How to buy memory - does it depend on the CPU or motherboard?

fussygoat

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I want to increase my ram from 4GB to 8GB. I'm thinking of retaining the pair of 2 GB (KVR1333D3S8N9/2G + KVR1333D3N9/2G) I have and just add another pair. What I found available are KVR13N9S6/2, which is similar except for the x16 bus width (according to Kingston). The other 2 I have are x8s.

1) If I'm going to use all 4 DIMM slots, can I have x16 in slots 1&3 and x8 in slots 2&4 - dual channel?
2) Can I have DDR1600 in slots 1&3 and DDR 1333 in slots 2&4?
3) If I keep the 2GB sticks in slots 2&4 and add 4GB in slot 1, will I lose dual channel?

Core i3 2100
mobo: Biostar TZ68A+ http://www.biostar.com.tw/app/en/mb/introduction.php?S_ID=546
KVR1333D3N9/2G http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820134812
KVR1333D3S8N9/2G http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820139640
KVR13N9S6/2 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820239848

Thanks in advance.
 
Solution
Don't mix ram. It's a bad idea. Ram has certain timings, what you see as CAS or CL is only part of the primary set. There's over 30 timing sets in all. If these don't mesh perfectly, you'll get errors, everything from games dropping to desktop, bluescreens, inability to boot at all. Combining the bandwidths will also ply havok on the memory controller. What you'll end up having to do is lower the speeds and most likely up the dram voltage to handle all 4 dimms.

The best thing is if you want 8Gb, buy a kit of 2x4gb. This maintains dual channel.

1) Yes, you'll have 2 sets of dual channel ram if you keep it that way.
2) Yes and no. You can put mixed ram like that in the board, but to run, both sets will need to default to the slowest...

Karadjgne

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Don't mix ram. It's a bad idea. Ram has certain timings, what you see as CAS or CL is only part of the primary set. There's over 30 timing sets in all. If these don't mesh perfectly, you'll get errors, everything from games dropping to desktop, bluescreens, inability to boot at all. Combining the bandwidths will also ply havok on the memory controller. What you'll end up having to do is lower the speeds and most likely up the dram voltage to handle all 4 dimms.

The best thing is if you want 8Gb, buy a kit of 2x4gb. This maintains dual channel.

1) Yes, you'll have 2 sets of dual channel ram if you keep it that way.
2) Yes and no. You can put mixed ram like that in the board, but to run, both sets will need to default to the slowest speed which is 1333MHz.
3) Yes and no again. Pc's for quite a while now accept either dual, single or both, so you'll have single channel 4Gb dimm in #1 and dual channel 4Gb in slots #2 & #4.
4) Most likely a world of headaches. Stick to 2x4Gb and retire the 2x2Gb. You could try it to see if it works, you'd end up with 12Gb at 1333 in that case, but you'd get better performance from 8Gb @ 1600 or even 1866MHz
 
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fussygoat

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Your reply clarifies a lot of things for me and makes me realize I have a lot to learn. So, thank you and pardon me for I've got even more questions.

1) Please don't lose your patience with me here. As a follow up to my questions 2&3, I can add a 4GB 1600 Mhz onto slot 1, it will run at 1333 Mhz and I get a total of 8GB memory? Is it guaranteed to work like that or is it theoretical? Would that solve the occasional delayed response of the PC when I have 20 tabs opened simultaneously on Chrome? If so, I may consider that setup because it's cheaper to just add a 4GB stick.
2) When you said I'd get better performance from 8Gb @ 1600 or even 1866MHz, you meant I could use an 1866 but it will run at 1333, right? Is it safe to conclude that I can install higher frequency modules (even 2400Mhz) onto my board and they will work but will run at 1333 MHz or am I still limited to 2200 MHz, which is the max for my board?

Right now I'm weighing my options - buy pre owned 2GB modules similar to what I have, buy 2 4GB singles or get a 2x4GB kit. I'm checking out the ff from local shops:
price range ($55 - $64 converted)
G.Skill Ripjaws X 2x4gb 1866 8gb CL9 (F3 14900CL9D 8GBXL)
G.Skill Ares 2x4gb 1600 8gb CL9 (F3 1600C9D 8GAB)
G.Skill Ripjaws X 2x4gb 1600 8gb CL9 (F3 12800CL9D 8GBXL) (cheapest dual kit)
Team Elite 4GB 1600 and Apacer 4gb DDR3 1600Mhz (roughly $20/pc)

Cost is really a factor, plus the fact that I have an old system. 2x4GB kits sell for almost $64 here in my country. Would you be able to suggest something I could still use if and when I upgrade my CPU and mobo? I don't overclock, I play games occasionally, seldom use photo editors, watch movies, and don't do CAD.


