All around computer- video, 3d modeling, $1500-2K budget

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Cody_CAD

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Jan 20, 2017
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Hello all,

After being out of the hardware side of tech for 15 years (my last high performace build was a H2O cooled AMD 1700+ DLT3C!!) i need help picking components for a new desktop. My A505 Satellite laptop just isnt cutting it anymore.

I do CAD work on the side from home (Solidworks mechanical CAD), 3D slicing, some light video editing and some light gaming. I will need all the components except for keyboard and mouse. I can always upgrade some components later if need be. I would like to run main programs off of a SSD and use some HDDs for long term storage. Quiet is better and clean / sleek go further for me than flashy.

Budget can be somewhat flexible, but lower is better, i will not go over 2k however.

I do prefer to max out the RAM ... i mean, they put 4 slots there for a reason so i might as well use them!

Thanks for all your help!!
 
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bambiboom
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frapport

frapport

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Dec 2, 2015
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Generally, before people try and spend your money wisely: 512GB SSD - maybe M.2 with the right motherboard if it has best support. Samsung. 32 GB of DDR4 RAM, yes, MB could support more for the future. 4 or 6 core processor - Intel. Highest GHz for sure. I like bigger cases Thermal Take V51 looks nice as a cost reduced V71 but Fractal's are popular too. nVidia GTX 1060 should be enough and budget minded. Air cooling is good, Noctua works well. Due to the power profiles and heat curves, a good case covers 90% of cooling needs without adding on, everything is power sipping compared to previous generations. An EVGA G2 750W PS was the premium value 5 months ago, again people will be happy to give a wide variety of advice and choices hopefully from Tom's tier one list.

http://partpicker.com is a gem of a resource Mix and match and adjust. This is a rough draft I haven't built a machine for awhile.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i7-6700K 4.0GHz Quad-Core Processor ($329.99 @ SuperBiiz)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($27.88 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: Asus Z170-A ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($147.98 @ Newegg)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR4-2400 Memory ($169.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung 950 PRO 512GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive ($349.99 @ Best Buy)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($86.88 @ OutletPC)
Video Card: Zotac GeForce GTX 1060 6GB 6GB Mini Video Card ($249.00 @ Jet)
Case: Fractal Design Define R4 w/Window (Black Pearl) ATX Mid Tower Case ($109.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA G2 650W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($88.89 @ OutletPC)
Total: $1560.59
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-01-24 00:25 EST-0500
 
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bambiboom

bambiboom

Splendid
Apr 7, 2012
2,462
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Cody_CAD

I'm a user of Solidworks user, along with Autodesk Building Suite, Sketchup, Wolfram, and Adobe CS6.

Given the budget and the demands of Solidworks- which needs both a strong single-threaded CPU performance, more or less requires a Quadro, and has one of the few really well-threaded rendering programs, my suggestion is to buy and upgrade a used workstation. This has several advantages: workstations are purpose deigned for high performance in these uses and are quiet, and as reliable, and have a strong support from the original maker. Very importantly, you don't have to build it, only plug in the upgraded CPU, RAM, GPU, and drives as you find them.

I did this with an HP z620, purchased to replace the analysis /simulation /rendering system, a Dell Precision T5500:

Dell Precision T5500 (2011) (Revised) > 2X Xeon X5680 (6-core @ 3.33 / 3.6GHz), 48GB DDR3 1333 ECC Reg. > Quadro K2200 (4GB ) > PERC H310 / Samsung 840 250GB + WD RE4 Enterprise 1TB > M-Audio 192 sound card > Logitech z313 > 875W PSU > Windows 7 Professional 64> HP 2711x (27", 1920 X 1080)
[ Passmark system rating = 3844 > CPU = 15047 / 2D= 662 / 3D= 3550 / Mem= 1785 / Disk= 2649] (12.30.15)

Purchased for $270:

HP z620 (Original) Xeon E5-1620 4-core @ 3.6 /3.8GHz) / 8GB (1X 8GB DDR3-1333) / AMD Firepro V5900 (2GB) / Seagate Barracuda 750GB + Samsung 500GB + WD 500GB
[ Passmark System Rating= 2408 / CPU= 8361 / 2D= 846 / 3D = 1613 / Mem =1584 / Disk = 574 ] 7.13.16

Purchased:

CPU's: $152 + $154 (used)
CPU riser: $150 (used)
RAM: $128 (used)
GPU: $260 +86 (used)
Drives: $150 + 82 + $65 (new)
Sound card: $36
Set of all case plastic parts: $56

TOTAL= about $1,600

I can recover a bit of the cost by selling the original E5-1620 (about $70) and the Firepro V5900 (about $70)

