Possibly Making the Switch to PC Gaming. Coming From PS4

Dwiggles · Apr 24, 2017

Hello,

This is my first post here, I've been putt'n around all weekend trying to get my head wrapped the idea of moving my gaming over to PC. I have never liked the idea of paying money to play the games I already bought, because of that, I have always been a PlayStation fan (because PSN was free to play) but then came the PSN-Plus, and slowly, online support for my staple games on PS3 came to end. Now I either need to pay for online services, or just play solo. I am not a regular gamer; so for me I might as well be throwing away money as sometimes a few months will go by without even thinking about a game. (aside from driving sims)

anyway, with the upcoming release of project cars 2 and my wife wanting a new computer to work from home; I am thinking of switching over to the PC for gaming.

Approximate Purchase Date: As soon as I am convinced this is what I want to do

Budget Range: Undecided (shopping/weighing options) but likely $1,200-$1,500 Maximum if I can stretch the lifespan via future upgrades to keep everything "up to date" . But ofcourse, cheaper is always better so long as it will do the job and beat/compete with the PS4. But I do not want to shoot myself in the foot and end up with a worthless PC in just a few short years

System Usage from Most to Least Important: Variety of gaming (sim racing *POSSIBLE interest in VR*, FPS, RPGs, etc.) CAD/3D modeling; Rendering(no excessive time constraints, but looking for "decent" performance); hobby Photo editing; possible hobby video editing

Are you buying a monitor: No, Will most likely set up the PC in the living room, and just use HDMI to to TV

Do you need to buy OS: Yes, Probably Windows10? Linux kernel? not sure

Preferred Website(s) for Parts: Amazon, newegg.com, local frys, etc. pretty open to this as long as they are reputable

Location: Houston, Texas

Parts Preferences: I am not sure, no extensive experience with any of this. Intel processor? SSD for anything that needs to be on SSD? I'll probably run a standard HDD for additional storage? I think its pretty cool to see Dell's "Alienware" PCs can use XBox1 controllers, So might want that option on this PC, but it also looks like I can use the DualShock 4 from the PS4 with just a USB cable, so that is a plus, but I am wondering if its possible to use wirelessly as well? Mostly will be using my Logitech G27 wheel for racing sims at this time

Overclocking: Yes / No / Maybe / What is this / how does it work / I need to read more

SLI or Crossfire: Yes / No / Maybe / See Overclocking

Your Monitor Resolution: HDMI to a 1080p @ 120Hz 50" Sony Bravia LCD to start. might look into a stand alone screen/s in the furture. would also like to use the current sound system in the living room as well, so if HDMI can carry the audio aswell, and let the TV send it to the amplifier that would be a simple 1-hdmi cord plug&play setup for me... Also have a TurtleBeach P11 carryover fromt he PS3/4 I would like to keep using if possible. not fancy stuff, but its what I have.

Additional Comments: I dont really care for a shouty looking case, It would be great if it was relatively small, quiet and unnoticeable in the living room. We will be running autoCAD, Revit, Rhino, Photoshop, and CATIA from time to time if we work from home.

And Most Importantly, Why Are You Upgrading: Our laptops are a little dated; and struggle running the latest CADs as they are a little older, I have a PS4, but do not want to pay to play a game I already paid for, seems silly to me...

my current laptop is a top spec (at the time) 2010 HP Pavilion dv8t:
Intel i7-840QM 1.86 GHz, 8Mb L3 Cache, 3.2 GHz "Turbo Boost"
1GB Nvidia GeForce GT 230M
8GB DDR3
640GB 7200RPM SATA (320GB x 2)

and hers is a Acer, not sure of the specs as She bought it on a whim and is much less interested in the hardware as she is the "LOOK" and "FEEL"

Barty1884 · Apr 24, 2017

For that budget, you'll definitely be able to outperform a PS4 - by a long ways.
In addition, it's going to be more capable of "other" things - editing etc too.

As for the controller support, xbox controller support is there natively in W10...... PS takes a little work, but can be done (it's not simply 'plug & play' though).

