i7 6700K and core voltage finetuning in new pc build - I would like your input

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Strantford

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Hi everyone,

I apologize in advance for the big post, I just want to give before hand all the facts so as to help you understand my request and provide me with a "solution" (if possible) closer to my needs or reality (if my needs and wishes are not realistic).

Facts
I have built a new system based on and i7 6700K, an Asus Z270 Gaming motherboard, a Noctua NH-U14S cpu cooler and a Corsair HX-650w psu.

These first days I am performing various tests on the rig as I am new in the whole Intel 15XX architecture, coming from an old but faithful Q6600 till couple days ago (which was overclocked for the last 5 years). So I am a little bit confused with all the new terminology, the overwhelming BIOS options, vcore setting, offset, adaptive etc. Hence I would like for your help.

First of all the BIOS was updated to the latest (per Asus site) 701 version and is standing at original settings, I haven't touched anything yet.

I performed some slight stress tests both with P95 v2.66 and IXTU monitoring clocks and vcore with IXTU, cpu-z, HWmonitor and Asus AI3 suite at the same time.
The U14S and the two fans on the case are set on a mid profile created by me under Asus AI3 suite, so as to kick in at full speed (100%) when the cpu reaches 65 degrees celcious, 60% when the cpu is at 45 degrees and 80% when the cpu is at 55 degrees.

First of all currently I like the fact the under idle the cpu works at 800mhz with a vcore of 0,714 and spikes to 4,2ghz when needed. However the vcore at that point is between 1,3-1,4 as it is automatically adjusted by the system.

When stressing with P95 for 10minutes (1 test, small packs) (2 tests with a break between), cpu load is 100%, the temperature (package) reaches 65-66 degrees where the fans have already kicked in and keep the temperature between 63 and 65 degrees. Small spikes of 69-70 degrees are recorded in HWMonitor only but not in IXTU (strange).
However the voltage spikes momentarily even slightly above 1,4 and within the 1,4 area (e.g. 1,42-1,43).
When I stop the test the cpu temp drops immediately at 28-30 degrees and the fans slow down around 30-40% of their speed.


When stressing with IXTU again for 10 minutes (2 tests with a break), cpu load is 100%, the temperatures however are much lower and around 50-55 degrees (as measured by IXTU) with small spikes at 59-60 degrees which go back around 50-55 immediately as the 3 fans do their job.
The voltage during the IXTU stress is at 1,314 (reported by IXTU) and 1,342 reported by cpu-z with small momentary spikes at 1,34 in IXTU.

During all stresses the cpu is at full power at 4,2ghz,

Of course I don't rely on the info provided by Asus Ai3 regarding temps and voltages as they seem a bit off compared with IXTU, cpu-z and HWmonitor. I use it however to operate the fans, define auto programs for them and change between those.

Now my critical question

I like how the system is right now it terms of idle performance (low power, low voltage, low temps, low consumption, better cpu life), and spike performance when needed (go to 4,2) and for the time being I don't consider overclocking but it will be an option in the future (say 2-3 years).

However I would like to adjust the vcore by setting a ceiling at 1,29-1,3v, without touching anything else regarding the operation of the cpu as described in the above lines.

I want the cpu to keep idling and powering up in the same automatic way as it does now, I want the max speed to remain for the time being 4,2 (boost mode) and if not required to operate at its nominal clock of 4ghz.
However I want the vcore with a cap of 1,29-1,3 so as to avoid even the slight spikes I observe in IXTU and cpu-z, help also the temperatures (as I believe 1,29v vs 1,34v will drop 2-3 degrees more at least the temp and last but not least it will help with the better life of the cpu (I hope).

Is there an easy way to do this in Asus UEFI Bios? Set only a cap for vcore without touching anything else of the automated operation of the system? I don't want for the time being to read a ton of articles, threads and material to adjust many details in the BIOS or o/c. I just want (if possible) this small safety adjustment.

Of course if based on your experience as community, you tell me that the small spikes (milliseconds) I observe at 1,4 or the full load at 1,34 do not harm the cpu in the long run and will only help drop the temperature perhaps I should not bother and leave it as it is for the moment.

However based on what I read in this link

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/id-1800828/intel-temperature-guide.html

an i7 6700K should be kept below 60 degrees (last Norm ceiling) and the vcore should not exceed 1,4 volts.

