New build guidance wanted

mkc1911

Prominent
Mar 11, 2017
4
0
510
Hello! This is my first post here after lurking for several months.

My wife wants a new computer for her photography business / our home office. Her usage will be heavily based around Photoshop and its related software as well as spreadsheet work. Home use will be the basic stuff as well as some moderate gaming. We will have a 1440p monitor. Multitasking capability is appreciated because as of right now, when Photoshop is running its processes, the computer is basically unusable until its done.

We currently have an old MacBook Pro with the (now ancient) Intel i5 520M 2.4Ghz chip.

My main question is what CPU and chip set to get? Which CPU would have a better future proof outlook? ( i7 7700k or a Ryzen 7 flavor)

My current thoughts are that the Intel chip provides great single thread performance and lags behind the AMD on multi threaded stuff. Intel is well supported and very stable at this point and Ryzen is new, has a few bugs, and needs some more time to get worked out. The better gaming performance that Intel has currently is not all that important to us as gaming is not as high a priority.

However, Intel will likely be moving away from the 1151 socket soon where as AMD has plans for several years on the AM4. Should a new/better AMD chip come out, upgrading would be easier.
The future path of AMD looks promising because we need this system to last another 5 years or so before we need another major upgrade. Also hopefully more cores will be taken advantage of by developers in the future so the Ryzen might eventually get more mainstream support.

Basically it looks like i7 7700k offers more power and stability right now but with very limited upgrade potential and Ryzen is slightly behind and less stable? but with a hopefully brighter future both with programming and future socket plans.

Sorry for the wall of text. If you need any other info just ask. My wife wants to make sure we have a solid plan before I can pull the trigger on the parts list.

By the way our budget is around $1800 to $2000 USD not including the monitor and accessories.
 
Welcome to Toms. You have lurked well, many good points for consideration in choosing a build.

Based on your description of usage and budget, I would say Ryzen is the way to go here. Although the single core speeds are not as good as Intel, your usage will take advantage of multi-core processing which the new Ryzen chips excel at. $1800-2000 (USD?) is a significant budget so we won't have a problem there. So we have
CPU: Chose the Ryzen 7 1800X over the i7-6850X, cheaper and has a better multi-core performance.
=2966&cmp[]=2800&cmp[]=2874]https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare.php?cmp[]=2966&cmp[]=2800&cmp[]=2874

Mobo: X370 for the additional connectivity and overclocking capability
RAM: 32GB of DDR4-3000 with the ability to upgrade to 64GB (2X16GB)
Storage:
1) Very fast 250GB SSD to be used as a scratch disk
2) Fast 275GB SSD for programs and OS
3) Four 7200RPM 1TB HDD, to be set up in a software RAID 10 configuration. This will make the HDD's 4 times faster while guarding against HDD failure. To be used for file storage.
Video Card: Here I chose a GTX 1070 over the GTX 1080 and put the money into the CPU (1800X over the 1700X)
https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/GTX-1070-and-GTX-1080-Premiere-Pro-Performance-810/

PSU: Very good platinum 850W power supply which should cover any upgrades such as a second GTX 1070. If you don't have any expansion/upgrade plans then this 650W will do
https://pcpartpicker.com/product/fdZQzy/fsp-group-power-supply-pt650m

Let me know if you need tweaks, explanations or more options

PCPartPicker part list: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/j7K8Cy
Price breakdown by merchant: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/j7K8Cy/by_merchant/

CPU: AMD RYZEN 7 1800X 3.6GHz 8-Core Processor ($498.99 @ SuperBiiz)
CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-L9a 33.8 CFM CPU Cooler ($38.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: MSI X370 GAMING PRO CARBON ATX AM4 Motherboard ($179.99 @ B&H)
Memory: G.Skill TridentZ Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR4-3000 Memory ($214.97 @ Jet)
Storage: Samsung 960 Evo 250GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive ($129.99 @ B&H)
Storage: Crucial MX300 275GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive ($89.88 @ OutletPC)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($46.88 @ OutletPC)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($46.88 @ OutletPC)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($46.88 @ OutletPC)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($46.88 @ OutletPC)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 1070 8GB SC GAMING ACX 3.0 Black Edition Video Card ($379.99 @ Jet)
Case: Corsair 200R ATX Mid Tower Case ($55.98 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA P2 850W 80+ Platinum Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($138.14 @ Jet)
Optical Drive: Asus DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS DVD/CD Writer ($18.88 @ OutletPC)
Total: $1933.32
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-03-12 12:42 EDT-0400
 

mkc1911

Prominent
Mar 11, 2017
4
0
510
Thanks for the list! That's really close to what I had picked out in my little test build scenario actually.

Since the 1700 seems to overclock to 1800x levels anyway, could I just save some cash there? Or is there some other hidden benefits to the 1800x (better binning, higher possible clocks down the road?)

