Decided to Build my own NAS solution , any advice/recommendation will be helpful .

peaceduke

Honorable
Dec 18, 2014
230
0
10,690
Hello !

I found that NAS on internet

"WD 16tb my cloud" NAS and it's good in price compared to others
but
1) I'm not sure it will work as gigabit(1000) speeds (100-125bm/s)
2) I don't fully trust WD (better than seagate, though)
3)unable to make RAID with them AFAIK

so, as I said decided to build my own 18TB NAS

based on :
ASRock Motherboard MINI-ITX ATX DDR4 LGA 1151 (H110M-ITX)
16gb non ecc memory /// I've read that ratio RAM vs capacity should be like 1GB RAM = 1TB HDD .

consider all what I said above, I have couple of unresolved questions:

1) can I build my owт 18tb NAS with (non ECC memory and install 16GB instead of 18)
if not ! what it will affect ? what kind of issues I might have ?

2) I saw Free NAS software (like DOS) installed on NAS , I don't need to use it as PC and have no GPU on it , can I just use that "NAS OS" and use it as a storage from other PCs ?
(with ability to admin and customize that storage as I want) I mean RAIDs and all that stuff

3)I think 6tb 3x drives is ok for me , so - which manufacturer you recommend as most reliable
and durable ones (reliability and lifespan is very important )

4)is that correct that gigabit ethernet can travel data from 100-125mb per second via LAN ?
asking that because I was copying some 50GB file from one pc to another
and I was copying that thing for 40min instead of 7 as math tells us

 
Solution
I'm a systems admin, and was the test lab systems admin at a company that makes backup storage products. I just wanted to set that up for credibility purposes, so you know I know what I'm talking about.

1. That memory guideline is just that, a guideline. It shouldn't hurt you to have a little off from 1GB/TB on a storage server. All my storage servers are far off from that ratio. It is more important to keep in mind the number of users per GB of memory. 4GB of memory could be fine for a storage server if you only have one thing being accessed at a time.

Getting into data deduplication, though, gets more complicated. If you want dedup on your data, then you do need 1.25GB+ per TB of data stored. I think that is the root of...

dgingeri

Distinguished
I'm a systems admin, and was the test lab systems admin at a company that makes backup storage products. I just wanted to set that up for credibility purposes, so you know I know what I'm talking about.

1. That memory guideline is just that, a guideline. It shouldn't hurt you to have a little off from 1GB/TB on a storage server. All my storage servers are far off from that ratio. It is more important to keep in mind the number of users per GB of memory. 4GB of memory could be fine for a storage server if you only have one thing being accessed at a time.

Getting into data deduplication, though, gets more complicated. If you want dedup on your data, then you do need 1.25GB+ per TB of data stored. I think that is the root of the recommendation for FreeNAS.

2. I've tried FreeNAS, and found that using CentOS is far easier to administrate. It takes some research to do it either way, but I was able to get CentOS to work in a little over an hour with an NFS share and about 3 hours with a CIFS share, and couldn't get FreeNAS to work with either in over 2 days of fiddling with it. The web interface for that just made no sense to me, and too many different things had to be set up to get it going. I made a user account for access, then made the share, and then set the rights, but it still wouldn't let me access the share at all. It was just a big PITA. CentOS was much easier.

3. I always recommend HGST's Ultrastar line. They're enterprise/server level drives, and the best of those level drives in both performance and reliability, but they do cost a good bit more. If you don't want to spend that much, WD's Red line is pretty reliable. Avoid Seagate or Toshiba. Don't even try to make a RAID from WD's blue or black lines. WD blue and black lines simply won't work with RAID. WD's Gold line is the enterprise level RAID drive, and pretty much just relabeled HGST Ultrastar drives. WD's old RE3 line is still very good, even if they're old drives. They're quite reliable.

Seagates will, but they aren't very reliable. Even Seagate's enterprise line is not reliable. In my last job, I had over 6000 Seagate drives, and had to replace about 10-12 per week. The first shipment of 6TB SAS drives we got had over a 30% failure rate over the first 3 months. I had to replace 6 drives of 24 in the first 2 weeks of the project, and another 3 drives in the two months after that. Once we went from prototype phase into testing phase, of the 348 drives (29 trays spread across 10 test systems), I had to replace 120 of them within the first 2 months of the project. They claimed it was a firmware problem that they fixed. After that, though, the remaining drives didn't fail at all for the next 18 months. I left that job at that point, so I don't know how well they've done over the last 9 months. Toshibas were about as bad, but we had a way smaller sample size at about 800 in the lab.

The HGST drives we had were absolutely great for reliability. I had trays of 500GB Hitachi drives dating back 12 years that were still going strong with no failures. The 4TB drives we got also had no failures while I was there. Of course, the sample size was smaller at about 2000 Hitachi drives, but I think I had a total of about 5 or 6 fail in the entire 6 years I worked there. I'm a HGST convert for life after that job. I currently have 6 4TB Ultrastar drives in a RAID 10 for my storage at home.

