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$2K editing CPU?

$2,000 Capturing and Editing build: 1800X vs 7700K vs 6850K

I'm looking to spend around $2K on building a PC that will mostly be used for Capturing, Streaming, Content creation and Editing video. I'm at a loss for which parts to choose.

I'm not sure which CPU to choose now that AMD has the 1800X. And I do plan on running a GPU (either 1080 or 1080TI or dual GPUs if that is worth it), but I am not sure which choice is best. Will most of the load be handed to the GPU so I'm better off spending more budget on the GPU? And will losing PCI lanes cause me problems in the long run? And do I worry about onboard graphics on the CPU?

I need to put at least 1 capture card in the rig. I honestly don't care about the case aesthetic. I would like to have more than 1 capture card, but if that doesn't fit into the build cost, I can add one later. I would prefer PCI capture card. But I also need multiple USB 3.0 ports, an SD card reader. I would like to have USB C as well.

And I would want to run as much RAM as possible. Standard SSD over M.2 because it doesn't seem like performance/$ is worth it yet.

Does anyone have some suggestions?
Reply to ScrappeyDP
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  1. A lot of what you're asking for is CPU intensive.

    3D modeling or rendering is generally GPU intensive.

    Ryzen would be your best bet for this with the am4 chipset.

    I couldn't answer in the PCIe lanes. You're better off getting a single card if that is a concern. The 1080ti would stomp anything on the consumer scale market (gamers and below). Though, a regular 1080 is nothing to shake a stick at and is almost $200 cheaper.

    32 or 64gb of ram.

    4x8 or 4x16gb. I recommend Gskill ripjaw V as it tends to be the lowest cost per GB and super reliable.

    850evo would do well on the SSD front.

    I couldn't tell you about PCIe lanes on the ryzen chipset sorry. You'd need to look up how many lanes are on the AM4 board and which slots use what lanes. Most of the time 16 are dedicated between the first two PCIe slots, as a 1slot at 16x or a two slot at 8 and 8.
    Reply to The_Staplergun
  2. Ditto, the 1800x is the best choice here.
    Are you gaming at all?
    What software are you using?
    If your software doesn't use GPU acceleration you won't need a high end one, just a basic one like a 1050 that supports 4k.
    Do you need a monitor?
    Peripherals?
    OS?
    Overclocking?
    Reply to Chugalug_
  3. Another vote for Ryzen here.

    If you're happy to overclock then you may as well just get the 1700 and save yourself nearly $170. That's almost the difference between a 1080 and 1080ti (only relevant if you're hardcore gaming, obviously). Once overclocked the difference between the 1800X and 1700 basically disappears, maybe a couple of hundred mhz, but it's hardly going to be noticeable.

    In terms of PCIe lanes: The top end X370 chipset allows you to SLI with both x8 lanes to both cards (just fine). Plus you get one x4 PCIe 3.0 M.2 slot. Then most boards give you a few PCI 2.0 slots, which should be absolutely fine for most capture cards. People who really want to deck out the PC with 2 high end graphics cards and multiple NVMe drives, or RAID cards, or things like 10Gbps network cards are not going to have their needs met by the Ryzen motherboards. But the lanes are enough even for most high end workstations like you're looking to put together.
    Reply to rhysiam
  4. THANKS FOR YOUR RESPONSES!!!

    I actually have no desire to overclock and stress the system. I'm more looking for longevity.

    I forgot to mention acoustics. I would prefer to have a quiet system as well for when Live streaming and/or recording audio.


    There is a chance that I will game if I have the power to do so, but currently I game more on PS4 than anything. I honestly would be more likely to use my PS4 than my Steam account and would probably use the rig to capture PS4 gaming more than internal.

    I do need a new monitor, but I am trying to do that separate from the build. And plan to use a 1080 monitor until I upgrade.

    My biggest priorities are editing 4K footage, and having the power to Green Screen with OBS and the power to scrub thru 4K footage which my current machines can no longer keep up with.

    I typically edit using Premiere Pro CC and Davinci Resolve though I have been looking at Lightworks as well. All should be about the same CPU/GPU intensive.

    ":People who really want to deck out the PC with 2 high end graphics cards and multiple NVMe drives, or RAID cards, or things like 10Gbps network cards are not going to have their needs met by the Ryzen motherboards."

    The thing is, I DO want to deck my PC out with high end capture cards and GPUs. NVMe does not seem like it's worth the cost right now, I have a personal cloud NAS so I am not going to run RAID on it. I plan to barely store much on the actual PC and instead load from the NAS or external drives. I would like to get at least a Gigabit card in there, though 10GB is not needed as I won't even see a Gigabit connection for several more years where I live. And I DO want to have future expandability for the machine. Whether that is having a single 1080/1080TI and added another (if needed) or adding additional capture cards or USB3.0 ports, etc. I need at least 4 USB 3.0 ports and an SD card slot. And I'm not sure if that is particular to the motherboard itself, or if I can add those as expansions. but if those are going to take up lanes as well then is the 1800X going to be enough?

    I just don't want to spend $2K on a build only to find that I have made a mistake and it can't do all that I desire.

    rhysiam said:
    Another vote for Ryzen here.

    If you're happy to overclock then you may as well just get the 1700 and save yourself nearly $170. That's almost the difference between a 1080 and 1080ti (only relevant if you're hardcore gaming, obviously). Once overclocked the difference between the 1800X and 1700 basically disappears, maybe a couple of hundred mhz, but it's hardly going to be noticeable.

    In terms of PCIe lanes: The top end X370 chipset allows you to SLI with both x8 lanes to both cards (just fine). Plus you get one x3 PCIe 3.0 M.2 slot. Then most boards give you a few PCI 2.0 slots, which should be absolutely fine for most capture cards. People who really want to deck out the PC with 2 high end graphics cards and multiple NVMe drives, or RAID cards, or things like 10Gbps network cards are not going to have their needs met by the Ryzen motherboards. But the lanes are enough even for most high end workstations like you're looking to put together.
    Reply to ScrappeyDP
  5. THANKS FOR YOUR RESPONSES!!!

    I actually have no desire to overclock and stress the system. I'm more looking for longevity.

    I forgot to mention acoustics. I would prefer to have a quiet system as well for when Live streaming and/or recording audio.


    There is a chance that I will game if I have the power to do so, but currently I game more on PS4 than anything. I honestly would be more likely to use my PS4 than my Steam account and would probably use the rig to capture PS4 gaming more than internal.

    I do need a new monitor, but I am trying to do that separate from the build. And plan to use a 1080 monitor until I upgrade.

    My biggest priorities are editing 4K footage, and having the power to Green Screen with OBS and the power to scrub thru 4K footage which my current machines can no longer keep up with.

    I typically edit using Premiere Pro CC and Davinci Resolve though I have been looking at Lightworks as well. All should be about the same CPU/GPU intensive.

    ":People who really want to deck out the PC with 2 high end graphics cards and multiple NVMe drives, or RAID cards, or things like 10Gbps network cards are not going to have their needs met by the Ryzen motherboards."

    The thing is, I DO want to deck my PC out with high end capture cards and GPUs. NVMe does not seem like it's worth the cost right now, I have a personal cloud NAS so I am not going to run RAID on it. I plan to barely store much on the actual PC and instead load from the NAS or external drives. I would like to get at least a Gigabit card in there, though 10GB is not needed as I won't even see a Gigabit connection for several more years where I live. And I DO want to have future expandability for the machine. Whether that is having a single 1080/1080TI and added another (if needed) or adding additional capture cards or USB3.0 ports, etc. I need at least 4 USB 3.0 ports and an SD card slot. And I'm not sure if that is particular to the motherboard itself, or if I can add those as expansions. but if those are going to take up lanes as well then is the 1800X going to be enough?

    I just don't want to spend $2K on a build only to find that I have made a mistake and it can't do all that I desire.
    The_Staplergun said:
    A lot of what you're asking for is CPU intensive.

    3D modeling or rendering is generally GPU intensive.

    Ryzen would be your best bet for this with the am4 chipset.

