusion: Its the MB at 98% or the PSU at 2%.
So!!! Have a good inspection of the MB and I kid you not, also smell the MB.

Last question; Do you have a surge protector.?

MJSAMS · Dec 17, 2016

MeanMachine41 :

Yes i have it plugged into a surge protector. I have also tried a second brand new power supply so i dont think that is the problem.

I could be wrong about needing to drain the capacitors. It seems to work most of the time, but today it did not. I tried to power it on 2 times and then did the power drain trick. It still did not work and i needed to try it 2 more times before it actually came on.

Does this test rule out something being wrong with the connection on my CPU? If so i suppose the MB is the only thing left.

Karadjgne · Dec 17, 2016

In bios, find and disable Fast Boot. (mine has 2 switches, Fast Boot and MSI Fast Boot). If that seems to fix the issue, the the real culprit is Hyberfil.sys, of which fast boot is a client.

It's possible as MM states, that it could be a mobo issue, I'm just a big fan of trying everything possible that I can, before being reduced to time consuming rma's or replacements.

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