i7 4790K Overclocking - One core much hotter than the others

xLiqxo

Prominent
Apr 7, 2017
9
0
510
Hey everyone,

first of all, I'm new to overclocking but I'm adapting and reading a lot to not make any mistakes.

  • ■ CPU: Intel i7 4790K @ 4.3GHz / Vcore 1.125V Adaptive + 0.025 Offset / Vin 1.55V
    ■ Cooler: Thermalright HR-02 Macho Rev. A - Air Cooler
    ■ MB: Z97 Extreme4
    ■ GPU: Geforce GTX 980 Ti - not overclocked
    ■ RAM: 2x 8GB Team Vulcan @ 1600MHz
    ■ Fans: 2x In (front) / 2x Out (behind and above CPU) - all bequiet ShadowWings 120mm
    ■ Power: bequiet! 450W Gold+
Now when I'm in idle, everything is okay, the cores run between 32-39°C but when I stress test with RealBench then Core 0 starts rising rather fast to around 70*C and sneaks up to 85-90°C after a few minutes. The other cores remain at 65-70°C.
While gaming CPU heavy games I even have spikes to 95-100°C...

Did I make any obvious mistakes? Could it be that the thermal compound is not well distributed? I used a small dot the size of grain of rice but did not distribute it. I did not reseat the cooler yet, should I try that?

On that note, how important is the fan above the CPU? I did not notice a significant cooling change after adding it.

Thanks!
xL
 
Monitor your voltage with something like CPUz on your second monitor to see where it lands when under heavy load. You can try to reapply the paste, couldn't hurt. Temps are far too high though, you may need to back off on the voltage.

Do you mean the side panel fan? That is mainly for providing additional cooling for the graphics card.
 

xLiqxo

Prominent
Apr 7, 2017
9
0
510

Thanks for your answer, the weird thing is, eventhough I set 1.125V as Vcore CPU-Z and HWMonitor show only 0.768V as Vcore in idle. Why is that? Can it be related to the setting "adaptive vcore voltage"? Should I go for "override"? Is that already undervolting?

I just tested again with Stock settings (BIOS Defaults) and when I run real bench three cores are (after 10min) at 65-70°C and core 0 has again spikes to 95°C. I uploaded a screenshot of the HWMonitor Voltage readouts - the max values correspond to RealBench Load. Load Voltages, Load Temps

I have two output fans - one in the back of the housing directly next to the CPU and one on top directly above the CPU. I mean the one on top.
 

OnionKing

Commendable
Jul 25, 2016
40
1
1,565
Is the thermal paste evenly applied across the CPU, it could be that you have bubbles in the paste or uneven distribution, that could result in a really odd temperature reading.
 


This is what I did with my 4690K? I put a small grain rice size dab on the CPU lid. I then took the thin plastic clam-shell my CPU came in and used its thin edge to spread it evenly over the entire surface resulting in an ultrathin coating. I then repeated that step on the base of my 212 Evo. I then installed it.
 

xLiqxo

Prominent
Apr 7, 2017
9
0
510


I did redo it today and it looked pretty homogenously distributed. I re-applied the paste again and spread it out evenly and thin. Same problem but now the other 3 cores are even cooler and there's almost a 20°C difference between them and Core0.
 
If temps are changing after mounting/remounting the cooler it sounds like there might be something going on with the mounting process. 20c is pretty significant between cores under load.

What are temps at stock? Have you tried clearing the bios completely and running at default settings and comparing the temps you get? That's where I would start, clear out any of those offsets and overrides. 4.3ghz isn't really much of an overclock, the 4790k will reach 4.4ghz on a single core under full load, 4.2ghz when all 4 cores are under full load. See if the temperature variation is still present at stock settings between the cores and work on getting those closer to one another.

Make sure when mounting the cooler to tighten the screws in an "X" pattern, for example top left, bottom right, top right, bottom left and turn them just a couple turns at a time working your way around back and forth until they're all tight. That will help ensure the most flat mounting of the cooler to the cpu. Make sure nothing else is getting in the way like ram or vrm heatsinks, anything that might be 'nudging' the cooler as it's tightened down.

What are the ambient room temps? If it's 20c in the room or 30c in the room that will impact overall cooling. Here's an article with various thermal paste application techniques and some results. I usually use the 'X' pattern (without overlapping the lines to avoid a heavy glob in the center). Haven't found it necessary to spread the paste out and it shouldn't need applied to both the cpu and the base of the cooler. Greater chances of using too much. Both surfaces cleaned (ihs on the cpu and the base of the cooler) with some isopropyl rubbing alcohol and a lint free cloth, the alcohol evaporates pretty nicely leaving the surfaces clean/dry.

https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Thermal-Paste-Application-Techniques-170/

On a side note, you may want to consider a larger power supply for that system. 450w to run a 1080ti card and overclock the cpu is asking a bit much from it. Nvidia recommends 600w for a system running the 1080ti, even if you take it with a grain of salt and decided to go with a 550w it's still a noticeable amount more than 450w.
 

xLiqxo

Prominent
Apr 7, 2017
9
0
510

When I used to run OC settings I made sure I was running "All Core" and explicitely checked all Core Frequencies after OC'ing. It seemed to be right.
Right now I'm at complete stock settings with even Turbo Boost disabled and I'm still getting the 20°C difference between Core0 and the other cores.


