Build Recommendation - Solid works/fusion 360, Adobe Suite & Gaming

CyberPunkX

Prominent
Mar 5, 2017
6
0
510
Hello,
I'm looking to build a pc. Its been a long time since I used one and I have never built one. My 2011 MBP just died this past week and I cant afford to get a new at the moment. I'm open to running windows or build a pc capable of running OSX with a windows parallel.

I'm a industrial designer so I will need something capable of running solid works and/or Fusion 360, the Adobe Suite (primarily photoshop, illustrator, & Indesign, periodically Premiere Pro & AE). I don't do much rendering but it would be a plus to have something capable of running v-ray. I generally have multiple (2-5) programs open and switch between them as I do edits in my work flow.

As for the gaming I occasionally run WOW, SC II, DOTAII and I would like to be able to set these to high or ultra settings for once in my life lol.

Approximate Purchase Date: this week (making use of the hardware sales listed on this website if possible, not necessary but desirable)

Budget Range: $1,000.00 - $1,500.00 including shipping & tax.

System Usage from Most to Least Important: Running Solid Works, Fusion 360, Adobe Suite, Gaming (WOW, Dota II, SC II, CIV and other games I've never dreamed of because I could never play them with my system :)

Are you buying a monitor: Yes but not include in build price

Parts to Upgrade: I have a Samsung SSD 850 PRO 256GB model:MZ-7KE256 and other SATA HDs I can repurpose. I'm open to purchasing new HDs if these are hard to repurpose.

Do you need to buy OS: Yes, not included in build price.

Preferred Website(s) for Parts: I'm in Canada, so Canadian retailers unless there is something substantially cheaper I can only get from a US retailer. If that's the case I could have it shipped to the border.

Location: Vancouver, Canada

Parts Preferences: no preference for brands or parts, having the ability to upgrade in the future is something I would like.

Overclocking: no idea, not sure what this is.

SLI or Crossfire: no idea, not sure what this is.

Your Monitor Resolution: open to recommendations for my purposes, I would assume something that has a high CRI and refresh rate.

Additional Comments: doesn't not need to be flashy or aesthetically pleasing primarily focused on performance. If can be both aesthetic and performance oriented than that's a plus.

And Most Importantly, Why Are You Upgrading: my Apple 2011 MBP just died.


Thanks again,
I look forward to see what you suggest.

X
 
Solution
Also, I would suggest this double-edged sword. Simplest way to get both supported acceleration and gaming on this build.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: AMD RYZEN 7 1700 3.0GHz 8-Core Processor ($326.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Motherboard: Asus PRIME X370-PRO ATX AM4 Motherboard ($159.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws V Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR4-3000 Memory ($189.97 @ Jet)
Storage: SK hynix SL308 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($88.89 @ OutletPC)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($49.33 @ OutletPC)
Video Card: AMD Radeon Pro WX 5100 8GB Video Card ($369.99 @ B&H)...

FD2Raptor

Admirable
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: AMD RYZEN 7 1700 3.0GHz 8-Core Processor ($427.05 @ shopRBC)
Motherboard: Asus PRIME X370-PRO ATX AM4 Motherboard ($219.75 @ Vuugo)
Memory: Kingston FURY 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-2400 Memory ($185.00 @ shopRBC)
Video Card: Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1060 6GB 6GB WINDFORCE OC 6G Video Card ($336.94 @ Vuugo)
Case: Phanteks Enthoo Pro M Acrylic ATX Mid Tower Case ($108.77 @ DirectCanada)
Power Supply: EVGA 750W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($89.98 @ DirectCanada)
Case Fan: Phanteks PH-F140SP_BK 82.1 CFM 140mm Fan ($21.99 @ Amazon Canada)
Total: $1389.48
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-03-05 06:44 EST-0500

The X370 MB will be available in the coming days.
This specifics Kingston HyperX model is picked from ASUS QVL listing for the MB that has tested for all four DIMMs slot usage; i.e. there should be no issue if/when you add another pair to upgrade to 32GB.

The Phanteks ProM Acrylic has the stylish design that will not make you miss your MBP.
This system doesn't need the wattage of the EVGA B2 750W, but the ProM has a cutout on its PSU cover to showoff your PSU, and any PSU shorter than 160mm will not look good in it (the PSU end of the cables will show).

