A couple Of new build questions

oshb5ems · Feb 16, 2017

Hello

Like I have admitted its nearly 20 years since iv built a system. Back then I used to build 1 or 2 a week. But they was Old hat and nothing like we have now days I mean they was only just starting to bring in the black 20/24 pin power plug also the CPU speed and X-times for over clocking was done pyisically on the board itself via dip switches or header pins.

So before I start I would like to ask a couple basic and most possibly stupid questions..

FIRST as the cooler is a lot larger and my hands are on the large side Is it best to build the M/B CPU and cooler up Before its installed in the case or install it in the case then build all the parts onto/into the it?

SECOND I mentioned the ATX 20/24 pin header for power but there is also the ATX-12v-2x4 as well are they both used. By that I mean do you have leads plugged into both of the sockets the 20/24 and either a single 4 or all 8 into the 12-2x4 plugs?? (Only I have 650W Thermaltake SMART DPS G Digital PSU)

THIRD Iv read lots of questions from people who have built their systems and built to the end only for it not to start. So then its strip down and start in trouble shooting mode. Again is it best to start with the minimal amount of parts to see if you can get it to post the bios and build up from there Or as others have done build it fully?,

FORTH but not really a question. So If everything should go OK and the M/C will post to the Bios screen. Which it should even if things need to be changed in the bios Like a fall back Bios that just gets u up and running? So that it wont fall over or keep rebooting or the such.
Iv already been told that I will have to make changes the XMP for my sys to rum smoothly with the ram I have which is 32Gb of HyperX Savage 4x8Gb I have which Iv been reading up on and looks as thougth the XMP is disabled at intial start up so will need changing from the 1600 and 1.55v to 2400and 1.6v of my ram. So I think from what iv read thats what I have to change in the Advanced Memory Systems.

There seams so much that you can alter in the bios now unlike back then when you possibly has around 20 items you could alter But now Its just the getting back into working around the new systems and finding out what they do or can do LOL.

Thank you in advance But please dont take the fun out of a OLD guy please LOL

Regards OS

13thmonkey · Feb 16, 2017

1 - build outside
2 - all power must be plugged in, typically 24 + 4 or 8
3 - breadboard it, build it and test it outside of the case, momentarily shorting the power switch pins on the mobo will start it up
4 - bios should just work, it'll be auto-everything by default, just select the appropriate boot drive

ubercake · Feb 16, 2017

I've been through a few decades of builds myself.

First, get a case with a backplate cutout so you can easily swap out coolers. This is a matter of preference for most people, but since especially the larger CPU coolers can obstruct the PC building process somewhat, I just mount the cooler once the motherboard is mounted and the processor and RAM are in place and most of the build is put together.

Second, you plug the 4/8 in according to your motherboards connectors. If it has 4, you use 4; 8 use 8. And you plug this in in addition to the 20/24 connector.

Third, I like to use Asus boards because the mid to higher end have a BIOS flashback utility by which you can upgrade the BIOS (now called UEFI) with a thumb drive by only having the 20/24 connector from the power supply plugged into the motherboard and the thumb drive plugged into the BIOS-flashback-assigned USB port on the motherboard's back panel. This way, you can get rid of most hardware incompatibilities before you begin the rest of the build. This doesn't guarantee you won't have a DOA part, but can minimize the issues you may have.

Fourth, see my comments in step 3. Update the BIOS first if possible. I'm not sure I would use such high voltage RAM with most newer processors. Many DDR kits require only 1.2V these days. What kind of RAM is that which you intend to use requiring 1.6V?

One thing you'll notice with newer boards is most no longer have dip switches and all changes are made within the BIOS/UEFI. Also, most times you don't have to change much in the BIOS other than disk modes (from IDE/Legacy to AHCI or RAID accordingly) and the XMP memory detection unless you are looking to overclock.

mcnumpty23 · Feb 16, 2017

plenty of us old timers in here who remember dip switches lol

and as said that ram voltage seems wrong it only takes 1.35v for 3000mhz ram now adays

perhaps you should list the full specs of what you are going to build

and yes bios/uefi is more complex but if wanting to tinker with it most boards allow you to save a bios profile so you can revert back to it if needed or even have 2 bios chips--something i think first saw from gigabyte many years ago

and you can use the mouse now in bios/uefi as well

geofelt · Feb 16, 2017

First...
Install your cooler while the motherboard is outside of the case.
You will likely need to install your ram first.

second...
The aux cpu 4 or 8 pin connector is needed to power pcie slots and extra power for overclocking.
With integrated graphics and no overclocking, it may not be necessary, but if you have the leads plug them in.

third...
For that exact reason, I test outside the case first.