Thanks for your detailed response. I did try running complete defaults in two variations: Turbo Boost (TB) On and TB Off. In both cases Temps differ by atleast 20°C. With TB On the general temps in RealBench are higher (Cores 1, 2 and 3 at 75-80°C and Core 0 at 100°C after just a few minutes) with TB off I can run 15min and temperatures settle at 65-70°C for Cores 1, 2, 3 and 95°C for Core 0.
Right now I'm running at stock settings and TB off because the temps improved slightly - but this is of course not a long term solution.


Not only did I do the diagonal screwing but I also applied the paste once, mounted and checked the pattern. It was very evenly spread over the whole surface of the Cooler and the CPU. Then I cleaned everything with Isopropanol and re-did it exactly they way that got me the even pattern.
I'm not sure what else I could be doing wrong during mounting but the even pattern tells me that it can't be too signifcant, right?


Room temp is between 20 and 25°C bit depending the weather of course


Yeah I figured - next on the list. But since this shouldn't cause the temp issue I want that fixed first before I start investing again.


Things I tried out so far:

  • ■ Run RealBench at complete stock settings + Turbo Boost OFF --> Core0: 90-95°C, Core 1,2,3: 65-70°C @15min
    ■ Run RealBench at complete stock settings + Turbo Boost ON --> Core0: 100°C, Core 1,2,3: 70-80°C @5min
    ■ Follow this guide on 4790K overheating -> no significant change

I'm really grateful for all the help, what else could cause a core temperature difference that high?
 
Have you tried another program to test like prime95? It may be a bit exhausting trying different things but it will help eliminate variables to determine if it's the cpu itself. If you try p95 look for version 26.6 rather than the newest and run small fft's for a steady state load for temp monitoring. Running blend will be a pain to keep an eye on temps since it's a cyclic load which will fluctuate up and down. Realbench is a decent test but more suited to stability rather than thermal testing.

You said you set everything to stock, did you reset the bios using the jumper on the mobo or by removing the cmos battery? Just double checking everything is reset to defaults.

What program are you using to read temps with? Hwinfo64 is a solid program, realtemp also does a good job.

These are only some possibilities, another could be the cpu itself. Unlike sandy bridge cpu's the ihs (metal cover of the cpu where you apply the thermal compound) isn't soldered to the top of the actual cores. There's a bit of thermal compound placed on top of the cores that gets sandwiched between the cores and the ihs on the inside. It's possible that during manufacture the thermal compound used was applied a bit heavily and just doesn't allow for optimal heat transfer on that core like with the others.

Did you buy the cpu new or used? If you bought it new and you're still within the warranty period (3yrs) you could try contacting intel and see what they have to say about it. If they think it's enough variation to warrant a replacement. They may or may not. If it's a used cpu, no dice and could be why someone was getting rid of it.

It could be a flaw in the cooler, maybe the base isn't machined flat or something is causing it to mount with uneven pressure. The only way to really confirm that is to try using other parts, a different cooler, swap out for a different cpu with the same cooler and settings in the bios, see if the results are similar or more normal.
 

xLiqxo

Prominent
Apr 7, 2017
9
0
510

I did exactly that (Prime95, 26.6, Small FFTs) and let it run for 10 minutes, this is what I got for temps using HW Monitor: Prime95 26.6 Small FFTs - Temperatures - over 30°C difference between the coolest core and Core0... I made sure that all cores were used, they were all at 100% load.


The ASRock Z97 Ex4 has a CMOS Reset Button that I used.


I bought it used but was guaranteed that no temperatures above 80°C were seen.


Sigh I feared that. I've been using this cooler for a long time (>3years) and it was doing a great job until now. The only thing major we changed was the CPU and the OC.
Before I applied the paste I actually checked for the CPU cooler plate to be even and (major) scratchless which was the case. I'm unsure if there's something wrong with the cooler but everything hints that it's not.

Thanks a lot for your support I'm slowly gettting a bit frustrated because all the obvious things don't seem to work. Do you think delidding the CPU might help?
 
I suspect a faulty sensor.

You can try contacting the motherboard manufacturer, however, they often do not reply or blame your problem on something else [improperly mounted cooler, for example]. I would link this page to them so they can see what you have done and advice given you. - - Good luck with motherboard support from the manufacturer [you might get lucky].
 

xLiqxo

Prominent
Apr 7, 2017
9
0
510

Thanks for this advice. Is there any way to test if a sensor is faulty?
 