HDD&SSD can be reuse, but noted that the ProM only come with two 3.5" bay + one 2.5" bay.
Extras can be purchased from Amazon: SSD (7.83 CAD + Shipping, up to 3 max) or HDD (9.99CAD + Shipping, up to 8 max).

The extra 140mm intake fan can be left out if taxes/shipping get too high.

And with the GTX 1060 you'll get your 1080p@Ultra.

Ryzen is already competitive with Intel for all the above mentioned workstation applications, and with further optimization coming, it's well positioned to get ahead of Intel solutions.
 

CyberPunkX

Prominent
Mar 5, 2017
6
0
510
FD2Raptor thank you for the quick reply. I've did some research as well and stumbled upon the Ryzen chips, they look very promising. For a minute there I was even considering a hackintosh but the hardware options are much more limited and it seems that for the price a windows pc is much more powerful.

I've gone through the parts you've recommend and they all seem to be well regard at their price points. I have a few questions if you wouldn't mind clarifying a few things for me, as I'm very new to this. Excuse my newbness if any of this seems very apparent.

Would it be worth while to get the Ryzen 1700x? Will that extra 0.4 base clock rate benefit me over the 1700? From the reading I've done gaming/CAD in particular benefit from higher clock speeds while multitasking and some rendering/editing does better with more cores/threads.

Do I need to worry about the GPU you selected being bottled necked? or will the CPU bottle neck the GPU?

If in the future if I so desire does the MB you selected capable of running 2 GPUs? and if so would I need to upgrade the PSU?

The extra fan you suggested is optional because from what I gather the Ryzen CPU's all come with fans, is that correct?

Could you unpack this "This specifics Kingston HyperX model is picked from ASUS QVL listing for the MB that has tested for all four DIMMs slot usage; i.e. there should be no issue if/when you add another pair to upgrade to 32GB." Does this mean I can upgrade up to 32GB with out bottle necking/causing errors?

Thanks,
X
 

FD2Raptor

Admirable


It's up to you to decide basically. All 8c/16t Ryzen so far can be overclocked to ~3.8Ghz on most X370 boards and ~4Ghz when paired with top-tier MB with strong power delivery system; most consumer cooling solution can't get the chip to go beyond that barrier.

You can chose to equip the 1700 with an aftermarket cooler and OC your way there or buy the 1700x and be required to buy additional aftermarket cooler because the X version doesn't come with one. Since Ryzen is just released, some aftermarket coolers aren't yet AM4 compatible, so a 1700x config may either cost a lot more than the 1700 than you'd expect or you'd have to wait quite a bit/contact the cooler mfg to get the AM4 compatible kit.



Most games aren't that built to fully utilize the 16 threads of Ryzen and will respond better to pure clock speed. For this reason, a good number of games initially will cause Ryzen to perform just about on par with a higher clocked i5 (but obviously a 4c/4t i5 would do the professional workload horribly compare to Ryzen).

With some investment in OCing, a 3.8-4Ghz Ryzen can feed any GPU on the market.
But even as is, the 1700 will not bottleneck a GTX 1060.




A MB with the X370 chipset when paired with Ryzen CPU can support CFX as well as SLI. But for nVidia, SLI is only supported on GTX 1070 or higher. The B2 750W can support two GTX 1070 (~200W each average, with spikes into the ~250W vicinity) but two GTX 1080 will be a bit of a stretch (~240-270W avg depends on manufacturer, spikes add another 20-30% power draw). Current gen AMD : RX 480 ~180W each with spikes 30-40% increase, while their last gen Fury (which is still currently AMD top performing card until they release their next gen Vega cards) ~250W with spikes into the 300W+ range.

If you want a two cards configuration in the future, then a RX 480 8GB (4GB have better price-to-performance as a single card config; for CFX, you'd want the 8GB ver) like the MSI RX 480 ARMOR 8G OC will be the better pick compare to a GTX 1060.