At my current job, we have WD Black drives in a Linux software RAID for my backup storage. Obviously not my first choice, but they work, so I can't really do anything about it.

4. Gigabit will cap at 112.5MB/s transfer rate with normal frame size. With jumbo frames, you can get up to 118MB/s, but jumbo frames can be tricky to set up. You can try bonded links, depending on your OS, but the most you'll get from a single stream is the same 112.5MB/s. It takes multiple streams to utilize bonded links, and most operating system functions don't use multiple streams. Most modern hard drives can saturate that easily. RAIDs will certainly do so.

With the new 2.5Gb/s and 5Gb/s network adapters coming out, you might have a chance to upgrade that later. I'm running 10Gb/s with a $400 switch I found, a Dlink DGS-1510-28X, and $100 NICs I got throug my last job, Qlogic QLE3242-SR. I got them at a discount directly from the manufacturer, as they were old models. I've seen those NICs listed on Ebay for about $100-120 with optics. They do need direct cooling, though. 10Gb isn't as expensive as it used to be. It's actually doable at home now.
 
Solution

peaceduke

Honorable
Dec 18, 2014
230
0
10,690



Amazing stuff there... I don't know what to say , thank you .
just couple of words

1)
regarding capacity vs ram
I wan't 16-18TB for saving video frames , so I think 4PCs will access storage at same time (I mean simultaneously)
what amount of ram would you put there in that case ? again 3pcs 16TB storage
I think I will go with 3x 6TB - I will take a look at WD reds definitely .

2 )
regarding LAN between 4pcs
I hope simple hub will work , right ? smth like that
1396268937_hub.jpg


3)
regarding that storage OS
I don't know what to choose , I have CentOS but it drives me crazy
will I have any performance loss if just install freeNAS DOS ?
I will have no GPU on that storage PC _ so maybe just boot and share those drives , I don't know

I wan't my decision to be simple and good - I can't do 100 things at same time
can you imagine learning all that stuff administration all that NAS tricks / I mean I have lot work beside that
what would you install on it ?

in other words 4pcs will render frames and save everything on that storage at same time


 

dgingeri

Distinguished
1. For 4 systems, 4-8GB would work just fine. You have 16, so that is more than enough. No problems there.

2. I'd advise something a little beefier than that one. Go for a good name brand switch, and not one of the little $20 models. They're cheap for a reason. saturating all the links on something like that would probably give you about half the performance you'd expect, and probably some latency issues. A good Netgear or Asus switch at about $35-40 would do better. The switch inside a router is about the same situation. Get a cheap router, and you get a cheap switch with it. Saving $20 on a switch that you have to replace after a year isn't really saving money over a $40 switch that will last a decade.

3. Use what you prefer and can use. Try out FreeNAS and see how well you can work with it. Maybe you'll do better than I did. It depends entirely on your skills. I was just saying I had a hard time with FreeNAS. You may have an entirely different experience.

Whatever works for you. Just keep that in mind.
 

peaceduke

Honorable
Dec 18, 2014
230
0
10,690


So, thats the one from your recommendation
Netgear-GS105-Gigabit-Switch-Front.png

thats a gigabit switch , it means it will correcpond to the motherboards ethernet device speed
but , as i said 4 pcs will save files in same time
does it mean that , those 115mb/sec will be divided by 4 ?
or 115mb/s for each port ?
 

dgingeri

Distinguished
Yeah, I've used that model at my job in the lab. It's a good switch. Durable metal casing, too. That would serve you well for a long time.

As for 4 PCs saving to the share at the same time, that would work just fine. They obviously won't all get 112.5MB/s doing it, as that would be the max bandwidth of the server. They would roughly get 112.5MB/s divided by four. Some will go faster as others have lags in the save process. So, you'll see better than just a simple 28.125MB/s on each, but it depends on circumstances. The file share service will handle the traffic shaping and caching.

If you get a bigger switch (8 ports, for example) and use extra network adapters on the FreeNAS server, it can handle link bonding/aggregation using "round robin" that would give you better performance per system, but it is kind of tricky to set up. It's an option for you.
 

adamantine

Commendable
Jan 13, 2017
21
1
1,520
I actually made a lengthy post on selecting NAS hardware recently (http://adamantine.me/index.php/2016/08/20/how-to-build-a-budget-nas-machine/) so that may help with drive selection. Gigabit speeds? Try to find a mobo with an Intel NIC - other adapters might not work well with Freenas/Nas4free and restrict you to 100 mbps. Speaking of which, have you considered NAS4Free? It's like Freenas except you don't need ECC memory, an Intel CPU, or whatever other restrictions they have. If you look where I linked there's some resources for setting up NAS4free that I hope you'll find helpful