Need help with build (Virtualisation)

Edool14 · Mar 29, 2017

I am needing help on picking parts for a 2 gamers 1 CPU build and am thinking of using these components:

i7 7700k (4core, 8thread)

Zalman CNPS90F CPU Cooler

MSI B150A Gaming Pro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard

3x HDD (1T, 550gb)
1x SSD (250gb)

ADATA XPG Z1 16GB (4 x 4GB) DDR4-2800 Memory

Silverstone Strider 600W 80+ Silver Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply

GTX 1060 3gb
GTX 750ti 2gb

Will this be good for a cheapo? what do you guys think? Or do you have any suggestions on parts?

nzalog · Mar 29, 2017

Not sure 7700K supports VT-D which is needed for vga passthrough.

EDIT: I take it back, my old i7-3770 was purchased because the K didn't do VT-D.

It should be fine, don't know for sure until you try it. YOu will also need to PCIE usb cards to passthrough mouse and keyboard if using ESXI.

Chugalug_ · Mar 29, 2017

You can't run two PCs off a single rig, not possible without multiple individual outputs or a tonne of cash since you'd need two 1070s.
Don't watch the LTT video on it and assume its something that can be completed on a low budget.
If you want two PCs I can put them together for around 800-1k.

nzalog · Mar 29, 2017

Chugalug_ :

That's nonsense.
2x dual core vms with their own video cards and their own usb cards would work.

Chugalug_ · Mar 29, 2017

You can't do that unless you're SLIng, and no low end cards even support that which I why I stated it isn't possible unless you invest more cash.
You can theoretically try, but I doubt its gonna happen with that budget unless you get last gen cards and a Z series board which supports multiple video cards in a motherboard.
Just seems like a much more cost effective and better performing option to get two separate PCs, way less hassle.

nzalog · Mar 29, 2017

Chugalug_ :

As long as the board supports VT-D (which I can't tell as most manufactures don't advertise that) and it can run ESXi, you can do it. This is not for the faint of heart though as it requires some knowledge with ESXi or possible KVM if you go the linux route. You'd need 4 PCIE slots (no SLI). You build two VMs and pass the a video card and usb card into each VM. I run a setup with a single video card to one vm and a SAS card to a NAS VM. There is no reason why two video cards would not work.

One problem you run into is nvidia blocks their drivers from working in VMs so you need to add a setting called: "hypervisor.cpuid.v0 = "FALSE"" to the VMs which have nvidia cards attached. But both my 750ti in my office and my 1050gtx work being passed through to a VM and run as if they were running on bare metal..

USAFRet · Mar 29, 2017

"2 gamers 1 CPU build "

The issue here is not 2 x VMs...that is no problem.

The issue is trying to manage 2 x control sets...mouse/keyboard/monitor...talking to two instances of a game and OS.

schwatzz · Mar 29, 2017

If it is possible, maybe wait until April 11 to get a Ryzen 5 with 6 cores and 12 threads or you can get a Ryzen 7 1700 (8 cores/16 threads)

Chugalug_ · Mar 29, 2017

USAFRet :

That's my concern, as well as the GPU side of things.
CPU allocation is no problem, but I have quite limited knowledge in actually setting up dual VMs for gaming.

rhysiam · Mar 29, 2017

I know this is possible, I've seen it done. BUT, it is not straightforward and unless you have really, really good reasons for attempting this, it's just not worthwhile IMHO.

For a start OP, you would really want to get a Z270 board as @Chugalug says to ensure both GPUs get x8 CPU PCIe lanes.
Everything needs to run in a hypervisor like ESXi or UnRAID (as LTT used). It's a cool concept, but PITA in actual real-world use.

You could get a pair of Pentium G4560s and B250 boards going for a combined total of $250 for two separate dual core, four thread CPUs systems... that's far less than the 7700K even before you add the mobo. RAM, GPUs, peripherals and Windows Licenses would need to be doubled anyway, so all you'd need to duplicate is storage, PSU and cases, which could easily be had for the money you've saved on the CPU & motherboards. In other words you could get two separate systems for the same or even slightly less money and avoid the VT-D quagmire.

If you feel like a massive challenge, by all means give it a shot. But you need to know what you're getting yourself in for.

USAFRet · Mar 29, 2017

I see this request a lot.

Here's a challenge for anyone reading this:

Build and document exactly how to multiseat a gaming system.
System Budget: $1,500 (including everything except monitor/keyboard/rodents)

This system will allow 2 people to play 2 games (same or different) from a single motherboard. Might even be a dual CPU...don't care.
One motherboard.

I've seen too many comments of "Oh yeah...you can do this, its easy".
Or simply talking about VM's.
Or even worse, linking to Linus's multi thousand $$ system for this.

$1,500
What hardware, what software, what procedures.
Pics, and maybe even video.
Something that a random schmoe can follow.

Do this, and at the very least you'll have a long lasting tutorial that we can all link to.

rhysiam · Mar 29, 2017

schwatzz :

It sounds like VT-D on Ryzen is a bit of a mess right now. It's hard to find solid info but here's a video exploring it. I think Ryzen CPUs are looking great for more general virtualisation tasks, but VT-D support can be flaky on established Intel platforms, attempting it on the brand new Ryzen platform would be foolhardy to say the least IMHO.