The extra fan is a case fan, not a CPU cooler. It's there because the Phanteks ProM Acrylic comes with two 140mm fan, one for intake one for exhaust. The one additional 140mm would be mount at the front so that there would be two 140mm intake fans and resulting in what's known as "positive air pressure" inside the case, i.e. there would be an airflow going out of the case through all the other holes and crevices of the case so long that the system is running. This would greatly limit the amount of dust able to get into the PC, maintaining the effectiveness of the CPU/GPU fans which, in turn, mean a longer lasting PC.

Ryzen 1700 come with the AMD Wraith Spire cooler. The X versions don't come with an AMD cooler, at least for the current package which I'll admit that it may vary with regions/retailers.



This is the Kingston kit with the serial: HX424C15FBK2/16 that has been tested by ASUS, and verified that it worked both as a two DIMMs config (2x8GB) as well as in four DIMMs config (two 2x8GB kits).

There is a cheaper kit but with a different serial HX424C15FB2K2/16 which, at the time, has not been verified; which mean while it may be usable as a 2x8GB kit, it may not work in a 4x8GB config.

With Ryzen being very particular about memory, picking a non-QVL listed RAM is not recommended at this point.
 


CyberPunkX,

This is a somewhat difficult equation, given that the most demanding program listed, Solidworks, will run very poorly on a gaming video card, meaning a Quadro is a given, which will not be ideal for gaming. Also, SW rendering is CPU-based and is one of the few that can benefit from as many CPU cores as possible- a 6-core with a strong single-thread performance is the best compromise. But if rendering is not a priority, it's preferable to concentrate on a better single-thread performance.

In this budget, I'd say, start with the best single-thread performing CPU in the World:

2D / 3D CAD / Graphic Design Workstation_ALT: Gamer / Video Processing_ Intel Core i7 -7th Series Platform_C$_3.6.17

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i7-7700K 4.2GHz Quad-Core Processor ($458.61 @ Vuugo)
CPU Cooler: SilenX EFZ-92HA3 48.0 CFM Fluid Dynamic Bearing CPU Cooler ($33.99 @ Amazon Canada)
Motherboard: Asus PRIME Z270-P ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($170.14 @ shopRBC)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-2400 Memory ($133.89 @ Amazon Canada)
Graphics Card: Quadro P2000 5GB -160 bit workstation card > To be released soon for about C$500
Drive 1: OS/Programs > Reused > $0
Drive 2: Storage > Reused > $0
Case: Thermaltake Suppressor F31 ATX Mid Tower Case ($104.99 @ Memory Express)
Power Supply: SeaSonic G 550W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($89.98 @ NCIX)
__________________________________________________________________
Total: about $1,491.60

Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-03-06 08:41 EST-0500

The i7-7700K 4-core @ 4.2 /4.5GHz has the highest single- thread rating of any 4-core CPU- 2596 in Passmark. If you visit the Solidwaorks forums, this is the CPU of the moment.

There is 16GB of RAM using two of the four slots so as to be able to add another 16GB later. I use two systems and last week the 32GB system ran out of RAM- it needed 38GB, so I had to redo the work on the 64GB system. Lucky that was handy,..

The Quadro P2000 5GB GPU should be avaiable very shortly and the performance is tested at levels above the Quadro M4000 8GB, which has a Passmark average 3D score of 6,665 and may be in the 7,000+ range. For comparison, the GTX 770 is rated at 6,113, so gaming on the P2000 should not be too painful.

For a workstation and gaming system alike, a quiet system is important, so the Thermaltake Surpressor series is a good approach.

Cheers,

BambiBoom

CAD / 3D Modeling / Graphic Design:

HP z420 (2015) (Rev 3) > Xeon E5-1660 v2 (6-core @ 3.7 / 4.0GHz) / 32GB DDR3 -1866 ECC RAM / Quadro K4200 (4GB) / Samsung SM951 M.2 256GB AHCI + Intel 730 480GB (9SSDSC2BP480G4R5) + Western Digital Black WD1003FZEX 1TB> M-Audio 192 sound card + Logitech z2300 2.1 speakers > 600W PSU> > Windows 7 Professional 64-bit >> 2X Dell Ultrasharp U2715H (2560 X 1440)
[ Passmark Rating = 5581 > CPU= 14046 / 2D= 838 / 3D= 4694 / Mem= 2777 / Disk= 11559] [6.12.16]
[Cinebench R15 > CPU = 1031cb / Single Core = 142 cb / OpenGL= 127.39 fps / MP Ratio = 7.24x] 3.2.17