    I couldn't answer in the PCIe lanes. You're better off getting a single card if that is a concern. The 1080ti would stomp anything on the consumer scale market (gamers and below). Though, a regular 1080 is nothing to shake a stick at and is almost $200 cheaper.

    32 or 64gb of ram.

    4x8 or 4x16gb. I recommend Gskill ripjaw V as it tends to be the lowest cost per GB and super reliable.

    850evo would do well on the SSD front.

    I couldn't tell you about PCIe lanes on the ryzen chipset sorry. You'd need to look up how many lanes are on the AM4 board and which slots use what lanes. Most of the time 16 are dedicated between the first two PCIe slots, as a 1slot at 16x or a two slot at 8 and 8.
    Reply to ScrappeyDP
  6. THANKS FOR YOUR RESPONSES!!!

    I actually have no desire to overclock and stress the system. I'm more looking for longevity.

    I forgot to mention acoustics. I would prefer to have a quiet system as well for when Live streaming and/or recording audio.


    There is a chance that I will game if I have the power to do so, but currently I game more on PS4 than anything. I honestly would be more likely to use my PS4 than my Steam account and would probably use the rig to capture PS4 gaming more than internal.

    I do need a new monitor, but I am trying to do that separate from the build. And plan to use a 1080 monitor until I upgrade.

    My biggest priorities are editing 4K footage, and having the power to Green Screen with OBS and the power to scrub thru 4K footage which my current machines can no longer keep up with.

    I typically edit using Premiere Pro CC and Davinci Resolve though I have been looking at Lightworks as well. All should be about the same CPU/GPU intensive.

    ":People who really want to deck out the PC with 2 high end graphics cards and multiple NVMe drives, or RAID cards, or things like 10Gbps network cards are not going to have their needs met by the Ryzen motherboards."

    The thing is, I DO want to deck my PC out with high end capture cards and GPUs. NVMe does not seem like it's worth the cost right now, I have a personal cloud NAS so I am not going to run RAID on it. I plan to barely store much on the actual PC and instead load from the NAS or external drives. I would like to get at least a Gigabit card in there, though 10GB is not needed as I won't even see a Gigabit connection for several more years where I live. And I DO want to have future expandability for the machine. Whether that is having a single 1080/1080TI and added another (if needed) or adding additional capture cards or USB3.0 ports, etc. I need at least 4 USB 3.0 ports and an SD card slot. And I'm not sure if that is particular to the motherboard itself, or if I can add those as expansions. but if those are going to take up lanes as well then is the 1800X going to be enough?

    I just don't want to spend $2K on a build only to find that I have made a mistake and it can't do all that I desire.

    Chugalug_ said:
    Ditto, the 1800x is the best choice here.
    Are you gaming at all?
    What software are you using?
    If your software doesn't use GPU acceleration you won't need a high end one, just a basic one like a 1050 that supports 4k.
    Do you need a monitor?
    Peripherals?
    OS?
    Overclocking?
    Reply to ScrappeyDP
  7. Ryzen boards have plenty of PCIe x1 slots, which are enough for the vast majority of capture cards on the market, as well as things like sounds cards, wifi cards, etc.

    You might need a better slot for a 3.1 gen 2 USB card, but most people needing additional USB ports would go for a hub instead of another card (most of which only gives you 2 ports anyway). If you get a nice powered hub then the only limitation over an expansion card is that they all share the single link back to the PC. Still though, once 3.1 gen 2 hubs become available that would give the devices on the hub 10Gbps bandwidth (more than 1GBps) back to the PC. That's unlikely to be a significant limiting factor for many years.

    On top of that, if you're not intending to game on the PC itself then there's basically no reason to invest in multiple graphics cards. In that case, even if you do find you need another high bandwidth slot in future, you could put it in the second GPU slot, providing x8 lanes of PCIe 3.0. That would drop your GPU to x8 lanes, but that's been shown time and again to make a few % difference to premium GPUs at most.

    For a lot of the work you're doing an 8 Core Ryzen is going to outperform any Intel CPU up to the 6900K (at >$1000 USD), which are pretty close performance wise. So either you get a lesser Intel CPU and trade CPU performance for a few extra lanes which *might* be useful in future. Or you pay much, much more for an equivalent performing Intel. I think the AMD is a pretty straightforward decision myself.
    Reply to rhysiam
  8. Here's a solid build, you'll likely see the difference with the 960 Evo in video work due to the transfer rates rather than just the standard OS boot and software most people get SSDs for.
    Edit: you don't need a H5 if you're not OCing. ;)
    PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

    CPU: AMD RYZEN 7 1800X 3.6GHz 8-Core Processor ($498.99 @ SuperBiiz)
    CPU Cooler: CRYORIG H7 49.0 CFM CPU Cooler ($31.49 @ Newegg Marketplace)
    Motherboard: ASRock AB350 Gaming K4 ATX AM4 Motherboard ($102.99 @ SuperBiiz)
    Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws V Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR4-3000 Memory ($189.97 @ Jet)
    Storage: Samsung 960 Evo 500GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive ($249.99 @ B&H)
    Storage: Seagate Barracuda 3TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($89.69 @ OutletPC)
    Case: NZXT S340 (Black/Red) ATX Mid Tower Case ($63.98 @ Newegg)
    Power Supply: SeaSonic G 550W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($66.89 @ Newegg)
    Other: GTX 1080 Ti Estimated Cost ($699.00)
    Total: $1992.99
    Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
    Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-03-08 18:58 EST-0500
    Reply to Chugalug_
  9. Awesome. I think the last part of this answers my question.

    My issue with running USB hubs is that - as I have already had problems with - pushing the bandwidth down a single USB 3.0 back to PC can't keep up with my needs. I've only been able to plug 2 webcams into a single hub and then it's saturated. I've had similar issues with audio equipment too.

    but yeah, if I can still get my capture cards and a USB expansion in there with a single card I might be good.

    Thanks!


    rhysiam said:
    Ryzen boards have plenty of PCIe x1 slots, which are enough for the vast majority of capture cards on the market, as well as things like sounds cards, wifi cards, etc.

    You might need a better slot for a 3.1 gen 2 USB card, but most people needing additional USB ports would go for a hub instead of another card (most of which only gives you 2 ports anyway). If you get a nice powered hub then the only limitation over an expansion card is that they all share the single link back to the PC. Still though, once 3.1 gen 2 hubs become available that would give the devices on the hub 10Gbps bandwidth (more than 1GBps) back to the PC. That's unlikely to be a significant limiting factor for many years.

    On top of that, if you're not intending to game on the PC itself then there's basically no reason to invest in multiple graphics cards. In that case, even if you do find you need another high bandwidth slot in future, you could put it in the second GPU slot, providing x8 lanes of PCIe 3.0. That would drop your GPU to x8 lanes, but that's been shown time and again to make a few % difference to premium GPUs at most.

    For a lot of the work you're doing an 8 Core Ryzen is going to outperform any Intel CPU up to the 6900K (at >$1000 USD), which are pretty close performance wise. So either you get a lesser Intel CPU and trade CPU performance for a few extra lanes which *might* be useful in future. Or you pay much, much more for an equivalent performing Intel. I think the AMD is a pretty straightforward decision myself.
    Reply to ScrappeyDP
  10. ScrappeyDP said:
    Awesome. I think the last part of this answers my question.

    My issue with running USB hubs is that - as I have already had problems with - pushing the bandwidth down a single USB 3.0 back to PC can't keep up with my needs. I've only been able to plug 2 webcams into a single hub and then it's saturated. I've had similar issues with audio equipment too.

    but yeah, if I can still get my capture cards and a USB expansion in there with a single card I might be good.

    Thanks!


    rhysiam said:
    Ryzen boards have plenty of PCIe x1 slots, which are enough for the vast majority of capture cards on the market, as well as things like sounds cards, wifi cards, etc.

    You might need a better slot for a 3.1 gen 2 USB card, but most people needing additional USB ports would go for a hub instead of another card (most of which only gives you 2 ports anyway). If you get a nice powered hub then the only limitation over an expansion card is that they all share the single link back to the PC. Still though, once 3.1 gen 2 hubs become available that would give the devices on the hub 10Gbps bandwidth (more than 1GBps) back to the PC. That's unlikely to be a significant limiting factor for many years.

