Repurposing a server as a workstation: Beggar's Supercomputer.

wertciu · Jan 25, 2017

Hi,

Basically I want to build the most powerful workstation possible for under $300. The inspiration for this build comes from this video: $150 gaming mobo/cpu/ram combo. But instead of gaming I would like it to be a fully capable (or as capable as possible) video editing/content creation workstation. Here is what I've got so far:
Motherboard: Supermicro X8DTN+ -$90
CPU: 2X Xeon E5645 -$30 each
RAM: 2X Samsung Registered ECC RAM (listed as compatible on supermicro's website) -$15 each
PSU: EVGA Supernova 750w -$80

The biggest problem with this build was the case, so I'm thinking I'll buy a plastic box and drill my own standoffs, mounts, etc. and build it in that. But then I'm not entirely sure how to connect things like the power button or front panel USB. Also how to secure any pcie cards when they are installed.

Aside from that (my biggest problem), my concerns are the motherboard compatibility with such things as the power supply connectors and BIOS compatibility with the next generation Xeons. Any other advice on this build/idea regarding a case, compatible parts, performance and such would be very helpful. Thanks!

USAFRet · Jan 25, 2017

That $150 system cheats, because he's not counting the expensive GPU.

For your $300 thing? You still need a GPU, case, PSU, OS.
It would cost you more to build a case from 'a plastic box' vs just buying some $20 piece of junk. Or finding one for free in a dumpster.

For your CPU? Sure, if you like 7 year old parts.
You could probably find a whole working system of comparable vintage on fleabay for that money.

wertciu · Jan 25, 2017

USAFRet :

I've got a PSU in that list, and my OS is Linux, so no cost there. I'm planning on using the iGPU for the moment then upgrading later. Altogether it's $260 without the case or HDD, to me that's not bad for a 12core/24thread computer, even if IPC is akin to that of a fx-8350.
And if you know of a case that supports EE-ATX motherboards I will gladly buy it.

USAFRet · Jan 25, 2017

wertciu :

You know that Xeon has no iGPU, right?

wertciu · Jan 25, 2017

USAFRet :

Of course Xeons don't have iGPU, but server motherboards sometimes have a iGPU on the mobo itself, and this mobo has a iGPU (it says so at the supermicro product information page).

I know this isn't the most up-to-date build, I just want to know if (A) it will actually work, and (B) if it will be at all practical.
If you have another suggestion for a comparable PC build under $300, I would be happy to look at it, but so far the next closest thing I could come up with was this: pcpartpicker list. While it has decent single threaded performance (especially after OC'ing) it's multithreaded performance just wouldn't cut it for video/content creation.

USAFRet · Jan 25, 2017

I'd rather get the build in your PCPP list.
That gains you an easy upgrade to a multi threaded CPU later down the road.

Yes, that Xeon is more capable than the G3258.
But you're buying into almost decade old tech, for a single purpose.

wertciu · Jan 25, 2017

USAFRet :

OK, that almost makes sense, except for:
The Xeon build supports 288GB of DDR3, and the Pentium one supports 32GB of DDR3
The best CPU for the Haswell build is the 4790K, which is 4c/8t @4GHz, while the dual Xeons equal 12c/24t @ 2.4GHz.

So it all comes down to IPC. The 4790K has a IPC of 1516, while the Xeon has an IPC of 1077 (according to cpubenchmark.net), so according to my calculations that means Haswell has a 40% IPC gain over Westmere, and taking into account the higher clock speed of the 4790K, the Haswell build has the potential to have 134% faster single threaded performance over the Xeon build.

I realize that is a significant increase in single treaded performance, but with video editing and content creation apps scaling so well across multiple core these days how much more performance will the 8 extra cores give over the 4 cores of the i7?
So yes, buying into an old platform isn't the most future wise thing to do, but considering the fact that Westmere architecture is exactly three years behind Haswell, the biggest concern I have now is how much better the Pentium will perform in video editing compared to dual Xeons.

I really appreciate your help, and I completely understand that Haswell offers a much better upgrade path overall, but the Pentium build is unlikely to ever be anything but a Pentium build, as in a couple of years my next upgrade will probably be on a different socket.

I would really like advice regarding the compatibility of the hardware I've selected, and on how to go about getting a case for it, as I'm nearly convinced that I will appreciate the multi-threaded gains of the Xeons over other offerings at the same price point.

USAFRet · Jan 25, 2017

Yes, that motherboard only supports 32GB max.
It also comes down to....what level is the video editing you are doing?

