TDP and Motherboard expert has me confused help

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PeruvianHighs

PeruvianHighs

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So I have an ROG Asus Strix z270f motherboard, and an Intel Core i5 7600 (non k verion TDP 65w) I have an aftermarket cooler, and when I said to him the after market cooler isn't really making much of a difference, my temps are around the same. Idle: 30/35 degrees C, and load 78C, on a burn test prime95 I manged to hit 88 on the stock-cooler, now I can't get higher than 78C. Normal gaming even with demanding games my temps are around 58/60C.

Because he said, does your board support the TDP on your CPU I suspect that is causing the heat issue, i.e. the aftermarket cooler not really have a huge impact.

I didn't buy the aftermarket cooler for the temps I figured in a ambient temp room of 23C 88 underload is fine, when the CPU is rated at 100C, so I am not sure what he actually meant I'm confused in all honesty, can someone help out?
 
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BFG-9000
The problem isn't the huge Noctua NH-D14 which is rated to dissipate 220w. Or the board that can handle overclocking of 91w CPUs.

The i5 7600 is only 65w, but the problem is that 65w is concentrated in only a miniscule part of the tiny 126.15 mm^2 die size because more than half the chip area is IGP. The too-small surface area of the die above the cores is a bottleneck that simply cannot move heat away fast enough. I bet that heatsink doesn't even get warm.

The surface area is so small at 14nm because that way Intel can fit more dies onto a wafer and so make more money.
Intel doesn't solder the IHS onto these small-die chips because supposedly that can crack from thermal cycling, so they simply use paste, which should be fine. The...
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nukemaster

nukemaster

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What aftermarket cooler do you have?

The TDP is the thermal power dissipation. This is the average heat output in watts of a loaded cpu. It will be under it under lower loads and may pass it under heavy load(but the average load should stay in the ballpark). This is a simplified description.

The board lists support for even higher TDP cpus. I do not think that is an issue at all. Remember that you can only take away so much heat and the thermal paste used between the cpu die and heat spreader plays a roll.

So you do not pass 78c in Prime now? That is a improvement if it was 88.
 
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PeruvianHighs

PeruvianHighs

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Yes I don't pass 78c in Prime anymore, since I remounted the cooler, it's a Noctua NH-D14 air-cooler. I did notice when I removed the cooler the to change the orientation, there was slightly more thermal paste on there, I'd say it was maybe slightly too much. But, 2nd time when when I mounted it, I ran out of thermal paste so I had less this time round I was slightly worried it might be too less, but it seems to be working fine.
 
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nukemaster

nukemaster

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The D14 is a good cooler and can handle some pretty hot cpus without issues(even with the fans on low).

Thermal paste is only to fill very small gaps in the 2 surfaces. The thinner the better(as long as it fills any gaps.).

Most users apply a small dot in the center of the cpu and let the cooler flatten it out. You can find many guides on applying paste various ways.

If Intel did not use good paste between the die and heat spreader, it may not be helping your temperatures.
 
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PeruvianHighs

PeruvianHighs

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So, the question I don't overclock, do I need to be concerned about anything? With temps around 60/70c worst case under heavy load? It's not a TDP issue right, because, that had me confused as to why an expert would say that, because I get turbo post to 4.6ghz, I've not overclocked it.

I just uploaded a youtube of the screencapture, might make more sense:

https://youtu.be/dRcyi6q486A
 
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BFG-9000

BFG-9000

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The problem isn't the huge Noctua NH-D14 which is rated to dissipate 220w. Or the board that can handle overclocking of 91w CPUs.

The i5 7600 is only 65w, but the problem is that 65w is concentrated in only a miniscule part of the tiny 126.15 mm^2 die size because more than half the chip area is IGP. The too-small surface area of the die above the cores is a bottleneck that simply cannot move heat away fast enough. I bet that heatsink doesn't even get warm.