The ability to externally checking readings depends upon the motherboard, some have external locations where you can make external readings, however, most do not.

- - - - - - - -

Further comments:

I started working in the computer industry over 30 years ago and have been overclocking for about 25 years. In general, with overclocked Intel CPUs for the past 7 years it is not uncommon to see a 13 degree temperature spread, you noted a 20 to 25 degree C spread, and up to 100 degrees C.

If your temperature sensor is correct, danger comes into play when temperatures are too high, and I consider 80 degrees C and above too high.

NOTES: Some benchmarks and games stress a single core and that will cause it to increase temperatures, although an extreme spread such as yours should not be happening unless something is seriously wrong with your cooling, such as improper TIM application [which you implied in your initial post] or improperly mounted cooler. Your cooler, by itself, is a fairly good one and should not be the source of your problem.

To make this post shorter, here is a link to one of my TIM suggestions to another person http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-3332372/miss-spot-thermal-paste-matter.html?siteFrom=EPR-8807#xtor=EPR-8807

Of great concern to me is you are getting high temperatures with no overclock. Something is either seriously wrong with cooling or, as I mentioned you have a bad sensor. Run your CPU fan at 100% [some motherboards let you do this in BIOS, some have software that can be installed to your operating system, and sometimes you simply have to connect it to a 12 volt power connector. If needed places like Micro Center or Newegg sell adapters to change plug connection types, if necessary.]

I use a program that looks at many sensors. https://www.hwinfo.com/download.php After downloading that product, use something like OCCT to stress your CPU. http://www.ocbase.com/index.php/download

Check for updated motherboard BIOS and look a what each newer BIOS version fixes or addresses [it should be at your motherboard's web site], just make sure your power input is stable and you do not turn off your computer while the BIOS is being updated.

Again, please run your fan at 100% and let us know what your temperatures are - also, what your room temperature is.
 

xLiqxo

Prominent
Apr 7, 2017
9
0
510

First of all thanks a lot for all your advice and help, I'm really grateful.



Okay so I followed your advice I did the following things in that order

  • ■ De-mounted the CPU Cooler (TIM was evenly distributed across the cooling plate and the CPU)
    ■ Cleaned CPU and cooler - first with cloth, then with isopropanol and coffee filters
    ■ Applied TIM according to your instructions as "cross" - followed this guide: TIM Application Guide
    ■ Mounted Cooler with as less movement as possible while staying centered
    ■ Booted into BIOS, disabled Turbo Boost, set everything else to stock, made sure no XMP is loaded
    ■ Set Fan Speed to "Full Speed" - I'm assuming this means 100%
    Checked Ambient (Room) Temperature: 24°C
    ■ Prepared Stress tests monitoring with HWMonitor: Max Values correspond to 100% load - screenshots were taken during idle after the runs

    --> RealBench (had to stop after 10min) --> obtained HWM values: Screenshot RealBench Stresstest
    --> Prime95 26.6 @Small FFT's (had to stop after 5min) --> obtained HWM values: Prime95 26.6 Stresstest
Now it's worse again than before (when I spread out the TIM) but again the max temperature of Core0 went from 92°C to 98°C that might also be fluctuation.
I'm puzzled on what to try next. Next step I would do is try a different CPU cooler of a friend that's known to work and eliminate possible fault components. Do you have any more ideas? The huge difference between the "cool cores" and Core0 is really weird.

Thanks again for your help..
 

chenuki

Respectable
May 11, 2016
253
0
1,960
Hi xLiqxo, you're already getting good help here so I'd like to just add a little bit: It's possible the IHS "lid" of your chip is not optimally seated over the die. At idle, your temps look fine because IHS is able handle the low thermals. But at full load, any insufficient contact becomes amplified and manifests as an uneven thermal gradient. While a lower temp on the 4th core is expected, the 37 degree gradient difference between inner and outer core is substantially out of norm.

I suggest requesting RMA if possible, otherwise a de-lidding procedure may be necessary to properly re-seat the IHS.
 

xLiqxo

Prominent
Apr 7, 2017
9
0
510

Hey thanks for the advice!
Unfortunately I bought this chip used but I was told it showed no temperatures higher than 80°C on neither core - but anyway RMA is not possible.

The de-lidding seems to be something to consider but is it possible that the IHS got "damaged" during the removal process?
 

xLiqxo

Prominent
Apr 7, 2017
9
0
510
Update:

There might have been an issue also with my CPU cooler (after all it's >4 years old) - yesterday we switched it to a smaller Noctua NH-12U and improved overall temperatures by >10°C.

Nevertheless the >20°C difference from Core0 to the other cores is persistent but now atleast I can operate it safely at stock settings (with turbo disabled) below 80°C. But as the problem persists and temperatures are way too high for stock settings I'm puzzled as for what to try next.