    On top of that, if you're not intending to game on the PC itself then there's basically no reason to invest in multiple graphics cards. In that case, even if you do find you need another high bandwidth slot in future, you could put it in the second GPU slot, providing x8 lanes of PCIe 3.0. That would drop your GPU to x8 lanes, but that's been shown time and again to make a few % difference to premium GPUs at most.

    For a lot of the work you're doing an 8 Core Ryzen is going to outperform any Intel CPU up to the 6900K (at >$1000 USD), which are pretty close performance wise. So either you get a lesser Intel CPU and trade CPU performance for a few extra lanes which *might* be useful in future. Or you pay much, much more for an equivalent performing Intel. I think the AMD is a pretty straightforward decision myself.




    Would you like a 5 1/2" card reader drive bay? I can swap the case for one which supports drive bays if you want.
    Or are you aiming for a PCIE add in card? (You can get one of these for USBs too)
    Reply to Chugalug_
  11. ScrappeyDP said:
    Awesome. I think the last part of this answers my question.

    My issue with running USB hubs is that - as I have already had problems with - pushing the bandwidth down a single USB 3.0 back to PC can't keep up with my needs. I've only been able to plug 2 webcams into a single hub and then it's saturated. I've had similar issues with audio equipment too.

    but yeah, if I can still get my capture cards and a USB expansion in there with a single card I might be good.

    Thanks!


    rhysiam said:
    Ryzen boards have plenty of PCIe x1 slots, which are enough for the vast majority of capture cards on the market, as well as things like sounds cards, wifi cards, etc.

    You might need a better slot for a 3.1 gen 2 USB card, but most people needing additional USB ports would go for a hub instead of another card (most of which only gives you 2 ports anyway). If you get a nice powered hub then the only limitation over an expansion card is that they all share the single link back to the PC. Still though, once 3.1 gen 2 hubs become available that would give the devices on the hub 10Gbps bandwidth (more than 1GBps) back to the PC. That's unlikely to be a significant limiting factor for many years.

    On top of that, if you're not intending to game on the PC itself then there's basically no reason to invest in multiple graphics cards. In that case, even if you do find you need another high bandwidth slot in future, you could put it in the second GPU slot, providing x8 lanes of PCIe 3.0. That would drop your GPU to x8 lanes, but that's been shown time and again to make a few % difference to premium GPUs at most.

    For a lot of the work you're doing an 8 Core Ryzen is going to outperform any Intel CPU up to the 6900K (at >$1000 USD), which are pretty close performance wise. So either you get a lesser Intel CPU and trade CPU performance for a few extra lanes which *might* be useful in future. Or you pay much, much more for an equivalent performing Intel. I think the AMD is a pretty straightforward decision myself.




    Would you like a 5 1/2" card reader drive bay? I can swap the case for one which supports drive bays if you want.
    Or are you aiming for a PCIE add in card? (You can get one of these for USBs too)
    Reply to Chugalug_
  12. @Chugalug_ YES!!! This is perfect! Thank you.
    But why go with a 4x8GB RAM instead of 2x16? or 1x32? leaving expansion for the future?

    Will this build run quiet?

    Can you help me with an internal 4K capture card?

    I know going with an epiphan AVIO external card will likely happen at some point for me, but if I can build it with an internal card that would be ideal. I already have an Aver Media Live Gamer Portable which is 1080, but as I shift to 4K I'm going to need another.


    Thanks so much for your advice and part picking!!!!


    Chugalug_ said:
    Here's a solid build, you'll likely see the difference with the 960 Evo in video work due to the transfer rates rather than just the standard OS boot and software most people get SSDs for.

    Edit: you don't need a H5 if you're not OCing. ;)
    PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

    CPU: AMD RYZEN 7 1800X 3.6GHz 8-Core Processor ($498.99 @ SuperBiiz)
    CPU Cooler: CRYORIG H7 49.0 CFM CPU Cooler ($31.49 @ Newegg Marketplace)
    Motherboard: ASRock AB350 Gaming K4 ATX AM4 Motherboard ($102.99 @ SuperBiiz)
    Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws V Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR4-3000 Memory ($189.97 @ Jet)
    Storage: Samsung 960 Evo 500GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive ($249.99 @ B&H)
    Storage: Seagate Barracuda 3TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($89.69 @ OutletPC)
    Case: NZXT S340 (Black/Red) ATX Mid Tower Case ($63.98 @ Newegg)
    Power Supply: SeaSonic G 550W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($66.89 @ Newegg)
    Other: GTX 1080 Ti Estimated Cost ($699.00)
    Total: $1992.99
    Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
    Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-03-08 18:58 EST-0500
    Reply to ScrappeyDP
  13. Do you mean for SD card? Or what is the 5 1/2" bay for?
    Will is slow the computer to install it PCIE?

    If you mean for SD card I honestly have no preference as long as it doesn't impact performance. reality is I may end up making the transfers from another device to an external drive and duping everything from the external via USB 3.0 or USB C (If I shift there).

    IF it means freeing up PCIE for other expansion then yeah I would love to be able to have more future expansion.

    Chugalug_ said:
    ScrappeyDP said:
    Awesome. I think the last part of this answers my question.

    My issue with running USB hubs is that - as I have already had problems with - pushing the bandwidth down a single USB 3.0 back to PC can't keep up with my needs. I've only been able to plug 2 webcams into a single hub and then it's saturated. I've had similar issues with audio equipment too.

    but yeah, if I can still get my capture cards and a USB expansion in there with a single card I might be good.

    Thanks!


    rhysiam said:
    Ryzen boards have plenty of PCIe x1 slots, which are enough for the vast majority of capture cards on the market, as well as things like sounds cards, wifi cards, etc.

    You might need a better slot for a 3.1 gen 2 USB card, but most people needing additional USB ports would go for a hub instead of another card (most of which only gives you 2 ports anyway). If you get a nice powered hub then the only limitation over an expansion card is that they all share the single link back to the PC. Still though, once 3.1 gen 2 hubs become available that would give the devices on the hub 10Gbps bandwidth (more than 1GBps) back to the PC. That's unlikely to be a significant limiting factor for many years.

    On top of that, if you're not intending to game on the PC itself then there's basically no reason to invest in multiple graphics cards. In that case, even if you do find you need another high bandwidth slot in future, you could put it in the second GPU slot, providing x8 lanes of PCIe 3.0. That would drop your GPU to x8 lanes, but that's been shown time and again to make a few % difference to premium GPUs at most.

    For a lot of the work you're doing an 8 Core Ryzen is going to outperform any Intel CPU up to the 6900K (at >$1000 USD), which are pretty close performance wise. So either you get a lesser Intel CPU and trade CPU performance for a few extra lanes which *might* be useful in future. Or you pay much, much more for an equivalent performing Intel. I think the AMD is a pretty straightforward decision myself.




    Would you like a 5 1/2" card reader drive bay? I can swap the case for one which supports drive bays if you want.
    Or are you aiming for a PCIE add in card? (You can get one of these for USBs too)
    Reply to ScrappeyDP
  14. Quote:
    Awesome. I think the last part of this answers my question.

    My issue with running USB hubs is that - as I have already had problems with - pushing the bandwidth down a single USB 3.0 back to PC can't keep up with my needs. I've only been able to plug 2 webcams into a single hub and then it's saturated. I've had similar issues with audio equipment too.

    but yeah, if I can still get my capture cards and a USB expansion in there with a single card I might be good.

    Thanks!

    That hub issue sounds more to do with power than bandwidth. Webcams shouldn't get anywhere near saturating USB 3 transfer speeds. It's definitely an area where higher quality hubs with external power delivery will handle many situations that basic unpowered hubs will not. However, I haven't tried multiple webcams and DACS from a single hub. So perhaps I am being overly optimistic.