The overclocking aspect, you'd really need to read up on to understand if it's for you. My recommendation; with the budget, keeping your options open is not a bad thing. You may never use the ability, but it can allow you to sneak a little extra performance out of your setup..... or keep it viable longer.

SLI or Crossfire is running dual-GPUs in tandem. In theory, it sounds great, double the performance, right? In practice, a very low % of games support SLI or CF and, even in the titles that do, performance gains are rarely even close to sizeable enough to warrant the cost.

Herc08 · Apr 24, 2017

Well, welcome to the dark side.

All jokes asisde, I am a console and a PC gamer, so I understand where you are coming from. I pay the $60 a year and forget about it. But I agree that paying for something that you barely use is useless. So based off your answers, here is a build that I think will best suit your needs

1) XBOX controllers can be used for ANY PC. In fact, I use it for my custom PC, instead of a keyboard and mouse.
2) Overclocking is more about computing performance and not gaming. If you want a speedier performance, then overclocking will do you jsut fine. There are plenty of guides about it.
3) SLI is using two graphic cards for better graphical quality. If you are not trying to obtain 4K monitors, then SLI is probably overkill
4) Here is the part list. It is probably just a tad bit overkill, but will last. It is also future proof, so even 5 years down the line, you probably will not need to upgrade anything. If you are going to swtich to 4K, it will handle some games at 4K, but since you are sticking with 1080p, it will be just fine. If you are using AutoCAD and rendering, the i7 will blow you away. Others may recommend Ryzen, but Intel's proven performance is a sure go to. We are not sure if Ryzen is really future proof. My philosophy is if it ain't broke, don't fit it. You could consider an extra 16GB of RAM, but this should be just fine. You could also go for a M.2, but I figure that is just overkill. If you have any questions, let me know.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i7-7700K 4.2GHz Quad-Core Processor ($338.34 @ OutletPC)
CPU Cooler: Corsair H100i 77.0 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler ($99.99 @ Corsair)
Motherboard: Asus STRIX Z270-E GAMING ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($186.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3000 Memory ($122.89 @ OutletPC)
Storage: Samsung 850 EVO-Series 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($107.99 @ B&H)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($49.89 @ OutletPC)
Video Card: Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1070 8GB G1 Gaming Video Card ($374.98 @ Newegg)
Case: NZXT S340 (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case ($66.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA NEX 650W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($74.89 @ OutletPC)
Total: $1422.95
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-04-24 12:31 EDT-0400

Barty1884 · Apr 24, 2017

Given the resolution you want to play at OP, a GTX 1070 is probably perfect. If, however, you want to push to the top end of your budget, a GTX 1080 is achievable too.

The smartest route for "future proof", are upgrades over time. For example, a $300 GPU now, and another $300 GPU in a year or two. Would serve you much better than a $600 GPU now (generally). Just throwing that out there.

Both builds include an OS, along with solid mouse & keyboard.

Upper-end, GTX 1080
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i7-7700K 4.2GHz Quad-Core Processor ($338.34 @ OutletPC)
CPU Cooler: CRYORIG H7 49.0 CFM CPU Cooler ($34.99 @ Newegg Marketplace)
Motherboard: MSI Z270M MORTAR Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($104.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: Patriot Viper Elite 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-2666 Memory ($97.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Plextor M7V 256GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive ($84.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($69.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Video Card: Zotac GeForce GTX 1080 8GB AMP! Edition Video Card ($489.95 @ B&H)
Case: Corsair Carbide Series 88R MicroATX Mid Tower Case ($44.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: Rosewill Capstone 650W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($74.99 @ Newegg Marketplace)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 10 Home OEM 64-bit ($88.58 @ OutletPC)
Keyboard: Cooler Master CM Storm Quick Fire TK Wired Gaming Keyboard ($64.55 @ Amazon)
Mouse: Corsair M65 PRO RGB FPS Wired Optical Mouse ($39.99 @ Amazon)
Total: $1534.34
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-04-24 12:41 EDT-0400