4th.
On ram, all ram will boot at the default speed.
Once you are in the bios, you can select a xmp profile which will overclock the ram to higher speeds.
Your post indicates older ddr3 ram which runs at stock 1.5v.
If you are doing a new build, likely, you want ddr4 ram which runs stock at 1.2v
Kaby lake runs dual channel only, so 32gb is better accomplished with a 2 x 16gb kit.
and... fast ram may not be worth it.
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1478-page1.html

What will this build be used for?
Post your prospective build.

MY build process:

Before anything, while waiting for your parts to be delivered, download
and read, cover to cover your case and motherboard manual.
Buy a #2 magnetic tip phillips screwdriver.

1. I assemble all the parts outside of the case.
That lets me test them for functuonality easily.
A wood table or cardboard is fine.
2. Plug in only the necessary parts at first. Ram, cpu, cooler, psu.
Do not force anything. Parts fit only one way.
Attach a monitor to the integrated motherboard adapter.
3. If your motherboard does not have a PWR button, momentarily touch the two pwr front panel pins
4. Repeatedly hit F2 or DEL, and that should get you into the bios display.
5. Boot from a cd or usb stick with memtest86+ on it. memtest will exercise your ram and cpu functionality.
6. Install windows.
7. Install the motherboard cd drivers. Particularly the lan drivers so you can access the internet.
Do not select the easy install option, or you will get a bunch of utilities and trialware that you don't want. Drivers only.
7. Connect to the internet and install an antivirus program. Microsoft security essentials is free, easy, and unobtrusive.
8. Install your graphics card and driver.
You will need to remove the graphics card later to install your motherboard in the case.
Make a note of how the graphics card latches into the pcie slot.

9. Update windows to currency.
10. Only now do I take apart what I need to and install it in the case.
11. Now is the time to reinstall your graphics card.

oshb5ems · Feb 16, 2017

ubercake :

Hello
Its this Ram.
HyperX Savage 32 GB (4 x 8 GB) 2400 MHz DDR3 CL11 DIMM XMP Memory Module - Red

Thanks..

oshb5ems · Feb 16, 2017

Hi To just clarify im doing older build for my first build simply because I landed very cheap i5-4690K I had been looking for a while for a chip and this one came up so I snapped it up.. And it can be Overclocked if needs be and from the reading it looks like it is pretty stable at the high over clocked speeds.
So I got to thinking that it might help me back into the building and clocking for not to much lay out..
I had already got a GTX 970 GPU infact I have had it quite a few months has I had intended on building something early last year but it never happend. Then a mate who does testing and stuff for amazon had won the Thermaltake 650 Smart PSU so I got that for half price.
And then the Ram It has been my biggest outlay but for £110 for 32Gb I dont think I can complain Its still for sale at just under £280 and thats the cheapest iv seen. I might have gone the half hat way of getting bits but for the first build after all this time I thought Id just run with it..

Then the ancillaries where all new like the cooler, Hard Drive, SSD and CD/DVD as well as all cables and xase of course.
The final peice was going to be the Mother board. I had plumped for the Asrock Fatality Killer But when I can to order it it was out of stock and not going to back in till after the weekend So rather than wait I bought a cheaper board. The Gigabyte GA-Z97P-D3.

Now everything is here Im not sure if iv done things right. Originally I wanted a Cube case but then started to worry about cooling so went Midi ATX for both case and M/B Now the case is here I dont like it I wish I had gone for the MATX M/B and a Cube case.. Is anyone on here running that sort of set up and if so is the cooling OK?

Thanks OS

mcnumpty23 · Feb 16, 2017

sounds like you will end up with a quite decent build for a reasonable amount of money

and that probably explains the high ram voltage since its an older platform--though still quite capable

sorry never tried matx so cant help on that bit

oshb5ems · Feb 16, 2017

Thats what |I was hoping for. And especially when I read about the CPU I had dropped on and its abillity to overclock.
As it looks as though it might go quite high. That said its got a fare old Benchmark as standard according to the Passmark site. At 7.7k but they have had it stable to over 10k which I think is prtty great for a old chip?.

LOL OS

mcnumpty23 · Feb 16, 2017

oshb5ems :

yes its still a great cpu --to be honest cpus havent moved on much for around the last 6 years or so unlike graphics cards,ram and solid state/ssds/m2 hard drives have

even a 6 year old 2500k/2600k especially overclocked can still hold its own today

geofelt · Feb 16, 2017

What case do you have?
Most all will work fine.
If a case has two 120mm front intakes or better, you will have adequate cooling.
If all the intake is from one source and filtered, your parts will stay cleaner.

oshb5ems · Feb 18, 2017

geofelt :

I bought this one in the end after looking through loads..