I have a i7-4790k/Z97m/32GB RAM.
For medium grade video editing, it is just fine.

If you are doing this as part of a paid gig, all day, every day...that's a different story.

If your goal is to build a Xeon based workstation within $300, that another story again.

For instance, here's a dual Xeon Poweredge, with 48GB RAM. $150, just add drives.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-Poweredge-R710-2x-Xeon-E5645-6-CORE-48gb-Perc-6i-2xPSU-Takes-2-5-/332098264087

There are others just like it.

wertciu · Jan 25, 2017

USAFRet :

No, I am not paid, I'm in college and have very little money, and probably won't have for a number of years, hence the tight budget. Whet level of video editing? Not entirely sure what you mean, but I'll mostly be using Blender.
As for that Dell, it looks really great, and such a great price too, with all the ram, case and everything. I'll be able to add a video card right off the bat with that price, and couple of nice HDD or SSD.

That link really pointed me in a direction towards what looks like a really good value computer, and I really appreciate it, thanks a lot.

Rogue Leader · Jan 25, 2017

Just want to add an aside here. The ATI ES1000 iGPU that Supermicro server board has is the most basic of basic chipsets. Its good enough for basic server maintenance and thats it. You won't be editing video, getting any sort of good reproduction, or much of anything out of it. It is really not made for everyday use at all, at least not with anything even vaguely modern. It was low end 10 years ago when it came out.

kanewolf · Jan 25, 2017

Buying a used workstation is not a bad thing. Buying a used 2U server when you have to be in the same room is a bad thing. If you have never been around servers, they are EXTREMELY noisy.

Even though @USAFRet (a normally reliable fellow moderator) posted that link, I would be wary because of the lack of additional pictures of the inside, the back and other aspects of that server. It would be useful to know what type of riser cards it has, does it have a PERc card, are all the air-flow baffles intact, etc.

USAFRet · Jan 26, 2017

And to reiterate kanewolf....that server I posted would be LOUD.

For your use case, the parts list you have on pcpp would be, IMHO, a better way forward.
Resorting to parts that are several years old, just to fit into a $300 budget, probably is not the way to go.

logainofhades · Jan 26, 2017

This would at least give you something you can upgrade.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Pentium G4560 3.5GHz Dual-Core Processor ($75.00 @ B&H)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-B250M-DS3H Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($73.98 @ Newegg)
Memory: G.Skill Aegis 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR4-2400 Memory ($52.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Toshiba Product Series

T01ACA 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($46.89 @ OutletPC)
Case: Rosewill FBM-05 MicroATX Mini Tower Case ($24.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: SeaSonic 350W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply ($31.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Total: $305.84
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-01-26 09:35 EST-0500

wertciu · Jan 26, 2017

Rogue Leader :

I've realized that, as the Dell has the same problem (Matrox g200, est 1998!), and I will be correcting it with a r7 350 after I confirm that it works.

wertciu · Jan 26, 2017

USAFRet :

I have extensively compared the pentium to the xeon, and while the pentium shreds the xeon in single and dual threaded performance, at quad thread programs the xeon has a 28% advantage, and with video editors being able to utilize all 24 threads the xeon has to offer the pentium just doesn't make sense in a computer that will be replaced completely (no upgrade), especially since I'll be able to buy a much better GPU for the xeon build.
As for the noise, I do realize that the server is going to need attention in that area, and I am looking into case modding with some desktop grade case fans. If you guys have advice in that area I'll appreciate it.

wertciu · Jan 26, 2017

kanewolf :

Yes, I realize its going to be loud, and I have some rough ideas for modding the case to accept regular case fans, but I am still not entirely sure how to do it and would welcome any advice.

Thanks for pointing out some of the problems in the link, I'll contact the seller and ask him about those things.

USAFRet · Jan 26, 2017

Desktop size fans would require a whole different case.

Those rack cases are short, vertically.
To remove the heat (and thats a lot of heat) they use little fans. Being little, they have to spin FAST.
Fast = loud.

If you must go this Xeon server route, look into something in a desktop shaped case. Not a rack server 2U case.

wertciu · Jan 26, 2017

USAFRet :

Yes, a desktop shaped case would be much quieter and easier to work in, but the problem is that I order the server you provided the link to already. I realize that I won't be able to eliminate the need for those little fans entirely, but I was hoping I would be able to manually turn down the speed of them if I added some extra case fans (in a horizontal position). Another idea, could I use several of These?

wertciu · Jan 26, 2017

USAFRet :

New idea, buy 4 60mm fans, arrange them around the heatsink in a push/pull configuration, and add regular fans on top of the case for exhaust.
Or, buy two waterblocks, a radiator and some tubes to create a custom water loop.
Any other ideas?

