What are the biggest bottlenecks in the search for 4k 60fps gaming?

92hatchattack

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I think the thread tittle explains itself. What is the most important aspect of being able to run games at 4k 60fps?

Now of course I'm going to assume that the GPU is the biggest factor here. But what I am trying to find out is if other components in a build will hold back the system. Is an i7-7700k with 16 ram enough on that end? Is the solution to just throw as much gpu into the mix as possible?

Obviously I'm new to all this but I am just looking for other things to look out for besides my GPU.

Thank you!
 
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Math Geek

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like any other scenario, this will be game dependent. but overall, the gpu is the main bottleneck. tom's did a review not too long ago and at 4k a dual core pentium gave the same fps as an i7 at 4k!! pretty well shows what the biggest issue is. obviously this is the not the best way to do it and a solid cpu is also needed, but the main problem is the gpu. just about any cpu can feed it fast enough to keep it very bust trying to pump out 4k frames.

think the only way i have seen it possible was with more than one high end gpu. at least 2 1080's. a single pascal titan x was not enough for every game to hit this goal either. well with max settings anyway, you can lower settings and hit this number with a single 1080, but most folks seem to be fixated on max settings as if it is not worth playing without it.
 
Hi,
1) It very rarely makes sense to game at 4K anyway. You can run most games at 2560x1440 and have it scaled to 4K on the monitor with similar visual fidelity to native 4K.

2) GPU. Yes, this is usually the limiting factor, and unfortunately that may mean buying TWO top-end cards (like 2x GTX1080 in SLI). However, not all games support this and when they do there may be stuttering introduced.

*So unfortunately, there are people with two high-end graphics cards that have a LESS enjoyable experience in some games because they got the second card. They got an arguably nearly IDENTICAL visual experience in terms of the quality of each frame but again stuttering (game not smooth).

DX12 and Vulkan games will eventually use multiple GPU's properly (to both work on the same frame, not one per frame), however that probably won't start being common for at least two years. That needs to be baked into the game engine but it's a difficult problem especially whilst maintaining backwards compatibility with DX11. So I recommend a SINGLE GRAPHICS CARD.

3) 4K HDTV and 4K monitor is not the same BTW.
AFAIK with an HDTV you can't choose a resolution like 2560x1440. So you're forced to run at 1080p or 4K. That almost always will be 1080p as game smoothness is more important. Plus, if you aren't sitting really close the game might not even benefit from 4K resolution.

4) TWEAKING the game settings goes a long way too. Often there are settings which are really taxing that don't add a great deal visually. You have to experiment.

You should learn how to use Adaptive VSYNC as well. It turns VSYNC ON and OFF automatically. On 60Hz monitor aim for minimal (i.e. 5% of time) drops below 60FPS. When it does drop you get some screen tearing but not added STUTTER due to the sync mismatch by having VSYNC ON but not being able to keep up.

5) GSYNC - for desktop monitors, GSYNC is a bit expensive but also provides a smooth experience. The monitor only draws a new frame when the GPU sends it one rather than updating at exact intervals (i.e. 60x per second). This new, asynchronous method prevents screen tearing, reduces lag and prevents stuttering (VSYNC type of stuttering at least).

Example monitor: GSYNC, 144Hz, 27", IPS ($800USD?)

For a shooter I might aim for about 100FPS average. Some games need a 60FPS cap.

A good example of a PC for that would be:

i7-7700K (or RYZEN 4C/8T CPU)
16GB (2x8GB) 2666MHz DDR4
GTX1080 (or similar AMD Vega GPU later)
etc.
 
It depends on the game.
With a GTX980ti, I generally run at 60 fps on civ 4/5, skyrim and flight simulator on a 4k monitor.
CPU is I5-6600K@4.8 which is almost as good as it gets.

Fast action games may not fare as well.

My motivation for 4k was a 40" monitor which is very immersive.

My suggestion is to buy your 4k monitor first and then see how you do in the games you play.



 

92hatchattack

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As Far as what I personally want..... My ideal gaming setup is one where I can enjoy RPG type games in 4k while sitting on the couch with a 4k 65" TV. Obviously though I think I would buy a second 1440p monitor for use with twitchy shooters.

I mean, SLI 1080 is a pretty expensive setup. But it wouldn't be out of the question to start with a single 1080, and purchase another one a few month down the road. I'm just feeling things out at the moment. I am not in the market for actually buying a gpu for at least another 6 months So i will see what prices do and what comes to the market in that time frame. I have seen some videos of sli 1080 doing very well, but again,I understand this varies by game.