Air flow
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51LMVsFAzEL.jpg
And finaly the top switches and such
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/611c2vjTfIL._SL1200_.jpg

Regards OS

geofelt · Feb 18, 2017

I see the picture, but I do not recognize the make/model of the case.

It appears to have only one front intake fan, and I do not know if it is 120mm, 140,, or larger.
It looks like it could be 180mm which is great.
If it is a single intake fan of 140mm or larger, you are ok.
If it is only a single 120mm fan, you should consider replacing it with a higher rpm version to provide adequate cooling intake for your cpu and gpu.

The exit fans are not important. What comes in the front will exit somewhere, taking the cpu and gpu heat with it.

If you scored a I5-4690K great.
The benefit from 6 and7 gen is only marginal; particularly if you will overclock a bit as the "K" was intended to do.
You will need a Z motherboard for that.

oshb5ems · Feb 19, 2017

Yes im afraid it is only a single 120mm intake I was also unsure if fitting a filter it would also cut the unput of outside air intake down. That said I also got a set or 4 extra ball raced fan units.

Im not sure if you have seen the air flow of the case which is here

Id thought with buying the extra fans I could always chang the air flow of the case by changing direction of certain fan units and having them suck rather than blow. But since the parcel came that contained the case Iv not even opened it simply because it seemed very large and heavy. Yes the sizemight be packing but the packing material dont make the weight up now does it. Hence my unopening it and turning back to the pages of amazon, Ebuyer, Overclockers and the such to try and find one that I think would do the job. Like I said I wouldhave liked to originally build this all into a M-ATX case but got worried about cooling as I had thought that I will be overclocking the K CPU in the end. So thats why I went with the larger M/B and case. That all said the reason I bought the cheaper Z07 M/B was with the whole ATX for M-ATX change. I have just found a nice case of M-ATX design and has A large 200mm fan preinstalled in the front, along with two optional 80mm turbo fans at the rear,As shown here

But the PSU part of the cse is fully compartmentalised and seperate from the m/b CPU area. The case also has the abillity to fit a DIY liquid cooling systen. that said iv always been of the old brigade in that water and electics do not mix and till a liquid is available that does not short anything should it leak air cooling is fine

Also the M/B is mounted horizontal in the case so heavy CPU cooling fin structurs wont be hanging off the board just sat on it. Which is good
To me the only negative part of this case is that it does not have a externam 5 1/4 bayfor a CD/DVD or anything else that I might want to fit such as a temp and fan controller or media reading bay for other types of memory card?. But when all said and done I think the advantages of a case like this far outweigh that one negative dont you? (Weight, Size, M/B orientaion and Air flow) Whats your opinion please?
I know it would cost me £6 to send it back and then it is a extra £6 for the case So a overall £12 for the case. But then I have to sort out the M/B I have only looked at the manual and not even opened the anti static bag as yet so can also return if need be Its just should I? I think I will have a look for a MATX M/B to see whats available for next day delivery and see where that takes me..

mcnumpty23 · Feb 19, 2017

can always get an external cd/dvd though just about everything now can be done off a flash drive i havent used a cd/dvd in years

fans can be controlled using the bios or software

temperatures like wise can be read with software

memory cards i have a usb adapter/holder for they just slot in that and plug in a usb port when needed

mcnumpty23 · Feb 19, 2017

oh and in theory water doesnt conduct electricity far as i remember from school science (very long time ago)

its the ion impurities in it that conduct

so 100% deionised water should in theory not conduct electricity

though you have to believe the manufacturers claim that it is totally ion free lol

oshb5ems · Feb 19, 2017

Yeah I still would not trust any water and electrical components that are having electricity (no mattter how low the voltage) surging through their etched copper or silver tracks..

On that NOTE Iv Just dropped on a ASRock Fatal1ty Killer Mobo Normal price should be £124 and it came from the Amazon Warehouse deals for £80 Just the packaging a bit ripped.. And with all the same warranty as the ful price M/B.. You know iv had some right good deals from the deals beforeand over the years... And its Comong tomorrow to boot with Prime delivery...