KB+Mouse passthrough is not difficult on most hypervisors. And if you have issues, VT-D with a USB controller is much more stable and "standard", allowing you to give the guest OS direct hardware access to to it's own USB controller and thus connected peripherals. That's really not the problem.

The challenge is VT-D with a GPUs. It has nothing to do with SLI as VT-D passes the hardware directly to a VM guest, making it inaccessible on boot to the host OS (a hypervisor like UnRAID or ESXi). Ibelieve anyone who has tried it (myself included) will tell you, it can be done with the right hardware and a bit of luck, but it's not straightforward.

nzalog · Mar 29, 2017

USAFRet :

Nope one said easy, but it's possible. If someone asking to do this I'm assuming they have some prior experience with virtualization. I'm answering the question and will be happy that answer future questions if he runs into road blocks. Going into this blind (not knowing anything about ESXi or KVM) is a bit ill advised but still possible. We'd get to that point where we start to talk about these types of details if people actually provide correct info and not just muck things up they have no experience with.

USAFRet · Mar 29, 2017

Not necessarily in this particular thread, but I've seen many, many who assume it is pretty easy (or possible), and then replies saying it is easy (or possible).

I'm still waiting for someone to earn everlasting fame for documenting how to do this.

nzalog · Mar 29, 2017

It's a pretty steep learning curve if you don't know how to work with ESXi... and it can be very frustrating even if you do. There is a ton of information all over google how to do passthrough to one VM. There is no big trick to doing a second one outside of having the available PCIE slots.

The high level jist of it...
-VM 1-
2vCPU
8GB RAM (fully reserved)
*VT-D to a Physical Video card
*VT-D to Physical USB card

-VM 2-
2vCPU
8GB RAM (fully reserved)
*VT-D to a Physical Video card <-- on both VMs the video card only activates video output after driver is installed on the VM OS
*VT-D to Physical USB card <-- anything you plug into this goes all the way down to whatever OS you're running on the VM

Anyways I'll be happy to help along the way but there could potentially be a lot of roadblocks to getting a successful build. It's up there with building a hackintosh but probably a bit more complicated because at least with a hackingtosh there are now a lot of tools to help with it.

rhysiam · Mar 29, 2017

nzalog :

Well said. SLI, KB & Mouse issues are really unhelpful misinformation.

Not necessarily in this particular thread, but I've seen many, many who assume it is pretty easy (or possible), and then replies saying it is easy (or possible).

I'm still waiting for someone to earn everlasting fame for documenting how to do this.

I totally agree that it would be irresponsible to suggest this is straightforward or easy. To be fair though, this is not happening in this thread. I've advised against it and @nzalog specifically stated, "This is not for the faint of heart".

The reason, I suspect, that what you're asking for hasn't been done is because it's extremely specific to both hardware and software. Perhaps I could get it working on one board with a specific ESXi build, but then MSI (or whichever board I have) brings out an updated iteration of the board and ESXi brings out an update which changes the process... or even breaks it entirely.

I've had enough experience with this to decide that I have better things to do with my life than attempt it again... though I did have success with it.
@nzalog sounds like there's a bit more experience there and a willingness to help OP if that's the route choose.

I still personally think it's not the best idea, particularly now the hyperthreaded Pentiums make it possible to get effectively half an i7 7700 for a fraction (much less than half) of the price. But let's keep the advice accurate.

nzalog · Mar 29, 2017

LOL gotta agree, going with two Pentiums would probably WAY more practical and would not require nowhere near as much expertise as it would be to set this all up. Only reason I utilize a ESXi host with PCIE Video Passthrough is because was already running a NAS and other VMs 24/7 on ESXi. I needed a source for quality video and it just made sense to put my server next to my TV, make an HTPC VM and use PCIE passthrough to a video card from that VM. I also work with ESXi for a living...

If you set up a dual card gaming rig, it would be a pain in the ass to shutdown and power up because the software is designed to be a server platform and not a desktop. It would only make sense if the thing was on 24/7 and even then two separate systems would still be less of a headache. About the only benefit of this is the knowledge gained from doing it and being able to show people the neat things possible with the right software.

Either way I think we scared OP... =]

Edool14 · Apr 14, 2017

I am aware that this will be hard and am not going in blind I do have separate keyboards and mouses that's nothing to worry about. I am trying this as I have always wanted a desktop that's like a console where you can play with your friends on the couch with 2 TV's (that's no problem even if their monitors) I like this concept and have prior knowledge with VM's I just want to know if this system is capable of this or not and whether its possible for the CPU, motherboard and Graphics cards?

The console question: Well why not just get a console!... Because I want to play PC with my cousin and friends who cant be bothered to bring their GIANT rig across the whole city and really a console is a pc so its highly illogical to say that's what a console is for because PC can do it also. I love PC and so do heaps of people and if his was the PC normal I'm sure console wouldn't be as famous and top market because honestly they are winning this whether you disagree or not. I want to prove us PC enthusiasts can do this!

nzalog · Apr 14, 2017

How familiar are you with ESXi?

Edool14 · Apr 27, 2017

I have no prior knowledge of using ESXi but i am inclined to learn however i am capable of using unRaid. In saying of getting 2 dual core pcs i want a pc for later on to not be a pile of out dated junk that cant run games (as i currently am coding for games) it would be nice to have a beast pc that can last a few years and play 2 players. No offence for the dual cores however as they are quite good.

Need help with build (Virtualisation)

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