Also thought about an AIO water cooler for the CPU.

I have about $200 or so I can throw in towards the build on top of the current wife-approved budget so I thought about sneaking in the 1080 over the 1070 for better game performance when I do get to play on it lol.
 
First, you are most welcome. Us married guys have to stick together you know.

The general rule for assessing component importance for video editing/animation is

CPU>>RAM>>Storage>>GPU (which is different compared to gaming GPU>>CPU>>RAM>>Storage)

So any downgrading of the CPU affects your most important component. Here is a comparison of CPU's based upon price and PassMark score. It lists the three Ryzen chips and the 7700K along with the i7-6950X which is the most powerful video editing processor out there.


    ■ CPU : Price : PassMark Score
    ■ 1700 : $328.89 : 13769
    ■ i7-7700K : $329.99 : 12312
    ■ 1700X : $398.99 : 14472
    ■ 1800X : $498.99 : 15518
    ■ i7-6950X : $1618.99 : 19970


You could drop down to the 1700X and save yourself $100 without a huge hit to performance.
http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/AMD-Ryzen-7-1800X-vs-AMD-Ryzen-7-1700X/3916vs3915

For cooling my suggestion is that unless you go to an AIO of 240mm or greater, stick with air cooling. It works just as well and has fewer problems/longer life.

For the GPU upgrade, go find a GTX 1080 Ti, they are much faster than the plain 1080 and don't cost much more.

To add a AIO we will need to change the case. This build uses the 1700X, a 280mm AIO,a new case and a GTX1080 Ti.

PCPartPicker part list: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/3rVcjc
Price breakdown by merchant: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/3rVcjc/by_merchant/

CPU: AMD RYZEN 7 1700X 3.4GHz 8-Core Processor ($398.99 @ SuperBiiz)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master MasterLiquid Pro 280 64.2 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler ($99.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: MSI X370 GAMING PRO CARBON ATX AM4 Motherboard ($179.99 @ B&H)
Memory: G.Skill TridentZ Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR4-3000 Memory ($214.97 @ Jet)
Storage: Samsung 960 Evo 250GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive ($129.99 @ B&H)
Storage: Crucial MX300 275GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive ($89.88 @ OutletPC)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($46.88 @ OutletPC)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($46.88 @ OutletPC)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($46.88 @ OutletPC)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($46.88 @ OutletPC)
Video Card: MSI GeForce GTX 1080 Ti 11GB Founders Edition Video Card ($699.99 @ B&H)
Case: Fractal Design Define R5 (Titanium) ATX Mid Tower Case ($89.99 @ NCIX US)
Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA P2 850W 80+ Platinum Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($138.14 @ Jet)
Optical Drive: Asus DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS DVD/CD Writer ($18.88 @ OutletPC)
Total: $2248.33
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-03-13 10:02 EDT-0400
 
I am about to do an about face. Appears that for plain photoshop work that in fact Ryzen is not the way to go, the i7-7700K is the way to go.

https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Adobe-Photoshop-CC-2017-AMD-Ryzen-7-1700X-1800X-Performance-907/

You might want to look for deals, here is the revised build. Because there was problems with the number of Sata ports I dropped the scratch drive and up'ed your RAM to 64GB. Other option is to drop the m.2 SSD interface and go with a SATA 6GB/s scratch drive but I was looking for speed here.

PCPartPicker part list: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/d3wzjc
Price breakdown by merchant: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/d3wzjc/by_merchant/

CPU: Intel Core i7-7700K 4.2GHz Quad-Core Processor ($329.99 @ B&H)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master MasterLiquid Pro 280 64.2 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler ($99.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: Asus PRIME Z270-A ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($162.98 @ Newegg)
Memory: G.Skill TridentZ Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR4-3000 Memory ($214.97 @ Jet)
Memory: G.Skill TridentZ Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR4-3000 Memory ($214.97 @ Jet)
Storage: Crucial MX300 275GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($92.84 @ SuperBiiz)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($46.88 @ OutletPC)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($46.88 @ OutletPC)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($46.88 @ OutletPC)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($46.88 @ OutletPC)
Video Card: MSI GeForce GTX 1080 Ti 11GB Founders Edition Video Card ($699.99 @ B&H)
Case: Fractal Design Define R5 (Titanium) ATX Mid Tower Case ($89.99 @ NCIX US)
Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA P2 850W 80+ Platinum Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($138.14 @ Jet)
Optical Drive: Asus DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS DVD/CD Writer ($18.88 @ OutletPC)
Total: $2250.26
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-03-13 10:34 EDT-0400
 


I'm not sure of the point of having a 1080ti in there for PHOTOGRAPHY. Manipulating 2D images doesn't require a super strong GPU. (or any GPU really)