Rogue Leader · Jan 26, 2017

Can you cancel the order, because right now it sounds like you are going to throw quite a bit of money at solving a problem that you should not need to solve on a "$300" system. For someone looking for a budget solution you are finding many new and innovative ways to light money on fire.

With a 2U case you are not getting around it sounding like an F-16. Heck I have noctua fans on my 2U server which are the quietest and its still freekin loud. And my case is quite a bit more open and different than the one you have there.

Needless to say cancelling your order on that is the best idea. If thats not possible then you can much more easily and cheaply just buy a new case and move the parts over to it. I really really hope you didn't buy that thing.

wertciu · Jan 26, 2017

Rogue Leader :

Yes, you are right about the money and crazy solutions.
Buying a different case is a wonderful idea, but I am not sure if the r710 came in any other form factors besides u2.
Would putting it in a closet and running the cables to my desk be a better idea? I've got long cables.
As for canceling it, I suppose I could, but after spending all day calculating the performance of the thing I am looking forward to using it, as it is quite an upgrade from my current system.

How loud are 2u fans? is it possible to muffle them at all? Are they quieter than 1u fans?

Rogue Leader · Jan 26, 2017

wertciu :

2U is the size of the case, the largest fan that it will fit is 80mm, but they are likely smaller than that. 1U cases definitely use smaller fans. Both are loud as hell. Muffling them using filters significantly reduces their performance since they are so small they will just work harder as they are temp controlled (or just set to go full tilt).

It may be an upgrade but it is really not what you need and with a bit more searching you likely could have found a workstation without this insane problem to solve for nearly the same price and performance.

Or you could have went with the pentium buuld that maybe would do the actual video encoding slower, but in terms of using the machine and creating your videos and whatnot would have been faster and upgradeable. Unfortunately for example if this system fails you can't just go any buy any PSU.

For solving your problem buying that server is literally the worst choice, he did not mean it for you to buy it but just to show you an example of whats out there.

wertciu · Jan 27, 2017

Rogue Leader :

If you found a workstation with the same specs and price I would definitely cancel the order immediately, but it sounds too good to be true.

One thing I don't think you guys get is that I'm not going to be upgrading this computer, I just was the absolute best $300 can get right now. As for psu, there are two of them (in case one fails) and they are server grade, so they should last longer as servers are meant to be running 24/7 for years.

How loud is a 2u server with 5 fans? Vacuum cleaner? Hairdryer? Can I use software to tweak the fan speed so it will be quiet at idle and only spin fast when I'm doing cpu-heavy tasks?

The biggest problem right now is definitely the noise, and I'll try to cancel the order today if you think that it will be too big of a problem.

USAFRet · Jan 27, 2017

You have 2 issues:

1. Noise.

2. How are you going to fit a rational GPU in that 2U case?

How loud? Have you ever been in a server room? Lots of noise.
It's loud in there. But...it doesn't seem as loud, because of the environment.

In your otherwise quiet living room, it will seem a LOT louder. Not quite hair dryer, but far too loud to be running all the time.

Personally, I would cancel that purchase, and continue the hunt.

Rogue Leader · Jan 27, 2017

wertciu :

How loud? F-16. And no you can't adjust the fan speeds, most are locked because its designed for an environment where they don't need to be quieter.

While a little more money, these two are ready to go out of the box, the first one even has a good GPU for video editing:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-Z800-WORKSTATION-2x-Xeon-SIX-Core-2-8GH-X5660-24GB-1-16TB-Quadro-4000-6321842/232217361957?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D20131003132420%26meid%3D4f5d8f35380643b8a6858acd932dc02c%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D232210523854

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-Z800-WORKSTATION-2x-Xeon-Six-Core-2-4Ghz-E5645-16GB-256GB-SSD-6415847-/232210523854?hash=item3610d366ce:g:7cUAAOSwt5hYf6LS

Same dual processor setup as the server you bought, and these are basically plug and play except installing the OS.

Repurposing a server as a workstation: Beggar's Supercomputer.

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It's a trap!

Titan

Titan

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Commendable

Commendable

Commendable

Titan

Commendable

Commendable

It's a trap!

Commendable

It's a trap!

Commendable

Titan

It's a trap!

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