The "fit for purpose"
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i7-7700K 4.2GHz Quad-Core Processor ($338.34 @ OutletPC)
CPU Cooler: CRYORIG H7 49.0 CFM CPU Cooler ($34.99 @ Newegg Marketplace)
Motherboard: MSI Z270M MORTAR Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($104.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: Patriot Viper Elite 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-2666 Memory ($97.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Plextor M7V 256GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive ($84.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($69.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Video Card: Zotac GeForce GTX 1070 8GB Video Card ($359.99 @ Newegg)
Case: Corsair Carbide Series 88R MicroATX Mid Tower Case ($44.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: Rosewill Capstone 650W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($74.99 @ Newegg Marketplace)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 10 Home OEM 64-bit ($88.58 @ OutletPC)
Keyboard: Cooler Master CM Storm Quick Fire TK Wired Gaming Keyboard ($64.55 @ Amazon)
Mouse: Corsair M65 PRO RGB FPS Wired Optical Mouse ($39.99 @ Amazon)
Total: $1404.38
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-04-24 12:41 EDT-0400

The H7, paired with a Z270 will allow you to OC, if you decide to in future. The H7 isn't going to set an OCing records by any means, but should be sufficient to learn.

mATX case is about as small as you'll get without having to opt for "mini" variants of GPUs which can get a little warm. I don't believe may (if any) Z270 boards have been released yet in mITX form factors either.

Hamsalad · Apr 24, 2017

I made the switch from console to PC a few months ago and with my current build I am so much more happy with the gaming experience! The community is not nearly as toxic as it is with consoles and the graphics and frame rate are far better on PC. Advice that I can give you to help avoid some of the troubles that I ran into when i started would be:

1. DO YOUR RESEARCH
*Decide on whether you want to run AMD or Intel based system there are differences
2. Make sure that your motherboard has all the headers that you are going to need and can run the CPU chip you are getting!
*Make sure it has multiple case fan headers for adequate cooling etc.
3. Get an aftermarket CPU Cooler (air or water cooling) do some research on what you feel you would want.
4. Make sure your PSU (power supply) can handle all of the wattage you will be pulling
5. Make sure that ALL the parts you order will be compatible with one another
*For 4&5 pcpartpicker.com is the best site that I have found and will also give you the lowest prices sorted by site that carries
each specific part.
6. Don't be afraid to ask for help! Like I said before, the community is VERY helpful and a lot less toxic!

Putting the computers together are pretty cake as well. Before my first build I had honestly never even seen the inside of a desktop computer, but I am pretty tech savvy. It's like putting together a giant puzzle. If you get lost YouTube is your friend but the user manuals for your parts are your BEST friend. I wish you all the luck in your build and welcome!

BTW with that price range you will be GOLDEN mine was about the same price.

My Build:
https://pcpartpicker.com/user/aStevens04/builds/

bignastyid · Apr 24, 2017

Herc08 :

Well, welcome to the dark side.

All jokes asisde, I am a console and a PC gamer, so I understand where you are coming from. I pay the $60 a year and forget about it. But I agree that paying for something that you barely use is useless. So based off your answers, here is a build that I think will best suit your needs

1) XBOX controllers can be used for ANY PC. In fact, I use it for my custom PC, instead of a keyboard and mouse.
2) Overclocking is more about computing performance and not gaming. If you want a speedier performance, then overclocking will do you jsut fine. There are plenty of guides about it.
3) SLI is using two graphic cards for better graphical quality. If you are not trying to obtain 4K monitors, then SLI is probably overkill
4) Here is the part list. It is probably just a tad bit overkill, but will last. It is also future proof, so even 5 years down the line, you probably will not need to upgrade anything. If you are going to swtich to 4K, it will handle some games at 4K, but since you are sticking with 1080p, it will be just fine. If you are using AutoCAD and rendering, the i7 will blow you away. Others may recommend Ryzen, but Intel's proven performance is a sure go to. We are not sure if Ryzen is really future proof. My philosophy is if it ain't broke, don't fit it. You could consider an extra 16GB of RAM, but this should be just fine. You could also go for a M.2, but I figure that is just overkill. If you have any questions, let me know.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i7-7700K 4.2GHz Quad-Core Processor ($338.34 @ OutletPC)
CPU Cooler: Corsair H100i 77.0 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler ($99.99 @ Corsair)
Motherboard: Asus STRIX Z270-E GAMING ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($186.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3000 Memory ($122.89 @ OutletPC)
Storage: Samsung 850 EVO-Series 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($107.99 @ B&H)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($49.89 @ OutletPC)
Video Card: Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1070 8GB G1 Gaming Video Card ($374.98 @ Newegg)
Case: NZXT S340 (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case ($66.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA NEX 650W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($74.89 @ OutletPC)
Total: $1422.95
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-04-24 12:31 EDT-0400

