Higher end gaming/streaming pc build help

azclown317 · Mar 7, 2017

Hey guys, long time lurker, first-ish time poster here.

I've been building/upgrading my own system since slate 90's-early 00's and Tom's has become my goto site for troubleshooting and upgrade advice. This new build is a bit of a different monster though, so I thought I'd create a thread here and see what feedback I could get. Thank you in advance to any replies and feedback.

So I've always build 'budget' systems, 'best gpu under $x' kinda builds, but now I'm looking to really step it up. Looking to get into game recording, editing, perhaps even streaming, and this is far exceeding any system I've built thus far.

;I've been looking over the 2017 best gaming builds, and I'm fine with the $1500-2500 price tag on them, but this will be my first break the bank, all in, don't screw it up, pc build. So I'm looking for advice/recommendations on specs for a system to handle all that but I'm also a little terrified of building this one.

I usually upgrade a piece or two at a time, only doing full builds a time or two and this will be my first 'all in, fry a piece and you're screwed' build. Also, I haven't built an intel system in 10-15 yrs. So, I'm also wondering if anyone knows of any custom build sites that would be worth looking into. Don't get me wrong, I really love putting my pc's together, but this is very much a shaky hands venture all around, and I'd rather not screw it up before I even get started.

Apologies if this is a redundant or ridiculous post. Any and all help/insight is very much welcome!

-Azclown

-edit;: I'm not a complete novice and will build it myself, just looking to minimize the risks for this build

cdrkf · Mar 7, 2017

azclown317 :

Well, for a gaming / streaming setup you might want to look at the new AMD Ryzen cpu's- the R7 1700 looks best of the bunch. It's not quite as fast in games as something like the i7 7700k (due to it's high clock speed)- but it's 8 core / 16 threads which means you have plenty of headroom left to run cpu based streaming / recording in the background whilst running a game or two.

Couple that with an AM4 X370 based motherboard and a decent gpu and you should have a nice rig. Given your budget you should probably be looking at something like the GTX 1080 (the new 1080ti is faster and due out soon but it's probably going to be very expensive).

As for building the pc- modern machines are pretty easy to put together from either company (Intel now put the pins on the motherboard rather than on the cpu but so long as you align the cpu correctly is easy to install, AMD the pins are still on the cpu so it's what you're already used to).

Supahos · Mar 7, 2017

What games are you planning to stream? Desired resolution? Do you need a monitor for that resolution? The ryzen chips don't compete with Intel in terms of raw fps performance but on your budget at 1440p or 4k they can make a hell of a streaming rig.

A 7700k is better for just gaming or streaming things like LoL no matter the resolution.

azclown317 · Mar 7, 2017

Wow! Thank you so much for the quick responses!

@cdrkf Thank you. Do you think going the AMD route would be sustainable in the long term? From the little I know, intel has been better for higher end machines. If I go that route would I end up having to rebuild to an intel system in the near future to keep up?

@Supahos Was just refreshing the page before updating that I will indeed need to add a new monitor to the rig. Mostly played at 60-90 fps so this will be a huge change for me, lol. As for games, main one I'm playing atm that I'd be recording is Overwatch, though I do play a little bit of everything. Also, thank you as well for the quick reply.

cdrkf · Mar 7, 2017

azclown317 :

AMD were behind after the launch of the FX series back in 2011- however Ryzen has *just* come out and it doesn't suffer from the same performance deficit that FX did. Here's the link to Toms review:
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/amd-ryzen-7-1800x-cpu,review-33811.html

Note that is the much more expensive 1800X- all the reports I've read state than the 1700 (which is £200 cheaper) can be overclocked to match the 1800X. Note that even in single threaded tests Ryzen is fairly competitive. Honestly I don't see you needing to rebuild- the Ryzen cpu's are pretty close to Intel's high end 8 core parts for less than half the cost, and whilst they're behind in games they aren't really *that far* behind- I actually think they will get a bit better going forward as well. They don't suffer the same 'Achilles heel' as the FX parts did.

Edit: Games Nexus Ryzen 7 1700 review:
http://www.gamersnexus.net/hwreviews/2827-amd-r7-1700-review-amd-competes-with-its-1800x

Supahos · Mar 7, 2017

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i7-7700K 4.2GHz Quad-Core Processor ($338.77 @ OutletPC)
CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D15S 82.5 CFM CPU Cooler ($89.19 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: MSI Z270 GAMING PRO CARBON ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($164.89 @ OutletPC)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws V Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-2666 Memory ($99.97 @ Jet)
Storage: Samsung 960 Evo 250GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive ($129.99 @ B&H)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($69.89 @ OutletPC)
Case: Fractal Design Define R5 w/Window (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case ($89.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Power Supply: SeaSonic 650W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($76.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 10 Home OEM 64-bit ($88.58 @ OutletPC)
Monitor: Samsung U28E590D 28.0" 3840x2160 60Hz Monitor ($384.99 @ Jet)
Other: 1080ti ($700.00)
Total: $2233.25
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-03-07 10:26 EST-0500

Have a 1080ti custom priced in it'll release this week and Nvidia claims a $700 pricetag

I will build a ryzen rig next and add pros/cons of the two on it.