    Anyway, I just double-checked the specs on Ryzen and the standard X370 boards give you a total 12 USB 3 ports (2 gen 2, 10 gen 1), as well as 6 USB 2 ports. Surely that's enough? Higher end motherboards offer additional Gen 2 (10gbps) ports as well, boards with a total of 20 USB ports (4 gen 2, 10 gen 1, 6 USB 2) are not hard to come by or particularly expensive. That'll keep you out of trouble for a while, surely!?
    Reply to rhysiam
  15. I have tried multiple powered hubs. Believe me, if it was just power I would have solved it. It may also be my USB 3.0 port. But I have ran into the issue using audio controllers (DJ equipment/music production equipment) and when trying to stream/capture using software with multiple cams. I'm almost certain it's not the software's issue... I guess it could also be my internal CPU because I'm running everything on a laptop with no GPU using a: Processor Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-2520M CPU @ 2.50GHz, 2501 Mhz, 2 Core(s), 4 Logical Processor(s)

    But having run into the issue is the reason I would like to have multiple ports for USB.

    but yes, if those boards do come with that many ports then I should be good. Thanks! I just didn't know how many are on the board... (honestly I'm still confused a little about how the I/O works on the board then.... are all those available as straight plug in ports sticking out the back of the case then? or how is all the plugging in happening?)

    rhysiam said:
    Quote:
    Awesome. I think the last part of this answers my question.

    My issue with running USB hubs is that - as I have already had problems with - pushing the bandwidth down a single USB 3.0 back to PC can't keep up with my needs. I've only been able to plug 2 webcams into a single hub and then it's saturated. I've had similar issues with audio equipment too.

    but yeah, if I can still get my capture cards and a USB expansion in there with a single card I might be good.

    Thanks!

    That hub issue sounds more to do with power than bandwidth. Webcams shouldn't get anywhere near saturating USB 3 transfer speeds. It's definitely an area where higher quality hubs with external power delivery will handle many situations that basic unpowered hubs will not. However, I haven't tried multiple webcams and DACS from a single hub. So perhaps I am being overly optimistic.

    Anyway, I just double-checked the specs on Ryzen and the standard X370 boards give you a total 12 USB 3 ports (2 gen 2, 10 gen 1), as well as 6 USB 2 ports. Surely that's enough? Higher end motherboards offer additional Gen 2 (10gbps) ports as well, boards with a total of 20 USB ports (4 gen 2, 10 gen 1, 6 USB 2) are not hard to come by or particularly expensive. That'll keep you out of trouble for a while, surely!?
    Reply to ScrappeyDP
  16. Quote:
    I have tried multiple powered hubs. Believe me, if it was just power I would have solved it. It may also be my USB 3.0 port. But I have ran into the issue using audio controllers (DJ equipment/music production equipment) and when trying to stream/capture using software with multiple cams. I'm almost certain it's not the software's issue... I guess it could also be my internal CPU because I'm running everything on a laptop with no GPU using a: Processor Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-2520M CPU @ 2.50GHz, 2501 Mhz, 2 Core(s), 4 Logical Processor(s)

    But having run into the issue is the reason I would like to have multiple ports for USB.

    It's going back a ways and I might be mistaken, but some of the chipsets with the i5-2520M CPUs did NOT support USB 3 natively and relied on early non-Intel USB 3 controllers from companies like ASMedia, which can absolutely cause issues (I've run into those myself!). But for sure I understand your preference. If you're running a number of high bandwidth devices then preferring dedicated USB ports makes sense.

    Quote:
    but yes, if those boards do come with that many ports then I should be good. Thanks! I just didn't know how many are on the board... (honestly I'm still confused a little about how the I/O works on the board then.... are all those available as straight plug in ports sticking out the back of the case then? or how is all the plugging in happening?)

    It depends on the motherboard you purchase. Basically the different Ryzen chipsets offer different numbers of USB ports (so a standard X370 provides a total of 14 USB ports, while a standard B350 chipset offers a total of 10). Then motherboards will often include their own USB controllers to provide more ports. That's basically like having a USB add in card except that it's built into the motherboard. Then the motherboard manufacturer decides how to make all those ports available, splitting them between the rear IO shield and headers for connecting to front panels.

    When you come to choose a motherboard look at the detailed specs, they will tell you how many USB ports (at what speed) are available on the rear and as headers for front panels. Pick a board with a layout that suits your needs and the case you purchase. So, for example, don't get a motherboard which makes 6 USB ports available through headers if your case only has 2 USB ports on the front... the rest would be wasted.

    Final thing is that if you do get a board with additional USB ports through a ASMedia controller or the like, make sure you put your critical components on the chipset USB ports. In my experience they tend to have better driver support for higher stability and better performance. The mobo manual will tell you which ports come from which controllers. They're often separated with different colours too.
    Reply to rhysiam
  17. In case it's not obvious, ports on the rear IO shield are literally just ports on the back of your computer.

    A couple may be "Type C" (which is the new standard - requiring different cables), but most will be "Type A" which is the bog-standard USB port which has been around for ever.

    The headers are a different standard, cases will come with a combination of USB 2 and/or USB 3 ports on the front... and the connectors are different. So USB 2 front panel connectors require USB 2 onboard headers (from the motherboard) and USB 3 require the different USB 3 headers.
    Reply to rhysiam
  18. I am leaning toward the build that @Chugalug_ posted (listed below)

    I'm afraid if I go making a bunch of my own choices I will have either overlooked something or not known enough about a modern build where I choose parts that won't work together. I haven't been inside a box for anything but RAM and drive upgrades since about 2005. This will be my first build in literally like 2 decades! ... I've been inside my laptops and I know a little... but when it comes to modern PCs I know only enough to be dangerous unless I follow someone's advice. And if I am going to throw down $2,000 I don't want to make a mistake and I want to know my build is optimized for today while also being capable for tomorrow, next year, 3 years from now... or until I shift to 8K.


    Thanks for all your advice and help!


    Edit: you don't need a H5 if you're not OCing. ;)
    PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

    CPU: AMD RYZEN 7 1800X 3.6GHz 8-Core Processor ($498.99 @ SuperBiiz)
    CPU Cooler: CRYORIG H7 49.0 CFM CPU Cooler ($31.49 @ Newegg Marketplace)
    Motherboard: ASRock AB350 Gaming K4 ATX AM4 Motherboard ($102.99 @ SuperBiiz)
    Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws V Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR4-3000 Memory ($189.97 @ Jet)
    Storage: Samsung 960 Evo 500GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive ($249.99 @ B&H)
    Storage: Seagate Barracuda 3TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($89.69 @ OutletPC)
    Case: NZXT S340 (Black/Red) ATX Mid Tower Case ($63.98 @ Newegg)
    Power Supply: SeaSonic G 550W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($66.89 @ Newegg)
    Other: GTX 1080 Ti Estimated Cost ($699.00)
    Total: $1992.99
    Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
    Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-03-08 18:58 EST-0500


    rhysiam said:
    Quote:
    I have tried multiple powered hubs. Believe me, if it was just power I would have solved it. It may also be my USB 3.0 port. But I have ran into the issue using audio controllers (DJ equipment/music production equipment) and when trying to stream/capture using software with multiple cams. I'm almost certain it's not the software's issue... I guess it could also be my internal CPU because I'm running everything on a laptop with no GPU using a: Processor Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-2520M CPU @ 2.50GHz, 2501 Mhz, 2 Core(s), 4 Logical Processor(s)

    But having run into the issue is the reason I would like to have multiple ports for USB.

    It's going back a ways and I might be mistaken, but some of the chipsets with the i5-2520M CPUs did NOT support USB 3 natively and relied on early non-Intel USB 3 controllers from companies like ASMedia, which can absolutely cause issues (I've run into those myself!). But for sure I understand your preference. If you're running a number of high bandwidth devices then preferring dedicated USB ports makes sense.

    Quote:
    but yes, if those boards do come with that many ports then I should be good. Thanks! I just didn't know how many are on the board... (honestly I'm still confused a little about how the I/O works on the board then.... are all those available as straight plug in ports sticking out the back of the case then? or how is all the plugging in happening?)

    It depends on the motherboard you purchase. Basically the different Ryzen chipsets offer different numbers of USB ports (so a standard X370 provides a total of 14 USB ports, while a standard B350 chipset offers a total of 10). Then motherboards will often include their own USB controllers to provide more ports. That's basically like having a USB add in card except that it's built into the motherboard. Then the motherboard manufacturer decides how to make all those ports available, splitting them between the rear IO shield and headers for connecting to front panels.