For $75 that first gen supernova is not a good deal as they are not very good units in terms of quality and longevity.

bignastyid · Apr 24, 2017

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i7-7700K 4.2GHz Quad-Core Processor ($338.34 @ OutletPC)
CPU Cooler: CRYORIG H5 Universal 65.0 CFM CPU Cooler ($46.88 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z270X-Ultra Gaming ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($164.89 @ OutletPC)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LED 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3000 Memory ($114.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Samsung 960 EVO 250GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive ($127.98 @ NCIX US)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($69.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Video Card: Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1070 8GB G1 Gaming Video Card ($374.98 @ Newegg)
Case: Phanteks ECLIPSE P400 TEMPERED GLASS ATX Mid Tower Case ($79.99 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: SeaSonic G 550W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($66.89 @ Newegg)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 10 Home OEM 64-bit ($88.58 @ OutletPC)
Total: $1473.51
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-04-24 12:50 EDT-0400

Dwiggles · Apr 24, 2017

Barty1884 :

Thanks for the info. I will look into these other topics as I get a little more versed in whats actually going on. I have been out of computers for the better part of 12-13 years and a LOT has changed. I think the last time I built a PC, It was with a Pentium 4, IIRC, it was something like a 800Mbps buss, 2 Gb ram, a 32 Mb GPU and a 32x DVD-RW... it was a beast at the time... Infact, I still have it in storage but its just a sentimental thing since I built it with my father haha so LOTS to catchup on for sure! But I also want to keep in mind that the budget constraint is a maximum, I'm happy to spend half of that or less if the PC will be able to handle what I'm looking for.

Herc08 :

Barty1884 :

Thank you all for taking the time to help offer me some solutions. I am still trying to get my head around all this and am mainly interested in why certain components are being selected/recommended and what are the tradeoffs from others, what I actually need, and where I can afford to save a little coin and keep the build cheap and efficient. I'm sure their are differences, so I'll likely be researching each one of these potential builds piece by piece to get my head around understanding what I'm trying to do. While I'm sure if I just hoped off and bought any of these builds, it would perform well, when dealing with this kind of money for "pleasure" I like to know a little more about why "this" over "that" but thank you guys for your inputs.

Hamsalad :

CURRENT STATE: RESEARCH! LMAO

Glad I am not alone. I started looking into this after trying to find a "off the shelf" PC that could handle what I'm trying to accomplish, and after seeing the price tags, it just seemed better to build one. What a task though these days. Thanks for the encouragement, as a "novice" the learning curve seems quite steep! I am a firm believer in "buy once, cry once" But at the same time, dont want to go over the top on a PC I will never utilize and waste my hard earned money. So cheaper is better, but I still want it to be able to handle what I want to do. which at this point is pretty much run CADs, Renders within a few hours/over night at most, game better than a PS4, maintain performance for a few years to come with minimal NEED to upgrade, and can run a VR setup for Sim Racing, I'm interested in trying it out, but If I dont like it, I'll likely just run a standard 3 screen setup for racing specifically, and revert to the Livingroom TV for everything else.

bignastyid :

Interesting, and exactly the type of feedback I'm interested in. Could you please elaborate a little more about which PSU you would recommend and why?

Barty1884 · Apr 24, 2017

A little as to the "this" or "that" and "why" etc...

From Intel, you've got Pentium/i3/i5/i7, along with additional "enthusiast" chips (more i7s).