Result:

Analysis / Simulation / Rendering:

HP z620 (2012) (Rev 3) 2X Xeon E5-2690 (8-core @ 2.9 / 3.8GHz) / 64GB DDR3-1600 ECC reg) / Quadro K2200 (4GB) + Tesla M2090 (6GB) / HP Z Turbo Drive (256GB) + Samsung 850 Evo 250GB + Seagate Constellation ES.3 (1TB) / Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium PCIe sound card / 800W / Windows 7 Professional 64-bit > Logitech z313 2.1 speakers > HP 2711x (27" 1980 X 1080)
[ Passmark System Rating= 5675 / CPU= 22625 / 2D= 815 / 3D = 3580 / Mem = 2522 / Disk = 12640 ] 9.25.16
[ Cinebench R15: OpenGL= 119.23 fps / CPU = 2209 cb / Single core 130 cb / MP Ratio 16.84x] 10.31.16

> which currently has the highest system rating of 249 systems tested on Passmark.

An example:

HP Z620 Workstation 2x Xeon E5-2603 1.8GHz 8GB 250GB Win 7 Pro 1 Yr Wty > $435

Add to that system:

2X Xeon E5-2690 8C @ 2.9 / 3.8Ghz: about $175 each
64GB DDR3-1600 ECC registered: about $140
Quadro M4000: used about $650
Samsung 850 Evo 500GB: $175
Seagate ES.3 Constellation 2TB: $140
___________________

TOTAL= about $1,890

It's worth trying to find a z620 with a bootblock date of 6.13, the system can use Xeon E5-2600 v2 series CPU's and DDR2-1866 RAM and the E5 v2's are generally faster with better single-threaded rates. However, the E5-2690 has the highest single-thread rating of first series Xeon E5-2600's. The Xeon E5-2687w v2 (8C @ 3.4 /4.0GHz) is better, at 2052, although these are still selling for $800-$1,000 each). If you found a used system that could use E5-v2 though, it might be worth stretching to a single E5-2687w v2 as the 3D modeling will be noticeably faster and a better gaming capability.

The E5-2690 is a very good combination of core /thread count and the turbo speed of 3.8GHz provides a good Passmark single thread rating of 1877. The Passmark calculation cycles rate of the z620 I upgraded of 22625 is also very good. comparing to an E5-2640 v3 (8C @ 2.6 /3.4, 2016, $950 each), produces a CPU rating of 21579 and single-threaded of 1733, so the E5-2690 is making contemporary performance for $1,200 less. compare also to modern CPU such as the i7-6700K (4C@4.0 /4.2GHz). The single thread rating is in the top tier- 2348, but the CPU mark of 11105 and having 8 threads for rendering instead of 32 means rendering times significantly longer.

Other systems to consider: HP z820, Dell Precision T5600, T7600, T7610 (can use E5-2600 v2)

I've had two HP z420's and the z620, and along with the Dell Precisions: 390, T3500, T5400, and T5500, all the used workstations I've had since 2009 have been 100% reliable, not a single component failure nor loss of data.

Cheers,

BambiBoom
 
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C

Cody_CAD

Commendable
Jan 20, 2017
8
0
1,510


Bambiboom,

I am way out of my league here, especially dealing with workstation and multi-CPU machines.

What you say makes sense to me ( kind of like explain an ant's existence to an ant, haha) and i am definitely leaning toward this solution.

One of my hesitations, however, is the 'future-proof' of a used workstation system. I understand my (lower) budget has a lot to do with that, but will multi-year old / multi-generation old components put me the same position i am in now .... which is building / buying new is cheaper that upgrading what already have?

This machine will also serve as my wife's business computer (private sales consultant .... nothing demanding on the technological side, but she will ring my neck if i botch it .. haha) so upgrading as rarely as possible is a good idea for me.

I do want to upgrade to a better graphics card , or even a dual card arrangement, as funds allow (12-18 months) and i am always willing to upgrade RAM to faster speeds and larger amounts and the CPUs.

I did run across this system which already has (2x) e5-2690, 64GB of RAM, and a Quadro 600.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-Z620-Workstation-2X-Dual-Xeon-E5-2690-2-9Ghz-Octo-8-Core-64GB-1Tb-Win-7-Pro-Q-/311785727238?hash=item4897e0a506:g:EAcAAOSwo4pYcGbo


I understand the 600 is miles behind the 4000 ... but it will still be an upgrade from what i currently have (onboard laptop graphics that stall with the smallest and easiest renders). Upgrading from the 600 will the be the first step and adding in the SSD and HDDs will also come relatively quickly.


