Ryzen realistically vs 7700k

Dans Hardware · Jan 30, 2017

So im building a pc gtx 1070, 512gb m.2 pcie ssd, z270 mobo. I dont want an amd cpu but depending on how price differs including mobos i may, also more importantly do you think that intel will lower their prices?

Gam3r01 · Jan 30, 2017

Intel will most likely not lower their prices for two reasons.
If Ryzen dosent perform better than intel processors, they wont lower anything.
If Ryzen performs better than intel processors, AMD will price accordingly, meaning higher prices overall (most likely) Intel can afford not to lower prices, AMD cant.

Nobody can tell how Ryzen will change the CPU market. In my opinion, it wont change much (sadly).

TJ Hooker · Jan 30, 2017

Based on limited, currently available data, Ryzen has similar IPC to Broadwell (in certain workloads anyway), but we don't know how high it's going to clock. It's really too early to say how it will compare to Sky/Kaby Lake.

Many people are expecting/hoping for price drops, but it's all speculation at this point. No one can say for sure.

Ryzen is currently rumoured for late Feb/early March release, if you can wait that long you might as well see how things pan out and then build your system.

maikutech · Jan 30, 2017

Intel has never been the company to drop their prices for no one, that includes AMD its arch rival in the cpu market.
If you can grab the intel cpu while its at a good price range, go ahead and pick it up.
If you want ryzen whenever it releases it"ll cost you 250.00 for a quadcore.
http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/new-product/pc-components/amd-zen-processor-release-date-price-specs-features-3643552/
Ryzen Quad Core: £200 inc VAT
More heavier price tag compared to its FX series but still cheaper than intel at the moment.
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117726
100+ dollar difference, if you can build your system for under 1000$ go ahead and do so now.

sizzling · Jan 30, 2017

Intel are the market leading brand with a huge % of market share. Can't see any reason they will drop prices, if AMD did release something special I imagine it will just make Intel push there next gen CPU's through sooner.

JamesSneed · Jan 30, 2017

Agree with the first two comments. The only place you may see Intel lower prices is on there socket 2011 chips but I wouldn't count on it. Even if AMD beats Intel in that arena Intel will have Skylake chips coming out to replace the broadwell chips this summer. If its pricing I don't think it really matters to wait to be honest. The only place it makes since to wait is if you want/need a 8-core/16-thread machine as I can very well see AMD undercutting Intel's highly overpriced enthusiast chips but I don't see the same occurring with the normal chips like the 7700k competitor since those haven't had the price gouging increases.

TJ Hooker · Jan 30, 2017

maikutech :

The prices listed in that article are PCAdvisor's predictions based on, well, nothing. We really don't know how much Ryzen is going to cost.

maikutech · Jan 30, 2017

TJ Hooker :

maikutech :

The prices listed in that article are PCAdvisor's predictions based on, well, nothing. We really don't know how much Ryzen is going to cost.

Well then just leave it as example, I'm not saying thats official price tag you and I both know that.

razamatraz · Feb 7, 2017

Dans Hardware :

Based on very limited benchmarks (which are released by AMD so have to be assumed to be cherry picking the best scenarios) The IPC beats Broadwell slightly so is a little worse than Skylake. To compete performance wise with a 7700K that means they need a 4 core 8 thread chip that can clock to 5 GHz or has a base clock of 4.4. No one has shown that yet with Ryzen so there is no way to tell but so far it looks like clocking that high is unlikely. Remember, this is AMDs first 14 nm chip while Intel is already on generation 3.

If we assume that last statement is true then they have to beat it the same way they tried in the Bulldozer Scenario: more cores, so a 6 core 6 thread, 6 core 12 thread or 8 core something is the competitor. To be fair there are games now that are showing gains with 8 threads and with more than 4 physical cores so the timing might be right this time around, but it also means they have to undercut the 7700K (And 7740K if rumors are true) with a 6 core CPU....that might be a lot to ask.

Regardless I do expect some price changes but not more than 10% drop to Intel's high end mainstream or enthusiast processors. There might be far more in the i5, i3, Pentium lineups but you're looking higher.

maikutech · Feb 7, 2017

razamatraz :

Dans Hardware :

Based on very limited benchmarks (which are released by AMD so have to be assumed to be cherry picking the best scenarios) The IPC beats Broadwell slightly so is a little worse than Skylake. To compete performance wise with a 7700K that means they need a 4 core 8 thread chip that can clock to 5 GHz or has a base clock of 4.4. No one has shown that yet with Ryzen so there is no way to tell but so far it looks like clocking that high is unlikely. Remember, this is AMDs first 14 nm chip while Intel is already on generation 3.