This alone would be a massive uprade from what your Wife was using, and it'll be easier for you to build yourself as it will be less finicky.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i7-7700 3.6GHz Quad-Core Processor ($295.49 @ SuperBiiz)
CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-L9i 33.8 CFM CPU Cooler ($37.88 @ OutletPC) (This is much quieter and better at cooling than the intel stock CPU fan)
Motherboard: ASRock B250M Pro4 Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($77.98 @ Newegg)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws V Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR4-3000 Memory ($189.97 @ Jet) (the cheapest 32gb ram kit, but still probably better than what you can use)
Storage: Samsung 850 EVO 120GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive ($78.75 @ Amazon) (this is the scratch disk for photoshop)
Storage: Crucial MX300 525GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($148.49 @ OutletPC) (this is the OS and program disk)
Storage: Western Digital WD Black 4TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($179.99 @ Amazon) (these are your storage drives, configure them into a RAID 1 configuration so the data is mirrored on both drives, giving you a backup incase one drive dies.)
Storage: Western Digital WD Black 4TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($179.99 @ Amazon)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 1050 2GB ACX 2.0 Video Card ($105.99 @ SuperBiiz) (This is really just to take the load of running the monitor off the CPU so it can run photoshop at full strength.)
Case: Cooler Master Silencio 352 MicroATX Mini Tower Case ($55.99 @ Amazon) (A case focused on keeping the sound inside so you're not bothered by the sound of it crunching data for photos)
Power Supply: SeaSonic X Series Fanless 460W 80+ Platinum Certified Fully-Modular Fanless ATX Power Supply ($109.99 @ B&H) (This thing has a 7 year warranty so it basically will never die or cause problems for you, and it also doesn't need a fan so it will help keep things quiet)
Optical Drive: Pioneer BDR-209DBK Blu-Ray/DVD/CD Writer ($59.88 @ OutletPC) (a Blu-Ray burner (and CD/DVD burner) incase your wife has to burn any photo dvds or blurays if she were asked too)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 10 Home Full - USB 32/64-bit ($106.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Total: $1627.38
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-03-13 11:04 EDT-0400

This is all pretty high end, you may not need 4 TBs of on system data storage, but you may, as uncompressed photos (and the fact that you take many more than you really need to "keep" to get the right shot) take up a lot of space.
 
I'm not sure of the point of having a 1080ti in there for PHOTOGRAPHY. Manipulating 2D images doesn't require a super strong GPU. (or any GPU really)

You are correct, no real need for a 1080 Ti for photo editing, even a 1050 Ti would be fine.

https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Photoshop-CC-2017-NVIDIA-GeForce-GPU-Performance-899/

The GPU was added at posters request for gaming. Even if it is finicky, the performance and performance per dollar for the 1080 Ti I feel makes it worth while. And two other points here. One, while the GPU is currently not that important to Photoshop performance that may change in the future as developers take more advantage of the GPU. Second, GPU's with larger amounts of VRAM do help with performance.

This is all pretty high end, you may not need 4 TBs of on system data storage, but you may, as uncompressed photos (and the fact that you take many more than you really need to "keep" to get the right shot) take up a lot of space.
The choice of 4 X 1TB HDD was dictated by these consideration. Poster states his wife has a photography business so the chances are that she will need a fair amount of storage. I wondered if 4TB was enough. Next, the drives were put into a RAID 10 configuration which requires a min of 4 drives. RAID 10 was chosen as it provides both striping and mirroring so you would see a 4 times increase in the HDD speeds and the data would be protected against a drive failure. This will be a blessing if you have to transfer large files directly from the camera to the HDD. Raid 1 does not provide any increase in speed, just data protection through mirroring.
 


Uhh, have you ever had raided drives?
The speed increase is nowhere near linear at all.
At best it's like a 1.5X improvement.

Raid 10 is nice because it would allow you hot swap the drives. (but you wouldn't really do that in a desktop PC environment), but it also only gives you 2TBs of storage, which may be enough, but somehow I doubt it.

I chose large Blacks for the better warranty.

In his original post, he says gaming is NOT important to them.



 

mkc1911

Prominent
Mar 11, 2017
4
0
510
Thanks for the discussion guys! Really has us thinking about long term photo storage.

I think 2-4 TB of actual HD storage would be fine. My thought was that a RAID 1 with two 2TB HD's would be sufficient. She regularly backs up photos onto an external drive anyway. We can simply buy another external drive, offload the files onto it, and gain HD space back when needed. She only has about 1TB of pictures on the HD at any time during the year. As things get older than a year, she puts them on the external.

While the gaming is not the main goal obviously, I'd like to be able to play the few games I do own or plan to own on the new 1440 165hz monitor. I'm leaning towards the 1080 right now. The 1080 TI is a little too pricey and the 1070 I have read can struggle to post good frame rates on Ultra settings at 1440.

Our main goals are:

Great Photoshop experience
Good productivity while running other tasks while Photoshopping
Reliability and Future outlook
Game performance