However, for storage and transfer speeds .... should i be looking for more recent technology like M.2? I often find myself moving large files or sets of files (50GB routinely) on an off of my long term storage. My current storage is external running across USB .... and this task takes hours.

Or should i be looking to update my long term storage away from HDDs all together?


 
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bambiboom

bambiboom

Splendid
Apr 7, 2012
2,462
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Cody_CAD,

It's certainly possible to build a system for $2,000 that will run SW, light video editing, and some gaming, and the resulting system should present a noticeable improvement to the current system, but that system may also need upgrading before the upgraded workstation.

One of the principal concerns is that both Solidwork rendering and video editing are CPU-intensive and distributed. I tried some test rendering last weekend of a 152MB Sketchup 3D model and the HP z420 after half an hour crashed as that rendering needed 42GB of RAM and the z420 only has 32GB. However, the HP z620 VRay 16-core / 64GB rendering system ran the 32-threads at 100% and finished a 3180 X 2140 rendering in a bit less than 11 minutes. Performance is performance and being able to use two 8-core Xeon E5 - that cost $2,050 each new- for less cost than a single high speed Xeon E3 4-core, can mean that an upgrade would be a longer way off.

The system suggested by our friend frapport is an example of a system that would have quite good performance overall and very good in single-threaded processes- the i7-6700K is in the top tier in that aspect, but the four cores would not excel in Solidworks CPU rendering as compared to an 8-core or better dual 8-cores, SW is not very happy with GTX -series as it's OpenGL while gaming cards concentrate on Direct X performance,and for professional work,a Quadro can run higher color depth and anti-aliasing.

So the question becomes one of adjusting the performance expectation to the budget and in my view, the most effective way is to use depreciated components, particularly the CPU's.

The used system with the E5-2690's could be a good prospect if it's under $700 or so- the GPU would have to be changed immediately but another tactic to consider a Supermicro Workstation, the SYS-7037A-IL. It's a barebones system that uses Xeon E5-2600 first series and v2, such the user simply plug in the CPU's,mounts the coolers, RAM, GPU, and drives and very reasonably priced really - $550.

For your use, you could buy a SYS-7037 and start with a pair of 8-core E5-2690 ($175 each), 32GB of DDR3-1866 ECC registered RAM (about $300) and a Quadro M4000 8GB (used, about $650), a Samsung 850 Evo 500GB ($175) + WD Black 1TB ($90) and optical drive-$20- a total of about $1800. Everything would be new except the CPU's and GPU. That would be my recommendation.

For the future, if the projects seem bogged down, replace the CPU's with a pair of Xeon E5-2687w v2's (8-core at 3.4 .4.0GHz)- now about $700 each- but in three years perhaps $450-500- change the M4000 for the upcoming Quadro P4000 8GB- probably about $900- and apparently faster than a Quadro M5000 8GB that costs $1,900, add RAM to have 64GB or 96GB, an M.2 Drive and etc. and have another three years. I'm thinking seriously of selling both my systems and doing a system along those lines once the P4000 is released.

Cheers,

BambiBoom
 
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aquielisunari

Judicious
Mar 31, 2011
6,499
14
33,015


Do you already have a high-end monitor? That will take a SIGNIFICANT bite out of the budget.

Do you already have Windows 10?

What sort of peripherals do you have? Keyboard? Mouse? Sound system?

Have you looked to your Resource monitor while working on your CAD tasks? I am curious what your RAM usage was. Maxing out RAM with the motherboard I have in mind means 64GB and that seems like extreme overkill. It will also take a HUGE bite out of the budget. Looking for balance and we need to meet and SLIGHTLY exceed your needs. Longevity does add value to a build.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i7-7700K 4.2GHz Quad-Core Processor ($343.89 @ OutletPC)
CPU Cooler: Corsair H100i v2 70.7 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler ($96.99 @ Best Buy)
Motherboard: MSI Z270-A PRO ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($114.99 @ B&H)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX 32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR4-2666 Memory ($171.58 @ Amazon)
Storage: Crucial MX300 525GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($139.99 @ Best Buy)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($49.33 @ OutletPC)
Video Card: Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1070 8GB Windforce OC Video Card ($379.00 @ Jet)
Case: Fractal Design Define R5 (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case ($79.99 @ NCIX US)
Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA G2 550W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($77.89 @ OutletPC)
Optical Drive: Asus DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS DVD/CD Writer ($18.80 @ OutletPC)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 10 Home OEM 64-bit ($88.58 @ OutletPC)
Monitor: BenQ BL3200PT 32.0" 2560x1440 60Hz Monitor ($397.60 @ B&H)
Total: $1958.63
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-01-27 13:34 EST-0500


7700K Leans towards CAD and editing but certainly boosts GAMING power in high end titles that can utilize an i7 efficiently. Chose a motherboard that will fully support the newest Kaby Lake CPU

You had an Antec but I think they have fallen out of favor and quality so I chose a different AIO closed loop water cooler.