Analysis / Simulation / Rendering:

HP z620 (2012) (Rev 3) 2X Xeon E5-2690 (8-core @ 2.9 / 3.8GHz) / 64GB DDR3-1600 ECC reg) / Quadro K2200 (4GB) + Tesla M2090 (6GB) / HP Z Turbo Drive (256GB) + Samsung 850 Evo 250GB + Seagate Constellation ES.3 (1TB) / Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium PCIe sound card + Logitech z313 2.1 speakers / 800W / Windows 7 Professional 64-bit > > HP 2711x (27" 1980 X 1080)
[ Passmark System Rating= 5675 / CPU= 22625 / 2D= 815 / 3D = 3580 / Mem = 2522 / Disk = 12640 ] 9.25.16
[ Cinebench R15: CPU = 2209 cb / Single core 130 cb / OpenGL= 119.23 fps / MP Ratio 16.84x] 10.31.16
 

CyberPunkX

Prominent
Mar 5, 2017
6
0
510
Thank you for clarifying those points, I have yet more questions.
Will the 65Watts make the 1700 less capable then the 1700x and 1800 that have 95W, or does it seemly mean that it is more energy efficient while achieving the same clock speed with less power? will I benefit from the XF that the 1700x has over the 1700? not sure what that is. I'm ok with buying after market cpu cooler, although you are right it will increase my cost.

As for the GPU, I'm leaning towards getting the gtx 1060, I've read that its almost always more beneficial to get a single powerful GPU unless the programs/games are coded to utilize the two card setup. However the thought of getting 25%-30% does seem like a nice advantage if I so desire in the future from a SLI/CF setup.

I've also seen people putting two different GPUs on there MB and switching between them. Could I use Nvidia Quadro k2000 for modeling and get the gtx 1060 for rendering/gaming? I ask because I can get a k2000 for a $100.00 CAD

Cheers,
X



 

CyberPunkX

Prominent
Mar 5, 2017
6
0
510
Hey Bambiboom,
thanks for the recommendation. I think I'm still leaning towards the Ryzen CPU with more cores. I often have solidworks, illustrator, photoshop, indesign, and 10's of tabs open in chrome as I'm working and from what I gather more cores /multithreading would handle that better.

As for the GPU recommendation, I've read that CAD specific GPUs really only increase FPS and realtime rendering, while the CPU does all the work when rendering out a single image, which is what I'm more interested in achieving. That being said a higher clock speed would decrease render times. Or am I way of the mark here?

Would it be possible to have a dual GPU setup, run a CAD dedicated GPU like the Quadro k2000 and a rendering GPU like the GTX 1060 and switch between? or am I just making things more complicated then is necessary?

Cheers,
X




 

FD2Raptor

Admirable


Toms Editor, Igor Wallossek (FormatC), already verified that he can get an 1700 to 3.8Ghz even on a cheap Asus B350 board; he also noted that only on the much more expensive ASUS Crosshair VI were he able to get the CPU to go faster than 3.8Ghz as the power delivery system of the cheaper board (that he had available to him) couldn't handle the load.

So really, until AMD upgrade XFR capabilities (so far, this automatic overclock function has only manage to increases the CPU clock by a mere 100Mhz with most consumer cooling solution...), the 1700 just stomp an 1700x to the ground as the much better price-to-performance solution.

As for those watt number, I don't trust them. After all, you can look at Toms Ryzen 1800x review and see that the 1800x can draw up to 140W+.
Just like when Toms put an i5 7600k through the Intel Power Thermal Utilities, also reveal that the chip is capable of drawing 100W+ (unlike the locked and not overclockable variant which cap out at 71W).

Having look at some of the questions and answers surrounding getting a Quadro and a Geforce to work together, I'd say your best chance of getting it to work is though two Windows installation, one with the Quadro driver and the Geforce card disabled, and the other with the Geforce Game Ready driver and the Quadro disabled.

Scanning through the older gen cards however, I stumbled upon another possibility for you: a Sapphire NITRO R9 Fury 4GB for 366.95 CDN. It should performs very well in gaming (~GTX980Ti level, compare to GTX970 of RX480/GTX1060), and while not professional card level, its performance impact wouldn't be as harsh as a Geforce from a Quadro.
 