    When you come to choose a motherboard look at the detailed specs, they will tell you how many USB ports (at what speed) are available on the rear and as headers for front panels. Pick a board with a layout that suits your needs and the case you purchase. So, for example, don't get a motherboard which makes 6 USB ports available through headers if your case only has 2 USB ports on the front... the rest would be wasted.

    Final thing is that if you do get a board with additional USB ports through a ASMedia controller or the like, make sure you put your critical components on the chipset USB ports. In my experience they tend to have better driver support for higher stability and better performance. The mobo manual will tell you which ports come from which controllers. They're often separated with different colours too.
    Reply to ScrappeyDP
  19. That's fine Scrappey, I can update you on the current landscape if you want. :)
    Higher RAM speed and threads help with improving rendering speeds etc.
    AMD haven't made a CPU in ages, but just released their Ryzen 7 high end CPUs which are highly optimized for rendering and video work, but struggle in games compared to Intel's most recent x series CPUs and i7s.

    1TB is now considered the minimum for storage, with 2TB being for larger use like more games or video work, and an SSD being optimal for the latter.
    SSDs speed up OS boot time and loading times for software, they also help with heavy file transfer due to their high read/write speeds.

    8k is ages off, 4k will remain the standard for at least 5 years to come.
    Its essentially running 4x 4k displays.
    Reply to Chugalug_
  20. Wouldn't that be 16k? (4x4)

    8k to 4k would be like 2k is to 1080p.
    Reply to The_Staplergun
  21. 2k isn't 2x 1080p.
    2k is a resolution that is roughly equivalent to 1.6x 1080p.
    4k is a direct translation of 4x 1080p, think of it as area in maths terms, not straight numbers.
    8k however is different, you can't exactly put 8 1080ps in a square, you need 16 right?
    You can't just double dimensions and expect them to add up, it's a multiplication equation, not addition. It needs to be bigger.
    henceforth 4k is 4 lots of 1080p and 8k is 4 lots of 4k.
    Reply to Chugalug_
  22. I LOVE this!... but I'm not that slow :-)

    I do realize AMD just launched their Ryzen line to try and catch up to Intel... I was actually hoping Intel would slash their 6900 price to be competitive around the $600 range...
    I have watched some reviews on Ryzen and I try to stay up on the mainstream basics on youtube tech channels. I know all about the drama with GamersNexus and their gaming results... but that's kind of why I am confused because I really don't plan on gaming that much, but if games aren't being developed to optimize ryzen then I'm afraid that other software like Premiere or Resolve or Lightworks, etc. won't run as optimally or fast on an AMD as if I had an Intel chip. ... From what I understand Windows 10 as on OS isn't even optimized to Ryzen... (P.S. Windows 10 with possibly a Linux Mint dualboot for the new build)

    I have 16TB of external storage that is also available via my NAS. I have a cloud device with 4TB built in and I have another 8TB 3.5" Seagate external and another 4TB WD all can daisy chain into the NAS. though I more likely plug the latter 2 in via USB.

    I also have an older Crucial M550 2.5" 128GB SSD (and 2 mechanical 160GB 2.5") drive that I pulled out of my laptops when I upgraded them to SSDs (I have 4 Fujitsu Lifebooks, 1 on mint, 2 are T900s on Windows 10 and 1 is a T901 on Windows 10).

    I do understand what you mean about what is considered the minimum now and if the prices are where they are quoted I'm cool with that. even though I still plan to try and run the build as clean as possible and store anything not being worked on off the machine. But I guess for future expansion and if I do plan to throw a few games on it... but yes definitely an SSD for the boot drive. if it's cost effective to add another drive for storage adding the mechanical seems like a good deal...

    I realize it seems like 8K is far off, but I was shooting 4K in 2013 and there are 8K and 10K cameras that are becoming more standard. And even if I render at 4K, working with an 8K image means that cropping can be done and still have full resolution. I'm looking to future proof myself more-so so I don't run into the issues I am now with scrubbing and extreme render times trying to use my existing rigs. ... 2018 you will see a cell phone shooting 8K ;-) you can quote me!

    Oh, another thing that I believe is probably not going to happen, but IF possible I would also desire a FireWire port. I have an old MIDI controller Project Mix I/O that I use as a mixer because it has motorized faders and still runs well and I am so used to editing with it.. it is Firewire only. Discontinued. I have actually had to replace the firewire board myself to keep it going. but I would love to continue being able to use it with the new rig.

    Reality it I rarely have issues with the audio production I do now, so I can still get away with using my laptops for some of it, but if I would edit video using the controller that would be super nice.


    Would it be possible for me to throw you some money and have you help consult me on the build? As in help me choose the specific parts and then when I get them - I will probably shoot a video of my assembly process- if I run into issues assembling or getting it to post or optimize be available to answer questions/help me thru the process?

    I'm not even sure if I need to buy additional cables or cards for networking, etc. or if the parts come with the necessary cables and the motherboard has an inbuilt networking...


    4K is named for being almost 4000 pixels wide, or 3840 to be exact. 1080p is technically 2K, because it's 1920 pixels wide. What people are now calling 2K is 2560 pixels wide


    The number is in reference to the horizontal dimension, or the width. To the thousand pixels.
    Don't worry, if you're not confused yet, just wait for all the "18:9" not "2:1" displays to be released and F EVERYONE up.

    but yes, I do also want a display recommendation if you have one. Obviously 4K. but I may not necessarily go with it depending on price and value because I may go on a display hunt myself.


    Thanks for all your help again. You guys are the best. I know if I came here someone would give me some assistance!! Thanks for making this community have reputation enough to bring me here!!

    Chugalug_ said:
    That's fine Scrappey, I can update you on the current landscape if you want. :)
    Higher RAM speed and threads help with improving rendering speeds etc.
    AMD haven't made a CPU in ages, but just released their Ryzen 7 high end CPUs which are highly optimized for rendering and video work, but struggle in games compared to Intel's most recent x series CPUs and i7s.

    1TB is now considered the minimum for storage, with 2TB being for larger use like more games or video work, and an SSD being optimal for the latter.
    SSDs speed up OS boot time and loading times for software, they also help with heavy file transfer due to their high read/write speeds.

    8k is ages off, 4k will remain the standard for at least 5 years to come.
    Its essentially running 4x 4k displays.

    Reply to ScrappeyDP
  23. I gotta go for now but will check back later...

    You haven't listed a GPU in your build yet though... Ryzen has no onboard so needs a GPU. And you'll want one for your high res editing workflows anyway.

    Also - is your monitor included in the 2K budget, or can you put the rig together for 2K and then have a separate monitor budget?

    I'll check back later.
    Reply to rhysiam
  24. Yeah, that's a better explanation. :)
    I listed a 1080ti in the build, see under 'other'.
    OP said the monitor was on a separate budget.
    However, 8k really is that far away, it will only really become available to the mainstream public to buy next year at CES if a panel manufacturer gets really ballsy, but I doubt that.
    Phone cameras won't begin shooting 8k because the demand for resolution and the supported res in both the CPU and included graphics chip is too high, this is four times 4k remember, we just hit 4k recording 60fps last year I believe.

    In the professional photo and video market it will become a thing for sure though in the near future.
    Camera that can shoot at that high a resolution are only just entering the market, they haven't been adopted on a large scale yet, and they're god damn expensive, same goes for TVs. :o

    Only time will tell when we get this really, but at the moment I suspect that those particular people are focusing on OLED, as the consumer market currently has no 8k content, and even professionally that scale is limited.
    Reply to Chugalug_
  25. Well that's another thing I was unsure about. IF I go AMD for the CPU would I not want to go AMD for the GPU? Reality is if the 1080TI is going to be the fastest and most optimized for my work and it fits the budget then I would go 1080TI. or 1080 if not. unless keeping AMD with AMD is the way to go.