I chose a case with the water cooler in mind. Didn't want a workstation to be too flashy. Understated but POWERFUL!.

The SSD had to be big enough for the games but fast enough for CAD and editing. A 1TB drive for storage of completed jobs, videos and other media that won't benefit from the SSD.

I would have had to go with an insanely priced Quadro GFX card to make Solidworks happy so I had to compromise with the GFX card.

A high end PSU that exceeds your system's requirements. Warranty? 7 years.

Windows 10? Check.

The monitor leans heavily towards CAD but also will allow the 1070 to fully spread her wings.

RAM? 32GB.
 
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Cody_CAD

Commendable
Jan 20, 2017
8
0
1,510
So here is where i am currently:

From my own research, and the amazing help from this site and those that posted, i am leaning heavily toward the workstation solution. I think the workstation is the best route for my work, and leaves room for upgrading down the road. When I can budget more, i will upgrade to next gen graphics, maybe a new case, but definitely RAM and CPUS. My only hesitation right now is finding used parts at the stated prices. Specifically the CPUS and RAM. The prices i am finding currently are pushing me right at, or over my highest figure of $2k which leaves me little room for a monitor (or two).

Here is my current breakdown:


SC8Uazh.jpg




One more question concerning RAM, Is it better to use fewer higher capacity modules or to use more lower capacity modules to use as many slots as possible? or am i asking a question too simple for the complexity of the answer?
 
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F

fluked

Commendable
Jan 25, 2017
66
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1,660
According to my magic E-Bay ball, it looks like you can get 8GB memory modules for 15usd a piece. As far as 16GB modules, there's a lot of trash, but one seller has 3 for 52.50 a piece (you'd need 1 more). Stick with the general names of Micron, Supermicro (usually Micron), Samsung and Hynix. Some of the names on E-Bay I've never heard of.

ddr3 ecc registered 1333 8gb

BTW, I don't know why bambi picked that audio card (Creative Titanium), as I know nothing about them. But, I wonder what is so special about it (the specs just basically list DD and DTS decoding).
 
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Cody_CAD

Commendable
Jan 20, 2017
8
0
1,510
So the question is:

Should i got for 8 x 8gb ram modules or should i go 4x16?

I guess what im asking is: would one be more beneficial than the other?

From the manufacturer spec sheet:

"Up to 12 DIMM slots with 2 CPUs, up to 192 GB, 8-channel ECC DDR3-1866 (Transfer rates up to 1866 MT/s); 4 channels per CPU"

The processors support only up to DDR3-1600, i will be running two processors.
 
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bambiboom

bambiboom

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Apr 7, 2012
2,462
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21,965


Cody_CAD,

The key to the upgrade approach process is to find good prices on the components. Unfortunately, Winter is the time of year when parts are more expensive.

How about:

HP Z620 Workstation 2x Xeon E5-2603 1.8GHz 8GB 250GB Win 7 Pro 1 Yr Wty > $434.99

2X SR0L0 Intel Xeon E5-2690 2.9GHz Eight Core (CM8062101122501) Processor > $330 ($165 each)

8X HP 8GB 1Rx4 PC3-12800R Gen8 Server Memory 647899-B21 647651-081 DL360p DL380p > $190 ($23.83 each or offer)

Pny Nvidia Quadro K4200 4GB GDDR5 PCI-E 2.0 x16 Video Card > $450

Samsung SSD - Solid State Drive 850 EVO 500GB MZ-75E500B/AM SSD SATA3 2.5" > $165.95

WD Black 1TB Performance Desktop Hard Disk Drive - 7200 RPM SATA 6Gb/s 64MB Cache 3.5 Inch - WD1003FZEX > $150 ($75 each)

The system will already have Windows 7 Prof'l 64-bit
________________________________

System:__ $434
CPU's: ___ $330
RAM: ____ $190
GPU:_____ $450
Drive1:___ $166
Drives 2,3: $150
________________________________
TOTAL= $1,720

That's in the middle of the $1,500-$2,000 budget and would have 64GB of RAM and, very importantly, a Quadro K4200 4GB, which has a Passmark average 3D mark of 4444 as compared to a Quadro 4000's score of 1962. Where are you seeing Quadro 4000's costing $400 ?:

Nvidia quadro 4000 2gb ddr5 > $80

It's also possible to upgrade the system initially with a single E5-2690 and 32GB of RAM for about $1475.