Thank you in advance for your feedback
 
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Essentially, click on the "Extreme Tweaker" tab, scroll down to "cpu...
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Strantford

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@fabiodrm

Thank you my friend.
Actually I read your post last night. It was interesting however I was a bit lost and confused because there were a lot of different replies and try outs and feedback from your side.

So finally you adjusted only the vcore without touching anything else in BIOS or you had also to manually define speed, clock and other things?
Currently I want as much as little intervention in the BIOS front, just to limit if possible the vcore.
 
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Strantford

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Thank you also but the thing is how to do this exactly???
The Asus manual provided with the mobo is not very enlighting regarding this part of BIOS options. To be more specific says nothing about how to adjust the different values, or what the different option and field mean.

That is why I am confused and asked for help because I am totally new in the UEFI reality and it seems overwhelming with tons of information.

Is there an ASUS detailed manual or guide of how to adjust these things step by step?
 
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Suztera

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Essentially, click on the "Extreme Tweaker" tab, scroll down to "cpu core/cache voltage" and change it to adaptive mode.
Input your desired voltage in the turbo voltage underneath adaptive mode. Save.
Alternatively you can do it in AI suite if you click on TPU, you should be able to cpu adjust voltage.

Adaptive mode will adjust the voltage only on the turbo speeds. Offset mode will adjust the voltage for all frequency of your cpu.
The minus/positive offset is to adjust whatever voltage you inputted. Example: On adaptive mode, if you put 1.3V with an -offset voltage of 0.006, the voltage supplied would be around 1.294v for turbo speeds.
 
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Strantford

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Thanks again for your detailed step by step guidelines.I will try them when I will be in front of the pc.
One silly question though. What is the point of setting the actual vcore (through adaptive) at 1,3V and put a negative offset asking it to supply less voltage (in your example 1,294v) in turbo speed when actually the cpu is supposed to work faster (from 4ghz to 4,2)??? So normally requiring more voltage no less than the cap set in adaptive.

Wouldn't we want let's say to set the maximum vcore at any operation, at 1,3V and set an offset telling it that it ca go down until 1,294v in extreme operations (e.g. Turbo mode) so as not to be left without juice and shut down or face BSOD?
Am I understanding in a wrong way the whole adaptive voltage / offsetting logic?

Or your point is that:
(a) we set adaptive at 1,3 and adaptive affects only Turbo mode hence only 100% cpu utilization when it goes at 4,2ghz and it will be capped at 1,3v
(b) by setting a negative offset of -0,006 it will supply a maximum of 1,294v in all other operations (e.g. cpu at 4ghz) with the exception of Turbo mode which is regulated by adaptive notion

So essentially offset is a limiter on the already imposed limit of the adaptive (if it is set on a negative value)?
 
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Suztera

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The offset value affect all voltage at every frequency including the turbo voltage you inputted.
The -0.006 is an example. The minus/positive offset value can be used to fine tune your voltage.
There is also Load Line calibration that will affect your voltage as well. Most of the time, it should auto to a level that is safe. But when you start to increase the multiplier to overclock, you will need to set a defined LLC level in the future.

There a detailed guide for Kaby Lake overclocking on ASUS Z270 motherboards but it's more for Kaby Lake cpu:
http://edgeup.asus.com/2017/01/31/kaby-lake-overclocking-guide/5/
 
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Strantford

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So summarizing to see if I understood correctly:
- adaptive voltage value = puts a limit/cap on the maximum voltage during Turbo mode
- offset value = irrespective of what core voltage the cpu will ask, this voltage will be limited upwards or downwards by the offset value, positive or negative respectively, including Turbo mode operation, irrespective of adaptive voltage value setting.

In your example for simplicity:
- adaptive voltage = 1,3 => the cpu during Turbo mode ONLY will get a maximum vcore of 1,3v
- offset value = -0,006 => the capped vcore voltage for all modes will be 1,294volts including Turbo mode. Although the Turbo mode has an "adaptive voltage" of 1,3v it will not get it as Turbo mode will be also limited at 1,294.

So adaptive voltage is an additional safety over the limit defined with the offset. Under normal load (e.g. 4ghz) the cpu must not get more than 1,294v. In Turbo mode the cpu must not get more than 1,294v but there is a small breathing room up to 1,3v (adaptive voltage limit).
 
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Suztera

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Yes during turbo mode, adaptive mode +/- offset will be the voltage the cpu gets.
During idle, it reverts to stock voltage of your cpu +/- offset value.
It would aim to get 1.294v when in turbo mode.
 