CyberPunkX

Prominent
Mar 5, 2017
6
0
510


So I have been scouring the web and trying to find deals and figure this all out. I've changed the build around a bit from what you suggested. I also increased my budget a bit. https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/TFfrnn

I went for the xfx 480 GTR, it was bundled with doom and had a mail in rebate!

I also went with the x370 Taichi because you can OC the chip and still use the XF function to push the chip further possibly and it also had a mail in rebate.

The case I'm still a little effy on, I would like the NZXT S340 Elite if I can find a deal. I'll keep looking while I wait for my components to arrive.

I order the NH-15D and already contacted Noctua to send the free mounting kit.

Now the only part I'm struggling to find is the appropriate DDR4 memory. I've looked through the Asrock QVL but I cant find any in my price point $100.00 - 150.00 or that is available online. As you suggested I would like 16bg to start with the capacity to go to 32gb.

I really appreciate the feedback, the stuff you suggested really helped to get this build going. Super stoked to get the piece and build this beast.

X


 

FD2Raptor

Admirable
Uh, the XFX RX 480 doesn't have the monopoly on those; both MSI offerings has it too: the MSI Gaming X 8GB ($309.99 - $20 rebate+Free Shipping+ Free Doom @NCIX) and the Armor OC 8GB ($299.99 - $15 Rebate + $9.9Shipping+Free Doom @ Newegg CA).

The free Doom game is an AMD promotions so it comes with almost any RX480 card, I believe. While nVidia current free game offer (For Honor or Ghost Recon: Wild Land) is only for GTX1070 or higher.

As for memory, the current solution seems to be that RX480 Armor 8GB ($294.98) to save ~$50 and put that toward two 1x8GB DIMM HX426C15FB/8 ($84.99*2) which ASROCK QVL listed that it support dual-channel with four DIMMs.

As for the NZXT S340 + Noctua NH-D15 + ASROCK X370 Taichi combo... I'm worried that you're taking on a lot of unknowns at this point. The S340 only support CPU cooler of 161mm whle the D15 is 165mm with fan; which mean you'd need to adjust the fan clip to lower the fan position to have any chance of it fitting inside the case, but lowering the fan position could very well mean there's possibility now that there wouldn't be any room left for the closest DIMM slot.
 

CyberPunkX

Prominent
Mar 5, 2017
6
0
510


Good call, I was able to refund the xfx rx480 and get the mis rx480 gaming GPU. Saved some money and got an upgrade. I haven't pulled the trigger on the case yet and I hear your concern about the height restrictions. Although I did find an image of a my very setup snuggly, very snuggly inside the NZXT S340 case. The person who posted the image said that there was absolutely no clearance left in the case but it fit and fit without pushing on the side of the case. I'm kind of toying with fitting this is an older mac pro aluminum tower case. They can be had for about $20.00-$40.00 but would require some problem solving.

Thanks for the link to memory, I'm waiting to buy it. Once the the motherboard is shipped. Right now the mobo are on back order so i'll have to wait. Which gives me some time to find the right case.

I did just see that the new line of up Ryzen 5 did drop and its a hard call. Get 2 more cores for $100.00 USD? Unfortunately there probably wont be any benchmarking for at least a few weeks. I could hold off and see if I need those extra cores and threads for my work flow. It's something to consider.
 
Also, I would suggest this double-edged sword. Simplest way to get both supported acceleration and gaming on this build.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: AMD RYZEN 7 1700 3.0GHz 8-Core Processor ($326.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Motherboard: Asus PRIME X370-PRO ATX AM4 Motherboard ($159.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws V Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR4-3000 Memory ($189.97 @ Jet)
Storage: SK hynix SL308 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($88.89 @ OutletPC)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($49.33 @ OutletPC)
Video Card: AMD Radeon Pro WX 5100 8GB Video Card ($369.99 @ B&H)
Case: NZXT S340 (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case ($66.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Power Supply: SeaSonic G 550W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($66.89 @ Newegg)
Total: $1319.04
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-03-16 16:41 EDT-0400
 
Solution