Supahos · Mar 7, 2017

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: AMD RYZEN 7 1700 3.0GHz 8-Core Processor ($328.99 @ SuperBiiz)
CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D15S 82.5 CFM CPU Cooler ($89.19 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: Asus PRIME X370-PRO ATX AM4 Motherboard ($162.98 @ Newegg)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws V Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-2666 Memory ($99.97 @ Jet)
Storage: Samsung 960 Evo 250GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive ($129.99 @ B&H)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($69.89 @ OutletPC)
Case: Fractal Design Define R5 w/Window (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case ($89.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Power Supply: SeaSonic 650W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($76.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 10 Home OEM 64-bit ($88.58 @ OutletPC)
Monitor: Samsung U28E590D 28.0" 3840x2160 60Hz Monitor ($384.99 @ Jet)
Other: 1080ti ($700.00)
Total: $2221.56
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-03-07 10:28 EST-0500

Okay here we go.

The top build will absolutely get more fps in overwatch no matter the resolution. However at 4k the difference is basically zero as the GPU is the holdup not the CPU.

The top build will run most games at more fps than the bottom one. The bottom build would stream even the most demanding games even with a decent amount of editing being done while streaming without losing any gaming performance.

The bottom build should perform better and better over time. The 7700k will perform the same going forward. Either build should do an awesome job

azclown317 · Mar 7, 2017

@cdrkf I honestly haven't kept up that well which is why I'm here. I'm an FX user currently and have since been of the mindset that AMD is the quality 'budget' build and Intel is for higher end rigs. So to hear that may not be the case now is great as I've had nothing negative to say about my past few AMD processors. I'll definitely read up on the Ryzen. Thank you so much, again.

@Supahos Holy crap you're quick! Thats's a sexy looking rig and I greatly appreciate you throwing in the monitor! Quick question as I've not done any streaming/recording/editing much thus far; would a ssd for main storage make any significant difference? i.e. would playing on an ssd but recording to an hdd bottleneck performance?

cdrkf · Mar 7, 2017

Supahos :

Both solid builds (if you wanted to save a bit of money I think you could cope fine with a slightly slower gpu, GTX 1080, GTX 1070 or even a 980ti / Fury X are worth looking at- I'm not recommending any other AMD boards as they don't have anything in the high end this generation *yet*- the new 'Vega' gpu should be out in May if you aren't in a rush though I doubt it will be much faster than a 1080).

For me personally, I think the Ryzen build is the way to go- if you look at the rendering / encoding performance vis a vis the 7700k you can see how much potential there is in that cpu. It should certainly be able to handle any game + streaming load you throw at it, although as Shpahos points out you will sacrifice a bit in the way of maximum fps on current titles. That said if you fancy an Intel build the 7700k is a potent processor so you can't go far wrong either way.

Supahos · Mar 7, 2017

I dropped a 4k monitor on him if you want to stick with 1440p a 1080 (in a week or two when prices fall) is a great alternative. If you're interested in 4k the 1080ti is worth every penny

azclown317 · Mar 7, 2017

That's great to hear as I've been an AMD user for a long time and love the idea of staying with them. One other random thing, as I'm currently unsure of the logistics of it; Aside from Overwatch and modern games, I'm heavily considering doing a 'throwback' series with old school console games, on systems like the original NES and Genesis. I recognize that'd take some adapter work and setup but would that change anything in the overall build?

edit: It'll be a couple weeks most likely before I can actually put this all together (waiting on taxes) so I think I'll wait for the 1080ti

cdrkf · Mar 7, 2017

azclown317 :

Well if you want to run those you can just use a free emulator and run them on your PC...? Or do you mean you want to hook up an original Nes or Genesis to the screen?

azclown317 · Mar 7, 2017

Ideally I'd like to hook up the actual console. Started gaming Christmas when the NES first came out so I'd like to keep it authentic

Supahos · Mar 7, 2017

A tv is the best bet for that since the NES ran through the cable if I remember correctly (I'm 33 so I had one but it's been a while) just do it on another screen from you gaming setup. I'm sure there are coaxial to other setups that exist but the results may be iffy

azclown317 · Mar 7, 2017

Well, I'll burn that bridge when I get to it, gotta build the bridge first right? Again, thanksd you both so much! Never expected to get answers this quickly which is why I put this up a couple weeks ahead of time. A couple final questions and I'll quit bugging you guys.