Thank you all for your responses!
 

Druidsmark

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Hello, I just wanted to mention that

3) 4K HDTV and 4K monitor is not the same BTW.
AFAIK with an HDTV you can't choose a resolution like 2560x1440. So you're forced to run at 1080p or 4K. That almost always will be 1080p as game smoothness is more important. Plus, if you aren't sitting really close the game might not even benefit from 4K resolution.

actually depends on the hdtv you own as I own a Samsung 1080p tv. When I hook it up to my laptop I am actually able to choose multiple resolutions besides 1080p and 720p on my Samsung tv just like computer monitors.
 

92hatchattack

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From what I understand yes, you can choose to output at any resolution, but 4k tv's do not scale well at 1440p
 


Yes, assuming the GTX1080 cards are not overclocked power hogs requiring 2 8 pin pcie power.
http://www.realhardtechx.com/index_archivos/Page362.htm

And... quality counts.
Buy only tier 1 or 2 from a list such as this:
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/id-2547993/psu-tier-list.html

I have no problem overprovisioning a PSU a bit. Say 20%.
It will run cooler, quieter, and more efficiently in the middle third of it's range.
A PSU will only use the wattage demanded of it, regardless of it's max capability.
 

Math Geek

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even the 2 x 8-pin models only hit about 250w under gaming load. 275w or so on torture load but we know that's higher than real world will get to.

assuming it is quality psu, i'd have no concerns with 850w for 2 1080's. especially with the lower powered cpu's we got now.
 

Jarmund

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Actually i don't think you need that much wattage... a 750w psu will do the job just fine for less money. Here's my recommendation:
https://pcpartpicker.com/product/dMM323/evga-supernova-g3-750w-80-gold-certified-fully-modular-atx-power-supply-220-g3-0750

here's a review from the reputable jonnyguru: http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story&reid=500

 

92hatchattack

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So would this be of suitable quality then?

https://www.amazon.com/Corsair-RM850x-Modular-Supply-Certified/dp/B015YEI8JG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1487308979&sr=8-1&keywords=corsair+850

 

Jarmund

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corsair's RM series are really not that high on quality. don't get me wrong they're good but not that good at it's current price. did you take a look at the psu i suggested? well if you are not happy with 750w here is the 850w version. top quality psu for just like $10 more than the corsair one
 

Jarmund

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Regarding your question: save money and get a k series i5 (ex: i5-7600k) by no way this cpu will bottleneck your gpu and it will give you same performance as an i7. games only care about cores, PHYSICAL cores not virtual ones so loosing hyperthreading doesn't matter when it comes to gaming.

gtx 1080 in sli will certainly give you the glory of 4k 60fps but mind the problems that may arise in multi gpu config.
 

92hatchattack

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Yes I checked it out. I was just throwing out another option that looked comparable. By sight I'm not sure how to tell a quality psu from a crappy one. Haha. So, while a 750w psu may be enough to handle sli 1080 is there not an advantage in going with 850w so the psu is running at a lower % of its capicity? I mean at a point of it being only like an extra $20 would it not be worth it?

Thank you very much for your help

 


 

Jarmund

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watch this video good 'ol linus from linustechtips explains all the basics on how to choose the right power supply for your pc :)

To distinguish a crappy psu from a good quality psu requires a bit of knowing stuff...

First, if you choose a psu from a reputable brand make sure to know who actually manufactures the psu as most brands (not all) don't make their own power supplies as other companies like Seasonic act as an OEM (original equipment manufacturer) to make the psu and rebrand it with the brand that pays for them to manufacture it. Some well respected brands sometimes go to a crappy OEM to save costs and sell it like it was state of the art psu (yes sometimes can happen)

Example: The OEM of Corsair's RM850x is Channell Well Technology (those guys are ok IMO)

Second, the efficiency rating (80+ 80+ gold, platinum etc) MAY reflect the quality of the psu but it is not an indicative of it as this rating only tells you how efficient the psu is.Some crappy potato battery like psu's can have gold efficiency rating

Also check if the psu has japanese solid-state capacitors. these things in the psu regulate the flow of energy and the jap ones are top notch you don't want cheap chinese liquid capacitors as they are unreliable and can leak.

that's pretty much the basics... i personally don't choose any psu if its not from Seasonic or EVGA as their psu's come with a good warranty and they are very reliable. (except when doing SFX build then you go to corsair's SF series they good :D)




 
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