The surface area is so small at 14nm because that way Intel can fit more dies onto a wafer and so make more money.
Intel doesn't solder the IHS onto these small-die chips because supposedly that can crack from thermal cycling, so they simply use paste, which should be fine. The problem is they don't keep the IHS tightly clamped while the glue is drying (time is money to them) so the paste ends up having to fill a too-large gap. That's why delidding the IHS, scraping off the glue and replacing with fresh paste can cause the temperature to drop 10C.

To Intel, running hotter than previous chips is not a problem as it still is guaranteed to work at the stock speed even to 100C. If anything, it encourages people interested in overclocking to splurge for their expensive HEDT systems that are soldered.
 
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PeruvianHighs

PeruvianHighs

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Yeah, the cooler is just huge overkill, just like my 180hz (Asus g sync 1ms) monitor when I hardly ever game at those hz/fps only when playing BF. Or a upload speed of 150mbps, because I was going to run a server and then thought never-mind.

When I touch the cooler I don't even think it's ambient temperature, it feels barely warm, on the other-hand my GTX 1080 is a good room heater when it hits 70c it pumps out some nice warm air.

But thanks for the answers guys this explains a lot, makes more sense, I mean I am not an Intel or Nvadia fanboy, I actually own both system, I'm getting a Ryzen CPU soon just to fiddle around with it. I own a RX 470 and RX480.

But next week I am buying two 1080ti's fron ASUS strix edition, if anything I'm a ASUS fan boy,
 
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PeruvianHighs

PeruvianHighs

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Can I use my warranty, the processor is less then a year old. It was a boxed processor, but adding an aftermarket cooler does that void the warranty? Because I suspect maybe its the die, since a retailer told me, no way the CPU should be up at 75c when its not even overclocked and there is good airflow, even under load, using stock, and he said with an aftermarket cooler on that cheap it should be around 38c max under heavy load.

Maybe I got a bad die processor?
 
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nukemaster

nukemaster

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70's under heavy load is fairly normal. I do agree it is not for stock settings under a D14, but I do not think it a defect.

No chance the cpu would be 38c max with any cooler even at stock(full load). You still have to remove heat and the case is warmer than your room.

Many users use bios temperatures or board software temperatures and they are cooler than what some programs read because they are not the core temperatures of the die(and even those are only so accurate).

For a yard stick. My 2600K @ 4.4(older and hotter) running a not so demanding game(Played it for about 2 hours took a break and played some more. The system was warmed up and the room is 24c) shows a peak use of about 70 watts(well under the cpu's top end). but I still get to 57-62(all cores and package). This is cooled by an H80i(similar to the D14 in performance at these thermal levels.). I have both and had both on the same system for testing. I kept the H80i because it takes less space(Placed the D14 on my old I7 920). The board software should show a peak of 50c. The 2600k because it is older(larger) and also has the heat spreader soldered to the cpu will run cooler than most newer cpus under load.

My video card. A GTX 1070 with a Arctic Mono Plus(yes I like aftermarket coolers because they can be run slower) peaked at 63c.

I do not think that many cpus run full load in the high 30s

EDIT.
Your board shows pretty close cpu and die temps. I do not have those cpus to test with, but they seem closer.

EDIT. Prime95 for fun.

Again, older bigger die soldered heat spreader. Yes it is overclocked, but only what it would get on stock voltage(that is what the board would feed it at default speeds).
20r5x8k.jpg


EDIT, image was scaled by host.
59 lowest to 65 hottest part.(even at stock, I do not think I can get under 50)
Ignore the video card fan speeding up with the cpu temperatures(it is connected to the board because the video card does not control it properly due to its lower speed).
 
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nukemaster

nukemaster

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You look fine.

Again, Intel would not make a cpu that would die under stock cooling and you have better than stock cooling.

My max fan speeds are bugged, for some reason when switching speeds the fan readings sometimes go crazy(my fastest fan is about 1700 with the others in the 1200-1500 area). Your cpu fan also seems pretty slow. You could try to increase it a bit to see if it helps, but your temperatures will not hurt the system. It is not like you build the system to run Prime95 :)
 
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