-ssd vs hdd for recording/editing drive?
-Any ideas on a custom build site? (only ever fried one piece but still nervous about this one)
-Water cooling? (not gonna touch if I build myself but am curious)

Supahos · Mar 7, 2017

1) ssds are the only way to go for the editing drive newer CPUs can flood a HD and slow down because it can't keep up. You can change my build to a 500gb version for around $100-120 more if I remember correctly

2)all custom build sites just sells specs, meaning there is no guarantee of what is inside. I'd hate to build a $2500 rig (easily that price if someone else builds it) and have them shove a crap power supply or motherboard in it and hurt the quality.

3)I hate water-cooling. I bet less than 20% of recent builds have one but I also bet 75% of the "oh no i have high temps" threads are from water-cooled setups. A pump/tubing/waterblock are 3 more points of failure that you can't actually see that an air-cooled setup doesn't have. Most people also forget a water cooler is just an air cooler that cools water. So in essence you're just adding another step.

cdrkf · Mar 7, 2017

Supahos :

Just to add my 2c, though in general I agree with Supahos...
1: Yeah you need SSD for that type of task. They are just *so much* faster

2: Well in the UK I have a company who I'm happy with for custom build: https://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/ (they let you specify the motherboard, case and PSU make / model, albeit from a limited selection however you know 100% what you are going to get which is nice- they even let you *customize laptop builds* which is how I know them, got myself a very nice workstation laptop for a lot less than a standard machine from one of the major oems).
I gather you are in USA though so probably not much help

3: I've actually had good experience with the simple closed loop water coolers- I have an FX 8320 and I had a real job keeping the thing cool enough to prevent throttling. The issue was airflow in my case and the advantage a clc cooler gives is it ejects the hot air out the back. It's true though you can match the cooling performance with an air cooler if you have good airflow in the case with a few case fans. It's also worth noting that both Ryzen and the i7 7700K are both much more heat efficient chips than FX so I can't imagine you'll have need for water cooling with either setup.

azclown317 · Mar 7, 2017

okay, so on points 2 and 3: i'll nut up and build myself shouldn't be too much of an issue. Water cooling was just a thought but always seemed more of a hassle. glad to hear it's not a necessity.

As for 1, I'm going to be running a main ssd no question. I was wondering if having another ssd for the secondary drive made much difference taking recording and streaming into account.

Thanks again though guys!

edit: I'll use most of the main drive for games as I play a lot of them. Currently 110ish games on steam and I have to delete some to play others from time to time

Supahos · Mar 7, 2017

Could go with a 120gb m2 SSD for boot/main drive and a 1tb SATA SSD for the rest of you choose. I will say when I ran out of room on my 250gb SSD
I quit playing games on my HD because I was spoiled lol

azclown317 · Mar 7, 2017

lol. What I mean to ask is would there be a significant difference if I used another ssd instead of an hdd

edit: for recording editing purposes. i.e. would playing and recording to an hdd slow me down significantly?

Supahos · Mar 7, 2017

I'm saying I might as well take my hard drive out. I won't use anything on it because the extra load time ticks me off. The only thing I'd miss would be like wedding photos and stuff like that. The rest of it I don't use anymore anyway. I'd buy enough SSD to hold any program you run more than once a year, and only store files like photos/videos/documents on a platter drive.

azclown317 · Mar 7, 2017

oh! well this is soley a gaming rig for this purpose. Literally nothing else but web browsing will go on it. So should I just scrap the second drive and go for a bigger initial ssd instead?

Supahos · Mar 7, 2017

Maybe in that case take the 120/250 GB 960evo and bit cheaper SATA SSD for the rest of your storage

azclown317 · Mar 7, 2017

Sorry I've worded this poorly. I have a ton of games I usually delete and add based on what I'm playing at the time. Was thinking of recording in real time to the secondary hd which is why I was asking. Just to alleviate the deleting/reinstalling of games. But if that's not optimal then I can definitely work around.

cdrkf · Mar 7, 2017

azclown317 :

I guess it depends at what resolution / frame rate you want to record at. I did some work with a company for recording high frame rate video and basically even with a pair of 10,000 rpm high performance HDD's in a raid array it struggled to record the data fast enough. If you are only interested at say 1080p 30fps then a good mechanical drive might be fine though. It's when you go for something higher- 1080p 60fps, or 4k 30fps that the amount of data being generated will be higher than the throughput of the drive.

I'd probably say using a second drive to record to makes sense to me (as what you don't want is the videos eating all your swap space on the main drive causing your machine to grind to a halt). I'd just say if you can afford it you'd be better off going 2 x ssd rather than ssd + hdd (though the latter has the advantage of large amounts of storage space- maybe a 3rd hdd to store the vids after recording would be a good idea, or possible a NAS solution?)...

Higher end gaming/streaming pc build help

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