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fabiodrm

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i just fixed the vcore at 1.200 and nothing more!

saw a lot of poeple doing the same and no problems after this change.
 
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Strantford

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At what clocks you are though? Stock at 4ghz/4,2 Turbo?
 
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fabiodrm

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yes, stock at 4ghz/4,2 Turbo
 
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Strantford

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Coming back

I went into Bios

First I tried setting the vcore fixed at 1,25. Upon reboot and entering Windows the vcore is at 1,248 however, even when the cpu is idling let's say at 800mhz the vcore remains stable at 1,248volts which I don't want to. I want it to automatically go down if no more power is needed. Tested both with IXTU and cpu-z. The vcore remains locked at the defined in BIOS value. So this value does not work as an upper ceiling but as a locked preset no matter how much juice is needed by cpu => not an option for me.

So I went back in Bios and have these options for Adaptive:
- Cpu Core /Cache Voltage = Adaptive
- Offset Mode Sign = - or +
- Additional Turbo Mode CPU Core Voltage = expects a value entered, now it says 0.250
- Offset Voltage = Auto

And a grey out line
-Total Adaptive Mode CPU Core Voltage = 0.250V

So the 0.250 is the offset value of I should put there 1.3? Because by "additional" I understand what more on top of the voltage the cpu will ask will be added. So if the cpu asks for 1,3 then an additional 0,25 will be added.
If this is true then were is the field to enter the value of 1,3 volts for the Adaptive voltage of Turbo Mode that Suztera mentioned in his post?
I am afraid if "Additional Turbo Mode CPU Core Voltage" is the offset value and I set 1,3 that I might do harm to the cpu because when it enters Windows it starts at max clock of 4,2ghz taking 1,34-1,36 volts currently.
 
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Suztera

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In "Additional Turbo Mode CPU Core Voltage", you type in the voltage you want i.e 1.3V
 
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Strantford

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Adjusted to Adaptive with value of 1,3volts. No offset, left it to Auto.

Boot Windows.

Stressed 5 minutes with IXTU

CPU usage=100%
vcore per IXTU = 1,225v
vcore per cpu-z = 1,152-1,184
temps= 38-50 degrees Celcious with the same fan profile as before

Stressed with P95 v2.66 for 15 minutes
CPU usage = 100%
vcore per IXTU = 1,224
vcore per cpu-z = 1,136

Temps reached 53 degrees at the end of 15minutes and were averaging at 50-51 during the test.

In comparison with before adjusting the voltage is day vs night. Before everything else the same the voltage was 1,34-1,36 and the temps in P95 were reaching 60-62 while in IXTU 55. Huge differences!!!

Two remarks
1) Isn't the voltage very low? I mean I set the Adaptive at 1,3v but in real life and cpu stressing (even for so small time period) the actual vcore was much less than 1,3 and ranged from 1,136 to 1,225 depending on the app used to measure voltages, temps and usage.
Should I increase the Adaptive to 1,32 in BIOS so as to get another 0,2 volts in "real life" windows usage?
2) I observed that while the temps per IXTU and Real temp were at 50-51 degrees during P95, the Asus Suite 3 was reporting 9-10 degrees less and as a result the automatic fan profile I had adjusted was not kicking in as I had set the intervention threshold to 45 degrees to go to 60% fan power and Ai3 was saying 40 degrees when the reality was 50. Is there a more reliable application to set automatic profiles for fans with reliable temp monitoring?
3) In HWMonitor I see that althouhg vcore is at 1,14 during stressing there are two other values IA and LLC/Ring that are at 1,331volts. Is this harmful? Is this "cancelling" the adaptive of 1,3volts? I read that loal line calibration (LLC) allows the mobo to compensate for lower than normal volts. Does that mean than in case the actual 1,14 or 1,2 volts of vcore reported by IXTU/cpu-z are not enough, the mobo will step in and deliver the difference needed and up to 1,331 volts?
 
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Suztera

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You are using Auto so the motherboard is still adjusting your voltage via offset. Since you just running at stock speeds, you don't need 1.3V so it probably gave you a negative offset.
For stock speed 6700k, you should be perfectly fine to run at 1.2V or less depending on your cpu.
With AI suite, the cpu temps are taken from a sensor on the motherboard. Realtemp uses the sensor on cpu so temperature reading should be higher.
I don't know about HWmonitor as I find it reports the wrong voltage so I don't use it.