Regs OS

mcnumpty23 · Feb 19, 2017

oshb5ems :

nice saving on that yes i like to look through the clearance sections can some times pick up a really good bargain

i just got my enthoo luxe case for £90 instead of £149 was expecting scratches or something especially as its white painted

but no it was immaculate so was well pleased

and my last board was asrock z170 great board though their software is lacking compared to asus,gigabyte etc but couldnt fault the hardware side from asrock at all

oshb5ems · Feb 20, 2017

Hi
Yes this ASRock was paked as new and the box manual and everything all seamed new. Im sat here now running the memtest Its been running for the last hour and 10 mins so I think its going to be fine. I will have to have a look and read about the ram I have its 2400 and the board is set to auto and so reading it as 1600 Im not sure what and where to change it yet to sort ot the freq and the speed its running at but will sort it.. This ASRock board is a lot nicer board than the gigabyte I did have. (Must send that back now) Just need to sort out a copy of windows. I have downloaded the one from a link on here. That all seams legit. Iv not got the link off hand I will find it. But im not sure what way im going to go yet as there are so meny selling the OEM codes even large game shops and even software geeks selling official licences for £30 Or just say $%&* and go and get a new retail copy. I dont know Iv not decided.. We will work that out tomorrow LOL

Talking about Warehouse deals I got the i5 latop im on noww from there it was a 8gb V4 Acer i5 CPU But although it was perfect looking I think it was one of those pig in a poke sort of laptops you knoe the sort where one is a bad one every hundred 1ooo or so Well this is one of those It spent 4 times at repair in the first year 3 in the months after which they kindly did out of the goodness of their hearts I mean it takes 27hours to do a reinstale It take 6 hours to do a turnback time to say a few days ago. Its now prone to having the fan rinning all the time the laptop is on. and now the thing is bending because all thescrews keep coming loose in the bottom halves Yes 3 years of hellish mud But it keeps ploding.. Id love to have a full diagnostik done on it to find out why it takes 27 hours to do the reinstale or 6 to do a roleback. As for the fan Inoticedthat the last time it came back from the repairers so they might have disloged the heatsink on the cpu I will get round to opening it up once I get the new one up and running.. I suppose I could get some s/w to check the temps and such but hey.. LOL

Anyway thanks for all the input and help getting aold timer up to speed Its nice to be back building. I just need to get the other bits and case sorted and put it allin now.. Will keep you updated on the progress..

Thanks OS

mcnumpty23 · Feb 21, 2017

you are welcome

in the bios there should be a memory setting that says xmp--that will automatically load the ccorrect timings/speed for the ram

and comes up on here all the time

any where selling windows keys too cheap is dodgy

might work in the beginning but who knows how long for

oshb5ems · Feb 21, 2017

Iv seen this site mentioned on here
https://uniqsoftware.co/en/windows/pcs/windows-10

And the media creation Tool as well?

Would you try all the ancilleries such as HD/ SSD and GPU while its out on the bench or now its up n running put it in the case?

Thanks OS

mcnumpty23 · Feb 21, 2017

not seen that one its usually G2A

but same thing if its too cheap then i would avoid it

yes the price of windows is a bit painful but not as expensive as the hardware and people dont buy the pc components off the back of a lorry

which is basically the same as buying a cheap key from these sites some times the keys are genuine but have been bought in bulk with stolen/cloned credit cards so its still criminal

i would test the gpu hard drives/ssds should be fine but getting no display is the worst case scenario so testing the gpu out the case is a good idea

oshb5ems · Feb 22, 2017

Hi

Not sure what you meant by G2A.? Its just some of the ads look so legit and come from large company's But like everything and as you say is it looks to good to be true it most probably is

With regards to t GPU Dont you have to have a O/S installed and up and running before testing it to enable driver add?

Regards OS

13thmonkey · Feb 22, 2017

Avoid anything that is 'too cheap' from an OS point of view, it's all grey market and you might find the key stopped at any point in time.

mcnumpty23 · Feb 22, 2017

oshb5ems :

G2A is one of the bigger sites selling keys for windows,games etc

yes you need os for driver installation but its just nice while you are breadboarding it any way to make sure you get a display--though if have integrated graphics on the cpu that would also do the job

2 most frustrating things when building

doesnt even turn on

turns on but no display

so knowing you could get a display while out of the case is always useful

A couple Of new build questions

Commendable

Titan

Splendid

Polypheme

Titan

Commendable

Commendable

Polypheme

Commendable

Polypheme

Titan

Commendable

Titan

Commendable

Polypheme

Polypheme

Commendable

Polypheme

Commendable

Polypheme

Commendable

Polypheme

Commendable

Titan

Polypheme

Share this page