Thanks!

 

Karadjgne

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I bought 16Gb (2x8Gb) Patriot 1866MHz ram on eBay for $20.

1) Ram is iffy. How it works isn't. Ram works at the slowest level unless you manually OC and that has hazards of its own. So generally, #1 4Gb 1600 + #2,4 2x2Gb 1333MHz is going to run as 8Gb of 1333MHz, if it runs at all. It might be possible to OC the 1333MHz to 1600MHz, then add the 4Gb stick, and have it stable, but there's no guarantees. And if it doesn't work, you wasted your money on ram that won't do the job alone as your largest amount is now 2x2Gb in dual channel.

2) If you break down and buy a single kit of 2x4Gb 1866MHz, you'll get much better performance from that 8Gb in dual channel than using the 4Gb/2x2Gb. First it'll be a matched set in dual channel mode, vrs 4Gb in dual channel mode with 4Gb in single channel, which is @20% loss in performance on the single channel alone. Not to mention you'll be pitting 1866MHz vrs 1333MHz.

3) Your motherboard only officially supports upto 2200MHz. Faster ram might work, but there's a strong chance it will be stifled and only work at 2200MHz. If you look at those ram speeds, they all say (OC) next to them. For some that means you stand a good chance of needing cpu OC to get the memory controller enough juice to get the ram stable at that speed. Some say it simply means it's an OC ram setting, since factory default is usually 1333MHz or 1600MHz, so obviously 1866MHz means the ram is OC'd by using XMP profiles.

Yes, 1866MHz is an XMP profile. 1600 is the usual default. This is not mentioning any possible changes in dram voltage that might be necessary.

Either way, I believe it's time to retire the 2Gb sticks. They may or may not work with the new ram, but in case they don't, you'll want any new ram to be sufficient for your needs.

Windows itself uses @2Gb of ram. Anything run through Windows is only going to have access to @1-3Gb of ram. Open 20 Chrome tabs and try doing something, and you are starting to stretch ram limits, which will cause pauses or hiccups as ram now has to sort out info with higher priorities and has little extra room to shuffle it all about.

I can sympathize with budget concerns, but your current ram isn't up to the task. Time to get ram that is.
 

fussygoat

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I've decided to get a 2x4GB kit. I've already gone looking for 1333s at local shops and they are hard to find. I'm trying to avoid purchasing online. So to clarify:
1) If I use either a 1600 or 1866 (or even the maximum supported frequency) on my board I may need to activate the XMP profiles in Bios settings to get them to run at 1600 or 1866 respectively? And this has nothing to do with my processor, right? I've read it can't be overclocked, and I don't know anything about overclocking.
2) If I don't enable XMP profiles, the memory will run at 1333, which is the maximum supported by my CPU?

Anyway, I'm okay with the new memory modules running at 1333. I just want to make sure I don't damage anything and that my system works properly.


Thank you very much!
 

fussygoat

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Yes, I'm using a 64 bit OS. I'm going with the 2x4GB kit to avoid incompatibilities.
 

Karadjgne

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What Windows are you using?

XMP profiles are 1 or more steps above default. On the Jedec tables you'll find all the available speeds and timings for the ram, this is easy to find using cpu-z. Most ram of 1600 or faster uses 1600 as default, so 1866 rated ram is really 1600 with xmp #1 profile of 1866. Rarely is 1333 default and 1600 xmp #1. 1333 is usually just that, 1333 with no xmp. But you can take 1600 and downclock to 1333. You'll see in the Jedec table the timings for the ram. It'll go from 9-9-9-27 to 7-7-7-24 or some such.

And yes. If you wish to activate xmp profiles, it will need to be done in bios, you'll see under the dram settings an option for setting xmp, if there is that option on the ram itself. Otherwise it'll automatically be set to default speeds.
 


OK that's good. I didn't want you to buy some new ram, only to find it would only be recognized as 4GB max.

 

fussygoat

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Thanks!
 

fussygoat

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I'm using Win 10. I haven't gotten the memory modules yet. Will come back to this thread when I do get them. And, sorry for the late response, I'm having problems with my internet connection.

Update: I was able to get a pre-owned Ballistix Tactical Tracer 2-4GB kit. It's working well and has LEDs. My old 2-2GB Kingstons also worked with the Ballistix so now I have 12GB of RAM. I know it's too much for my current setup but I stuck with it anyway. Again, thanks for all the assistance from you guys.