If we assume that last statement is true then they have to beat it the same way they tried in the Bulldozer Scenario: more cores, so a 6 core 6 thread, 6 core 12 thread or 8 core something is the competitor. To be fair there are games now that are showing gains with 8 threads and with more than 4 physical cores so the timing might be right this time around, but it also means they have to undercut the 7700K (And 7740K if rumors are true) with a 6 core CPU....that might be a lot to ask.

Regardless I do expect some price changes but not more than 10% drop to Intel's high end mainstream or enthusiast processors. There might be far more in the i5, i3, Pentium lineups but you're looking higher.

I agree for a price drop looking at this thread here I think most people agree on that subject.
http://www.techist.com/forums/f62/amd-ryzen-278777/
If ryzen soon to be line up of chips doesn't do much better than the currently release skylake/kaby chips.
I'm not going the am4 route late in 2018 and just stick with the intel for a good while.

razamatraz · Feb 7, 2017

maikutech :

Price drop yes, the 40% drop people were hoping for...not even close. 15% at most and this might not propagate out until a couple months after launch depending on actual availability. AMD has had problems with shipping volume lately so even if we get a March 1 launch you might not be able to find one until June.

The worst case scenario is these chips don't actually perform and Intel raises prices in the low to mid range.

I'm sure Intel has samples tested already though as there must be thousands out there by now for motherboard makers to test with and they already have their pricing strategy completely fleshed out.

JamesSneed · Feb 8, 2017

@razamatraz, agree. What most people are not accounting for is AMD's 8c/16t Ryzen is going up against Intels 8c or 10c chips which are selling for $1000+. They may under cut Intels $1500 10c part by 40% which would still leave the AMD CPU costing $600. This one scenario I can see occurring but I would not hold out on hugely lower prices on the lower end chips as it just not going to happen if AMD actually has a competitive product like all signs are pointing to.

razamatraz · Feb 8, 2017

JamesSneed :

I don't know if all signs are pointing to it, in fact less signs are pointing to it so far than were with Buldozer, and I got burned there. There are no signs at all pointing to a 10 core competitor, but realistically that's such a niche chip that I wouldn't expect any. If the 1800x is actually as good as a 6900k, then it's game on at the high end, and that's great. But AMD needs to make money, and no one who already has a 6900k is going to switch to something that performs exactly the same so they will be relying on new buyers. They are going to have to balance these things and undercut Intel by enough to entice mainstream or 5820k level buyers but not sell so cheap that they can't make money on it. Tons of revenue and no profit don't help them, they've had that for a decade almost. So, if 1800x matched 6900k I expect a $750 MSRP and probably $900 in store on release; the old availability markup.

What's striking me as weird in these leaks is that they put the top 8c16t against 6900k but the bottom one against 7700k? a 7700k is literally half the chip as a 6900k. how can a 3.0 8c16t be competing that much lower than a 3.6 8c16t? There are a lot of self-contradictions in these leaks to the point that I'm writing them all off as BS. two weeks ago there were no 6 cores, but there were 8c8t, now they are all "hyperthreaded" and 6 cores are back.....I hope these chips are amazing, I hope they knock prices down a bit, I hope AMD makes a profit on them but the only thing I believe right now is that an 1800x beat a 6900k by 2 seconds in a blender render and plays doom fine since we actually saw them do that at CES. Those are the only demos with actual numbers behind them and they came from AMD.....so yah, wait for the benches, wait for the MSRPs and wait to see what they price is on actual store shelves. Go AMD, but I'll believe it when I see it.

JamesSneed · Feb 9, 2017

razamatraz :

Sorry you got burnt. Everyone should wait for full testing from the major sites like tomsHarware and many others before even thinking about these new chips. I certainly wont get on the AMD train until I see 3-4 reviews from reputable sites but if they do show Ryzen to be competitive I very likely will jump on board as I'm still rocking a OC'ed 2500K. There is a lot of crap flying around about prices, core counts etc that I would take with a grain of salt as AMD has announced none of that officially. So far what AMD has shown us(the demos you mentioned) has been promising at the very least. I REALLY hope they under played there hand a bit as we desperately need the competition back to stop the high prices and stagnation of Intel.

maikutech · Feb 9, 2017

Well if amd would keep their main cpus for performances on windows, linux and apps that do take up alot to run decently these days.
They could keep a good lead over intel, part of the reason I stayed with amds phenom and second generation fx series.
The chips did most of the muscle work in the os, they fall short on big name games and suffer horribly in dolphin and PCSX2.
They need a good dedicated graphic cards for it to be quite pleasent.