    I would think I couldn't do the build for under 2K so montior, keyboard, mouse not included. I have an MX Master that I got about a week after it was released and tons of other mice around. I have at least 2 USB keyboards I can get by with until I upgrade there. I honestly do not want to purchase a monitor now - I currently have a 1080P projector on a 120" screen in a room with the other 3 walls greenscreened and 2 other "televisions" that are only 1080P, so I kind of need to get a 4K display sometime soon... I have almost bit the bullet several times, but as soon as I see something that makes sense something else comes around the corner... and prices are constantly dropping... such is technology... but if I get a good recommendation (size does matter and spectrum does matter and portability/setup somewhat matters.). I have often considered just using a TV because as I said, I don't really plan on gaming so the slight lag - though video editing - isn't going to be a significant issue. Especially when I'm editing frame-by-frame at times.

    But no, no monitor in the budget. But if possible a capture card included. a top end GPU optimized for the workload of editing, capturing, ingesting and streaming. As much RAM as the budget allows, the best CPU for the budget/workload, an SD card reader if possible, multiple USB 3.0/3.1, if possible at least 1 USB C, if I could get 2 capture cards that would be ideal, but I understand I may just have to add another down the line if the budget doesn't work for it, if possible though not likely a Firewire port, Do I need a sound card? does the motherboard have one built in? Do I need a networking card? does the motherboard have one built in? - YES I need and want sound and networking. Though I will plug in a Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 for a lot of the sound and editing work, or Project Mix I/O, or one of my other DACs - but those will be USB (or firewire if available). and won't be used except when editing. typically I would run a simple 1/8" TRS phono (or optical cable if available but not prioritized) from a surround sound receiver.
    I will honestly very very rarely ever consume content besides webpages or acquiring things for an edit via the machine. I typically have another device running simultaneously with some type of media while I'm on any of my rigs. So having a dolby surround connection, etc. is not a necessity.

    the focus is being able to plug in the devices I need USB and HDMI capture and being able to edit and scrub thru 4K multi layered edits smoothly and be able to ingest and capture while streaming out smoothly both Audio and Video. And running quietly is another high priority due to recording music and using super sensitive mics that tend to pick up fans, etc. and sometimes running long runs of cable to the machine in another room isn't capable.

    If I happen to throw some games at it later down the road and it's dropping frames that is a sacrafice I am willing to make IF it means more optimization for the major workload I purchase it for.

    IF overclocking is going to help with optimizing it for the workload and will not needlessly stress the components or cause unnecessary noise from the fans and I can accomplish without too much work on my part I am willing to try it, but I have literally never overclocked a chip on any device I've ever owned. I don't want to buy a chip and kill it, and I don't want to make the rig run louder than it has to to keep up with the workload.

    When I edit the footage is likely the most stress on it and then I actually don't care about noise. I only care about noise when I am capturing a stream (which will be 1080 or the near future at least) - though I do want a 4K capable card - and using hot mics, OR when I am recording music - i.e. drums, guitar, bass, percussion, vocals- I have been recording music for decades and I am trying to get a live video+audio podcast stream back up and running thru this new rig so those mics will be super sensitive.. - when I capture my gaming from PS4 I can run a more simple USB mic like my Yetti or a condenser on the Scarlet 18i20 and I don't care too much about the noise bleed for gaming captures. But it does matter for Music and Video/Podcast recording.

    THANKS FOR YOUR HELP!!! sorry to write so many words. That's what I do.
    Reply to ScrappeyDP
  26. P.S. the build that @Chugalug_ posted seems like a good build, but I haven't dug into it too much. If I could slam more RAM into it I would love to do that. And adding a capture card.. or if I have to stretch the budget a little to get what I want I would consider that option, or if that could be an option where I add to the build to get it there by adding a part 2 or 3 months down the road for another 2 or $300. ... but if I throw 300 at a display then that will likely not happen

    Edit: you don't need a H5 if you're not OCing. ;)
    PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

    CPU: AMD RYZEN 7 1800X 3.6GHz 8-Core Processor ($498.99 @ SuperBiiz)
    CPU Cooler: CRYORIG H7 49.0 CFM CPU Cooler ($31.49 @ Newegg Marketplace)
    Motherboard: ASRock AB350 Gaming K4 ATX AM4 Motherboard ($102.99 @ SuperBiiz)
    Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws V Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR4-3000 Memory ($189.97 @ Jet)
    Storage: Samsung 960 Evo 500GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive ($249.99 @ B&H)
    Storage: Seagate Barracuda 3TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($89.69 @ OutletPC)
    Case: NZXT S340 (Black/Red) ATX Mid Tower Case ($63.98 @ Newegg)
    Power Supply: SeaSonic G 550W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($66.89 @ Newegg)
    Other: GTX 1080 Ti Estimated Cost ($699.00)
    Total: $1992.99
    Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
    Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-03-08 18:58 EST-0500
    Reply to ScrappeyDP
  27. Dunno why you put down my build again lol.
    @OP, here's an edited build to reflect the costs you just mentioned including.
    You know you can plug in the Soundrite to your PC and use that as the sound card right?
    If you're talking wired networking, there's already an ethernet port on the mobo, you just hook that up to a router and you're set, but if you want wireless i've included a card.
    OCing is relatively safe, just put the core clock up a bit, tweak the voltage a tiny amount and you're set.
    With these high core count CPUs though, the overclock generally isn't great, as all the cores have to comply with that clock, meaning if one doesn't like it the CPU will be unstable, hence why when we're OCing we test with stress test software and intensive benchmarks.
    PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

    CPU: AMD RYZEN 7 1700 3.0GHz 8-Core Processor ($328.99 @ SuperBiiz)
    CPU Cooler: CRYORIG H7 49.0 CFM CPU Cooler ($31.49 @ Newegg Marketplace)
    Motherboard: ASRock AB350 Gaming K4 ATX AM4 Motherboard ($102.99 @ SuperBiiz)
    Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws V Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR4-3000 Memory ($189.97 @ Jet)
    Storage: Samsung 850 EVO-Series 500GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($177.89 @ OutletPC)
    Storage: Seagate Barracuda 3TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($89.69 @ OutletPC)
    Case: NZXT S340 (Black/Red) ATX Mid Tower Case ($62.99 @ NCIX US)
    Power Supply: SeaSonic G 550W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($66.89 @ Newegg)
    Wireless Network Adapter: Gigabyte GC-WB867D-I REV 4.2 PCI-Express x1 802.11a/b/g/n/ac Wi-Fi Adapter ($29.99 @ SuperBiiz)
    Monitor: LG 27UD58-B 27.0" 3840x2160 60Hz Monitor ($399.99 @ Amazon)
    Other: GTX 1080 Ti Estimated Cost ($699.00)
    Total: $2179.88
    Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
    Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-03-09 00:12 EST-0500
    Reply to Chugalug_
  28. @Chugalug_ I didn't mean 8K for the display. I mean shooting and editing 8K footage.

    The Note 3 released in Sept. 2013 was capable of shooting 4K. There were a ton of actual video rigs shooting prior to that. But it went into the more maintstream DSLR style more recently. There are actually plenty of cameras that shoot 10K, and more high end cameras shooting over 20, 60, 100K... I don't plan on editing any of that soon, but I do plan on getting into 8K editing within the next year or 2. i.e. Red Weapons are shooting 8-10K NOW.... The Maintstream is catching up to CONSUMING 4K content, but capturing and editing larger than 4K (8-10K+) is becoming the standard NOWish.. If I have an 8K image I can crop it x4 (remember dimensions) and still have a FULL 4K image to render. So even though the render is at 4K and the upload is at 4K and the content being consumed is at 4K - IN THE EDIT the file is larger than 4K in order to have a buffer room in the footprint to work with during the edit. So it's more so that I would desire for CPU/GPU/Build to handle the EDITING side of 8K footage, which means more playing and scrubbing inside software. IF I had to lower the resolution on the SOFTWARE "display" window for playback during the edit I guess I can live with that, - this is what I do now with 4K footage on my laptops, run the software's internal playback window at a lower resolution than the actual file so that I can more smoothly scrub/edit because my machine can't keep up, then render back out at the full resolution. Always still using only the 4K monitor to edit/view... but knowing that the actual file size being worked with is 8K. ... afterall, when using the software, unless the playback window was being used at "full screen" size, the playback isn't showing at the full 4K pixel range anyway. but the CPU and GPU need to be capable of handling the 4K file just the same.
    Reply to ScrappeyDP
  29. Yeah, that was @30fps, oh well! :)
    It's all 8k ready when that eventually comes around anyway, you're set.
    Storage might become a concern for you working with high res files in the future, but you can always just grab another 7200RPM HDD of whatever size you need and chuck it in.
    Any other concerns that you need addressed?
    Reply to Chugalug_
  30. @Chugalug - you still haven't included a GPU in the build. Have I missed something (there is a lot of text above, so that's entirely possible!) But as is - your build won't work and requires a chunk more cash for a competent GPU.