LLC is use to combat vdroop. There a couple videos which may help explain the reason for LLC if you want to know about it:
[video="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8nFdFpuVBg"][/video]
[video="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XGhpKHWYAg"][/video]
 
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Strantford

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Thanks for your detailed explanation and the videos Suztera.

Rhetorical question, you say



If indeed the cpu does not need 1.3volts in Turbo mode and now it gives automatically a negative offset, then why before I adjust the Adaptive and everything was in Auto mode, the cpu was draining 1,34-1,38 during Turbo mode?
It doesn't make sense.

In full Auto mode it needs 1,34-1,38 volts to sustain Turbo mode at 4,2ghz and with Adaptive voltage it requires less than 1,3 and is forced automatically to use a negative offset?

The most important point though is, is 1,14 - 1,23volts (depending on the sensor/program used to read the vcore during load) adequate for the cpu or the undervoltage can create problems (long/short term) equivalent with those of overvoltage?

Can it hurt the cpu to supply less voltage than actually required (perhaps it is struggling in a way to get the additional voltage making damage???)?
 
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Suztera

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Auto would follow a set graph/algorithm setup by ASUS. That graph/algorithm has to accommodate all type of 6700k so it overestimates to make sure all 6700k will run at stock speeds regardless if your cpu can run at 1.2v at stock or not.
Ultimately it depends on your quality of your cpu, if you can run at very low voltage at stock speeds, the better chance of gaining a high overclock at a lower voltage than the rest. You would get BSOD or instability if you don't have enough voltage.
 
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Strantford

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Thanks, these are useful things to keep in mind!!!

So ultimately not enough voltate = does not damage physically the cpu like overvoltage (i.e. decreasing its life or other electromechanical failures and stressing) and can only lead to instability issues and BSOD. But if such things appear you can always increase slightly the Adaptive (let's say from 1,3v to 1,32) or go back to Full Auto or a combo of Adaptive and a low positive offset.

Correct?

And a final question, based on your experience, what is the ideal stress testing duration in hours, in order to assess if a voltage configuration is stable for a cpu (i.e. no instability, BSOD or other errors)?? After how many hours of "succesful" stress testing (= without BSOD or errors) you can deduct that the voltage is adequate for the current clock setting?
 
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Suztera

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Ideal stress test is subjective.
Some prefer 24 hours or more some are just happy with a couple hours. If your daily usage doesn't lead to BSODs or instability, it's will most likely be fine.
If you looking to be 24/7 stable, then you would test 24 hours or more.
Note passing a stress test doesn't really mean you're stable for everything, you are only stable for that stress test. Someone can easily make a stress test that crash/causes instability if they wanted to but for daily usage, it would be fine.
 
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Strantford

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Agreed and point taken. After all important is the day to day activities for which you want and use the pc and this is totally subjective per user.
In the field of stress testing software which will put the most pressure let's say to the cpu and come closer to 100%+ pressure and usage that is not even close to what a day to day activity will do?
IXTU or p95 v2.66?
Regarding the AVX set of testing (if I say this correctly) that is not resembled by IXTU and supposedly requires even more cpu usage thus more voltage and might lead to instability and BSOD, can P95 simulate this or another stress program?
I know it might not affect me in the everyday life as I don't do video, music or photo editing or staff like that but just to be on the safe side and cover as much ground as possible?

I am reading the following and it seems that IXTU after all is not such a stressful stress test :D

http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php/771292-Stress-Testing-for-Beginners-Which-tool-should-I-use

Perhaps P95 versions after 2.66 or Aida64 can really tell the "trough" regarding voltage and stability?
 
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Suztera

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I prefer to use Realbench or X264 for stability test. I would use prime 26.6 maybe for thermal testing. Realbench will test your system including your gpu and memory as well.
You can get the X264 test from here:
http://www.overclock.net/t/1570313/skylake-overclocking-guide-with-statistics
Real bench:
https://rog.asus.com/og-pro/realbench-v2-leaderboard/

If you want to be AVX stable, you would have to have higher voltage than normal and test with stress test that utilise AVX. For daily usage, you most likely don't need AVX.
 
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Strantford

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Thank you Suztera for all the support

Thanks to everyone for your posts and contributions.

I learned a lot of new, interesting and useful things to try and test.

If I want more help or have additional inquiries I will come back with a new thread or a post here if this thread does not become too old.
 
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