I'm going to keep on eye on pc magazine because usually amd will send stuff to them before it hits the shelves for reviews.

razamatraz · Feb 9, 2017

JamesSneed :

It would be great to see some chips that are not just as good as but actually better than Intel chips, and not just for the price, but straight up better. Pricing would be icing on the cake.

I shouldn't say I got super burned by Buldozer but it was a big disappointment; bought the best 990FX board I could find and ended up sticking with a 1090T until the 8350 came out because the 8150 just wasn't that good. I certainly appreciate what AMD was trying then, with cores over IPC but the computing world just wasn't ready for it then and the single FPU per 2 Int cores really hurt in too many loads. I hope we are ready now although I finally bit the bullet and went to a 6700K last year so I won't need an upgrade for a while; my first Intel based machine since my q6600.

XpJAY · Feb 10, 2017

I would definitely expect a price drop and newer better value offerings from Intel. They have already announced a multi threaded i5 in response. The amount will depend on AMD price and performance.

Ziga Stupar · Feb 10, 2017

Well in gaming I7 6900k is very close too i5 6700k and if we assume 1800x ryzen can keep up with i7 6900k so we can expect around 5-15 fps diffrence between i5 7700k and 1800x. but make no mistake 1800x will be more expensive than i5 7700k

razamatraz · Feb 12, 2017

Ziga Stupar :

Yah, the 1800X won;t be aimed at gamers though, it'll be aimed at 4K content creators that want a better deal than Intel. I hope there is a 4c8t or 6c12t that can clock to 4.4+ though so the enthusiast who also wants to game at the top can do that.

maikutech · Feb 16, 2017

Well thats amd's main strong point for making cpu's for heavy load desktop productivity.

http://wccftech.com/amd-ryzen-7-1800x-1700x-1700/

sirhawkeye · Feb 23, 2017

The real benchmarks from users will be the real test. It's like in the photography industry (and most others)... in lab tests and on paper cameras and lenses can look great, but when you get out and shoot with them, that may change. The top-rated lens may not be a top lens afterall, and may be beat by something half its price, size, and weight (in terms of optics). Same goes for most other things, processors included. In the past, AMD has touted Intel with its 8-core designs, when in fact, in real world tests, most of them proved to only be as capable as the mid-range Intel chip. So, we shall wait and see what the "real" benchmarks bring from the gamers and user community.

Many of the tests I've seen are directly from AMD, so we don't know fully if this is a fair test or not given that PR may have added fluff to the AMD scores... Some independent lab needs to do a test for it to be official, I guess (or wait for user reviews).

sizzling · Feb 23, 2017

Hmm Volkswagon emission figures anyone?

Ok no indication any thing like that is going on but it shows how independent testing is the only meaningful way.

maikutech · Feb 23, 2017

If its from amd directly I'm quite sure they wouldn't bs people like that directly, samething could be said for intel.
If amd said their chip was better than they expected it to be and they did prove somethings by matching it against intel chips.
Just a sure fire bet it will do what they say as shown in the conference tests.
The only problem with that is intel keeps improving over time they will put amd back in its place again shortly.
Unless amd new architecture plans will allow them to keep matching against intel and make intel really improve their chips.

razamatraz · Feb 23, 2017

maikutech :

I don't think AMD will or has blatantly lied here. I do think they have chosen the benchmarks that gave them the best showing though. This is a marketing event intended to sell chips after all.

That said the prices are better than I expected by quite a bit. If the benches are representative of other applications we might actually see a 20% price drop across Intel (at least down to the 6800K). It looks like the top of the mainstream should drop price too but until we see R5 and R3 I have no idea how far. It also looks like Cannon Lake is going to have to get a 6 core on the mainstream platform.

maikutech · Feb 23, 2017

200 dollars a pop for their medium range raisen chips doesn't sound like a smart idea at all.
Time will tell when everyone gets a chance to test one or buy one.

Ryzen realistically vs 7700k

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