    @ScrappeyDP - What software are you using for your video editing? Have you done some reading on what GPUs work best with them. You're talking about throwing huge money at a 1080ti, which *might* be helpful, but may also be far from the right pick for your needs.

    Have a look at this article - which is by no means comprehensive in any way (and is also over 6 months old). But it's looking at a specific Premiere Pro build and gives you an idea of the differences between GPUs: https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Adobe-Premiere-Pro-CC-2015-3-Pascal-GPU-Performance-840/
    While some workflows are going to make use of a 1080ti, you can see from the article that in loads of cases the 1060 (which can be had for around $200 or a little more) performs basically identically. If you go with different software, that picture will change completely. I know the older (and more amateur level) Sony Vegas 13, for example, tends to run better on AMD hardware.

    RE AMD cards in an AMD system, that's a complete nonsense. It's just an x86 CPU with a PCIe slot. AMD cards don't run any better in an AMD system than Nvidia cards do, so don't let that influence your decision.

    What software do you use?
    Can you do some research around the right video card for you?
    Then we can try to put together a balanced build for your needs.
    Reply to rhysiam
  31. I'm just gonna hop on this train real quick and say that I'm 100% certain that the equipment he needs and wants is well over 2k.

    You're not going to get what you're looking for with 2k.

    My build was $2500 with all the flashy lights. You can drop I'd say $250 for all the rgb crap and you're still over budget with components that only partially cover the bases, as you're asking for quite a hefty system for larger workloads than a video game.
    Reply to The_Staplergun
  32. Can I skip the display you included in the latter build so I can go with the 1800X? build? Then I will get a monitor with a different budget. Or would you suggest NOT trying to use a 4K TV display as a display even if I am not gaming on it?

    Does the build come with everything I would need to assemble it and get it operational? or would I need to buy cables?
    I don't see an OS included. Do you have a recommendation for getting an OS/Key? Or should I use Bonanza.com to get a $33.00 Windows key? I don't know if I can still do that, but the keys I received for all 3 of my W10 machines have never given me any issues and always validate. I think these were actually Windows 7 that was freely upgraded...

    Hard drive space is not a major concern. I have 16TBs of storage so I plan to move everything off the machine unless I am working on a project.


    Oh also... Does this build come with RGB? ;-) ha ha, just kidding. I have enough lasers and lights as it is!

    Thanks again for your help!!

    Chugalug_ said:
    Yeah, that was @30fps, oh well! :)
    It's all 8k ready when that eventually comes around anyway, you're set.
    Storage might become a concern for you working with high res files in the future, but you can always just grab another 7200RPM HDD of whatever size you need and chuck it in.
    Any other concerns that you need addressed?
    Reply to ScrappeyDP
  33. Is this for professional use or for a hobby?
    Reply to The_Staplergun
  34. He listed the GPU under "Other" and it is a 1080TI

    Other: GTX 1080 Ti Estimated Cost ($699.00)

    Maybe because they are not available yet? ... honestly I can wait until they are released if they're coming in the next 4 weeks or less.
    Reply to ScrappeyDP
  35. The_Staplergun said:
    I'm just gonna hop on this train real quick and say that I'm 100% certain that the equipment he needs and wants is well over 2k.

    You're not going to get what you're looking for with 2k.

    My build was $2500 with all the flashy lights. You can drop I'd say $250 for all the rgb crap and you're still over budget with components that only partially cover the bases, as you're asking for quite a hefty system for larger workloads than a video game.

    But this is the point I'm making. OP doesn't want to game - from what I can tell - so then the GPU choice depends entirely on the workflow. For example, if OP is working in Premiere Pro from 4K RED footage and exporting to either 4K or 1080P h.264, a GTX 1060 is equally as competent as a $1000 Titan X (Pascal).

    So if that's the workflow, you can put together a build with a Ryzen 7 1700 OC'd to 3.9 or 4Ghz, 32GB of nice fast RAM, an SSD and storage drive, two capture cards and maybe even a 4K display for $2000.

    Obviously if OP's workflow really demands a 1080ti, then things are going to be much more difficult. But that's the question that needs answering before we can put a build together.
    Reply to rhysiam
  36. ScrappeyDP said:
    He listed the GPU under "Other" and it is a 1080TI

    Other: GTX 1080 Ti Estimated Cost ($699.00)

    Maybe because they are not available yet? ... honestly I can wait until they are released if they're coming in the next 4 weeks or less.

    Right you are, yes. Thanks. Sorry @Chugalug.

    I believe they're launching on the 15th March. There's still a big question in my mind about whether you actually need that much GPU horsepower. Did you have a look at that article I linked? Are you using Premiere Pro or something else?
    Reply to rhysiam
  37. You entirely missed the point of what I said. I'm saying that the parts he's needing are MORE EXPENSIVE than my gaming build and my gaming build was over $2500.
    Reply to The_Staplergun
  38. rhysiam said:
    ScrappeyDP said:
    He listed the GPU under "Other" and it is a 1080TI

    Other: GTX 1080 Ti Estimated Cost ($699.00)

    Maybe because they are not available yet? ... honestly I can wait until they are released if they're coming in the next 4 weeks or less.

    Right you are, yes. Thanks. Sorry @Chugalug.

    I believe they're launching on the 15th March. There's still a big question in my mind about whether you actually need that much GPU horsepower. Did you have a look at that article I linked? Are you using Premiere Pro or something else?

    Gaming (live streaming too), also CUDA acceleration can be extremely helpful in certain video application.
    Reply to Chugalug_
  39. If you define professional use as producing income from the content then yes.

    If you consider professional use working for a large corporation or freelancing for something big budget, no.

    The audio (recording) side of things is not going to stress the build, except for worrying about acoustics.
    It's the Capturing/Live streaming and the Video editing that I am more worried about.


    I am currently more using Premiere Pro CC than Resolve. Like I said I looked at Lightworks too. I really HATE subscription models for software! so I want something I can own permanently. BUT I also enjoy using different editors for different projects. I came from audio editing where I learned originally on early Sony "DJ" software and analog recorders and have used almost every major DAW available today at one point or another. It is important to know the skills and techniques needed to accomplish the task regardless of the tool being used, and it's great to force yourself to use a foreign program to try and accomplish your vision because the process develops you in new ways. You learn new skills or techniques or discover new ways of doing something or new ideas.

    there are even times when I need a quick edit where I will go back and use something like Windows Movie Maker or VSDC or Filmora.

    But by FAR I use Premiere Pro CC the most, and Davinci Resolve the second most.


    I will read the article and get back to you on GPU suggestions. Thanks!!
    Reply to ScrappeyDP
  40. The_Staplergun said:
    You entirely missed the point of what I said. I'm saying that the parts he's needing are MORE EXPENSIVE than my gaming build and my gaming build was over $2500.

    What on earth are you on about?
    Sorry, but a 7700k 1080 32GB RAM build only costs $1400 to make.
    You just spent money on an overkill 1TB SSD, a top of the line TV, an overkill 1000w PSU which will see no additional use above the 550w mark and RGB RAM.
    Your spending is too extravagant, 2k is heaps for this rig...
    The list I put together firstly costs less than 2.5k, secondly has a 4k monitor included and thirdly, the OP has stated that "There is a chance that I will game if I have the power to do so".
    The 1080ti will also help heaps with CUDA acceleration in premiere pro if CUDA is enabled.
    Reply to Chugalug_
  41. Case and point.
    Also @OP, if you want quiet operation, turn the motherboard's system fan preset to quiet, or low, that will limit the speed of the fans so they run quieter.

    PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

    CPU: Intel Core i7-7700K 4.2GHz Quad-Core Processor ($337.49 @ OutletPC)
    CPU Cooler: CRYORIG H7 49.0 CFM CPU Cooler ($31.49 @ Newegg Marketplace)
    Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z170X-UD3 ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($89.99 @ Newegg)
    Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws V Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR4-3000 Memory ($189.97 @ Jet)
    Storage: Zotac Premium Edition 240GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($69.60 @ Amazon)
    Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($49.33 @ OutletPC)
    Video Card: MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Video Card ($509.99 @ Amazon)
    Case: NZXT S340 (Black/Red) ATX Mid Tower Case ($62.99 @ NCIX US)
    Power Supply: SeaSonic G 550W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($66.89 @ Newegg)
    Total: $1407.74
    Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
    Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-03-09 01:35 EST-0500
    Reply to Chugalug_
  42. Article is discussing a Core i7 6950X CPU

    But as it discusses (I am going with single GPU example) IF you are downscaling footage i.e. 8K-->4K then the more powerful card does show some benefit with the 12GB Titan X > 1080 > 980ti > 1070 > 1060

    So I think the 1080TI would be of benefit for the future so I can throw money somewhere else in the future rather than upgrading the GPU. or at least 1080 if not a TI.

    Top graph on image below
    https://www.pugetsystems.com/pic_disp.php?id=40577&width=646

    "However, we did see a big difference when we scaled the RED 6K footage down to 4K. "
    <b> "this does suggest that a more powerful video card is more likely to be beneficial if you export to a lower resolution than your source footage."</b>
    Reply to ScrappeyDP
  43. "So if that's the workflow, you can put together a build with a Ryzen 7 1700 OC'd to 3.9 or 4Ghz, 32GB of nice fast RAM, an SSD and storage drive, two capture cards and maybe even a 4K display for $2000. "

    I don't want to go all the way down to a 1060, but if you can put a build together like that with a 1070/1080 I would consider it. because I guess I can upgrade GPU in the future. But are you sure the CPU of 1700 instead of 1800X or 1700X is a good choice? don't I at least need the X to overclock? ...

    rhysiam said:
    The_Staplergun said:
    I'm just gonna hop on this train real quick and say that I'm 100% certain that the equipment he needs and wants is well over 2k.

    You're not going to get what you're looking for with 2k.

    My build was $2500 with all the flashy lights. You can drop I'd say $250 for all the rgb crap and you're still over budget with components that only partially cover the bases, as you're asking for quite a hefty system for larger workloads than a video game.

    But this is the point I'm making. OP doesn't want to game - from what I can tell - so then the GPU choice depends entirely on the workflow. For example, if OP is working in Premiere Pro from 4K RED footage and exporting to either 4K or 1080P h.264, a GTX 1060 is equally as competent as a $1000 Titan X (Pascal).

    So if that's the workflow, you can put together a build with a Ryzen 7 1700 OC'd to 3.9 or 4Ghz, 32GB of nice fast RAM, an SSD and storage drive, two capture cards and maybe even a 4K display for $2000.

    Obviously if OP's workflow really demands a 1080ti, then things are going to be much more difficult. But that's the question that needs answering before we can put a build together.
    Reply to ScrappeyDP
  44. Let's go with the premise that my workflow is Premiere Pro CC 4K-->4K H.264 NOW, with a near future 8K-->4K workflow

    "Conclusion"

    In most situations, there is no need to use a dual GPU configuration.
    When exporting, a faster GPU is more likely to give you a performance benefit if your source footage is a higher resolution than the export resolution.
    Generating previews saw the biggest variance between the different GPU models with 1080p footage. ProRes 4K also saw a benefit, but all the others (H.264 4K, CineForm 4K, RED 4K, and RED 6K) saw virtually no difference in the time it took to generate previews with the different video cards.

    ***Keep in mind that the more GPU accelerated effects you use, the larger the difference between each of the models we tested should become - so if you tend to use a lot of the accelerated effects the GTX 1080 and Titan X should provide an even larger benefit than what we showed in this article.**

    ^ so due to the above YES, the more powerful GPU is a desire of mine. because I continue to expand my effects skills and toolsets
    Reply to ScrappeyDP
  45. ScrappeyDP said:
    Article is discussing a Core i7 6950X CPU

    But as it discusses (I am going with single GPU example) IF you are downscaling footage i.e. 8K-->4K then the more powerful card does show some benefit with the 12GB Titan X > 1080 > 980ti > 1070 > 1060

    So I think the 1080TI would be of benefit for the future so I can throw money somewhere else in the future rather than upgrading the GPU. or at least 1080 if not a TI.

    Top graph on image below
    https://www.pugetsystems.com/pic_disp.php?id=40577&width=646

    "However, we did see a big difference when we scaled the RED 6K footage down to 4K. "
    <b> "this does suggest that a more powerful video card is more likely to be beneficial if you export to a lower resolution than your source footage."</b>

    Right, but just remember that GPUs get better allll the time AND, different programs and versions of programs play better with different hardware. So if you're unsure what your long term workflow will be, or it might be a year or two before you start working with 6K or 8K source material, you may well be better off actually getting the 1060 for now, which as you can see is absolutely fine for most workflows, and then once you've got higher end source material and a finalised workflow, then making a targeted upgrade to the specific hardware that'll best meet your needs. Nvidia usually has their $350-$450 xx70 card matching their previous gen flagship. So you will probably find that a 1170 (or whatever it is that's out by the time you get your higher res source material) matches the 1080ti, for much less money.

    Obviously for gaming the 1080ti is superior, especially if you hope to game at 4K. But I usually would NOT recommend someone spend $600+ on a GPU on the basis (in your words), "there is a chance I will game if I have the power to do so, but..."

    I just wonder whether, by dropping to a 1060, you could likely deck out the machine with a reasonable 4K display, get your quality capture cards and everything else you need. If you find with future workloads that your GPU is running 100%, then upgrade it.

    Anyway, up to you of course. It's just that there aren't that many Premiere workloads that actually utilise those high end GPUs
    Reply to rhysiam
  46. I think the build @Chugalug_ posted originally with the 1800X is more along the lines of what I am looking for. And then we/I can choose a monitor separately. I'm willing to sacrifice storage for speed and power or more RAM or quiet.

    But yes the Live streaming and capturing is important to me. and if CUDA accelerates premiere's work I will enable and take advantage of it.
    Reply to ScrappeyDP
  47. So yes, your logic does make sense with regards to my current workflow, EXCEPT for the live streaming and capturing part. Do you think a 1070/1080 can handle the load?


    Let's say I have a soundcard plugged in Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 USB, and several USB webcams plugged in and/or a downscaled 1080 signal coming from a camera while the camera and 2 other capture in 4K. All those 4K files get later synchronized and edited in premiere, but the LIVE stream comes in and goes out concurrently. either out the Network cable or out a Wifi network. Preferably cable depending on location and availability. So I need for it to handle that 3x 1080 capture + sound concurrent input workload NOW, like the day I build it if possible. And to be able to edit and render 4K Multicam files with effects NOW.
    Reply to ScrappeyDP
  48. The GPU doesn't handle live streaming, that's the CPU and the thing as 16 threads.
    Hell, a 4 thread Intel i5 7500 can handle streaming well.

    I don't know what capture cards you want though, that's up to you to decide and that's clearly your area of expertise, I won't pretend I know what to look for to meet your specs. :)
    The only difference between the 1800x and the 1700 is slightly lower clock speeds, you'll barely notice a difference, dw.
    Reply to Chugalug_
  49. Well I'm no expert on internal cards. I know Epiphan AVIO cards are excellent external USB cards. But I wouldn't know about adding one to this build unless I went external.

    For me it's not just about sending out a stream, but also capturing from multiple sources 3x 1080 while chromaing the background and applying graphics and sending that upstream simultaneously. So does the additional capturing fr sources and effects/overlays not require more resources?
    Reply to ScrappeyDP
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