I'm still inclined somewhat towards the Supermicro 7037 system as more of it new, it doesn't use a 2nd CPU riser, can accommodate three instead of two GPU's and importantly, can use Xeon E5-2600 v2 CPUs up to 12 cores instead of 8, plus DDR3-1866. The imortant feature is that v2's typically are quite a bit better in the single-thread performance and can have up to 12-cores. for example, if the system were done with E5-2690's- which have a Passmark single threaded rating of 1857, and in two years the SW modeling was a bit sluggish, change to a pair of E5-2687w v2's 8C@ 3.4/4.0GHz- which by then will cost about $600 each- and have a single-thread rating of 2052. However, if the GPU has a strong performance the navigation in 3D will seem about the same.

Cheers,

BambiBoom
 
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Cody_CAD

Commendable
Jan 20, 2017
8
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Bambi,

I was looking at the 8GB Quadro M4000. Upon further research, however, I am going to go with the Quadro K5000 since the system will support SLI with that GPU which will simplify future upgrades. I have been seeing those for about $300-$400

I ran the numbers, and i went ahead and pulled the trigger on the $999 system from Ebay. It was the cheapest option of getting the same system. It will be delivered on Thursday.

I already have the keyboard and mouse. I am ordering two monitors, webcam, and optical drive today. I hope to be up and running on Friday.




 
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Cody_CAD

Commendable
Jan 20, 2017
8
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update:

The used workstation is working flawlessly. I had a few hickups transferring old files to the new system ... some system settings got tossed around or lost altogether and it took a few recoveries and additional transfers to get everything right.

HP Z620
2 x E5-2690
64 GB DDR3-1600 ECC
1TB WD Exterprise
Nvidia Quadro 600
Creative SBZ Audio
Creative 5.1 Speakers
2 x Asus 23.6 Monitors
Batttery Backup / surge protection



I will be adding some more storage, definitely a Samsung EVO 512 MB SSD for the OS with the next few months and likely 3 more of the 1TB enterprise storage HDDs further down the road for a RAID 10 setup.

in the next few months i will also be adding the Quadro K5000 to replace the K600 .... although the K600 is performing exponentially better than the old laptop did on its best days.

The laptop is being handed down to the son so i no longer have to deal with leapfrog or leappad popups...

Thanks all for your help! I will never again even consider a single CPU system!
 
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bambiboom

bambiboom

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Apr 7, 2012
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Cody_CAD,

Well done- that looks like a very good specification.

The Quadro K5000 4GB is a very good GPU for CAD use. However, before buying, have a look at the new Pascal Quadros being released next month (March) as I think it will possible that spending the same amount +about $100 as a used K5000- about $450- on a new Pascal Quadro P2000 5GB will have noticeably better performance:

Review: Nvidia Quadro P2000 and Quadro P4000 for CAD, viz & VR

The prices there are in GBP, but these days that number is similar to the cost in USD.

Notice in that review that the P2000 is consistently outperforming a Quadro M4000 8GB and in some uses, equaling or surpassing the M5000 8GB- a $1,900 GPU. In the Passmark GPU chart, the average 3D mark for the M4000 is 6653 and 8463 for the M5000. For comparison, the Quadro K5000 score = 3997. A GTX Titan Z is 7880, so Quadros don't have to look like expensive but sluggish relations to GTX any longer.

The review is very interesting in the description in the way the P2000 and P4000 interact with the CPU in relation to the single-thread performance. If the CPU is not an absolute hot rod, given the CPU calculation intensive big programs such as Solidworks and Revit, the CPU will hold the GPU performance back. The test system in the review is using an i7-7700K at 4.5GHz which has the highest single-thread performance of any CPU- 2599- so the E5-2690 at 1856 running at 3.8Ghz is going to throttle the P2000 back.

Notice the unique 160-bit memory bandwidth 5GB memory of the Quadro P2000. I've never heard of a GPU that wasn't 128, 256, 384, or rarely 512-bit (Quadro FX5800) except the M6000 is strange one 317-bit.

I had been waiting until Quadro M4000 prices dropped to $500 to buy one to replace a K4200, but it appears that a P2000 will be plenty for my uses. If I ever change to GPU rendering, I can add another P2000. -And, they are single height and only use 75W so heat or covering PCIe slots will not be an issue.

Recently, I've run some test CPU renderings on the z620 and from a 152MB Sketchup model- single lighting source- running all 32 threads at 100%, a 3180 by 1640 took 10:20. A couple of cores reached 78-80C briefly, but in general the temperatures were 71-74C.

Cheers,

BambiBoom
 
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