The i7-7700K is really the "top of the line" chip today. It's a powerhouse in Gaming, and the additional threads (Quad Core + HyperThreading) give you the added performance boost in editing/rendering* etc.
*Depending on the applications used.

With the i7 (non enthusiast), there's 7700 and 7700K - there's a small clock speed 'bump' with the K, and it'll allow you to OC should you desire. The 7700 is marginally cheaper and allows you to use a cheaper board (of the H270 an B250 chipsets).

If you were looking strictly at gaming, and i5-7600K would be a quality option too, but the added threads of the i7 will give you some more 'power' for your other goals.

The i5 can still perform the other tasks you want too, of course - just a little slower with lesser physical resources to call on.

Most games (today) still can't utilize >4 cores/threads, but there will come a time

AMD have their new offerings with Ryzen - while they're performing pretty well in the editing/rendering etc tasks, they're not quite matching the performance of Intels latest Gen..... yet. But they made a huge leap forward from their last FX offerings.

You also asked a little on the PSU, and this will give you a high level overview of good/bad/indifferent/disasterous PSUs. For detailed reviews, you're best looking at JohnnyGuru and a couple of other similar sites with professional reviews.
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/id-2547993/psu-tier-list.html

I linked a Rosewill Capstone G650, BNS linked a SeaSonic G550 - you can't go wrong with either, and it'll come down to price.

Dwiggles · Apr 24, 2017

Barty1884 :

Thanks for the info! I have a pretty basic understanding of the different processors at this point. And something with hyperthreading sounds interesting, I'm not sure it is something that I necessary NEED inorder to be happy with my machine. While my budget COULD allow for that at the high end, I'm more interested in getting the best bang for the buck so to say. I don't NEED a $1500 gaming toy, that is just the MOST I am willing to spend. I guess I should have thought through wording that a little more before my initial post. Holy thread on PSUs! It's going to take a minute to sift through the 119 pages! Thank you for the link!

Let me try to explain a little more. My reason for switching from console to PC is paying for online gameplay. Inorder to make this transition economical, my pc needs to make since, considering I already own the PS4, and COULD simply pay the $60/year going forward (though, I am a firm believer in voting with my dollars, and paying to play a game I already paid for just goes against all logic IMO)

I guess I'm looking to see if I can get a PC, that will outperform&outlast the PS4, and last well into the midlife of the next generation consoles (depending on cost of course) But the more I read, the more it seems like I may be looking for a unicorn solution. Todays consoles are about $300, and "live" is about $60/year either through Xbox or PS4, let's say the consoles lifespan is roughly 6 years? So that's $660 for 6 years of gaming with a PS4 (including console purchase), or $110/year. If I'm spending $1500 on a PC (for gaming) I would like adequate performance for a lifespan of 13 years... (dollar for dollar) which seems pretty unlikely at this point...

It would be nice to be able to run CADs and work from home on the same machine, but that might not be economical at this point. 13 years is a long time to offset the cost. I may need to rethink my budget from a logistics standpoint.

Am I way off base here? Toys are fun, but I've been known to dive in too quick in the past. So please bare with me and let's discuss

Barty1884 · Apr 24, 2017

Just re-read my response from earlier, and wanted to clarify a couple of points that didn't come across as intended:
1. "The i7-7700K is really the "top of the line" chip today".... from a 'mainstream' standpoint.
2. "AMD have their new offerings with Ryzen - while they're performing pretty well in the editing/rendering etc tasks, they're not quite matching the performance of Intels latest Gen"...... in gaming.

To answer your latest post;
You're pretty much correct - the financial outlay (when you already have a PS4) is tough to justify..... and I can't justify it for you. If you were considering buying a PS4 now vs a budget PC, the upgradeability of the PC would outlast a PS4.

Even the most 'budget' (as far as would be recommended) would be a G4560 + GTX 1050TI.
While that *could* outperform a PS4, it's not necessariyl going to be resoundingly better......and would cost you somewhere around $500.

The simple fact is (using a PS4 as an example), the Sony ecosystem has everything nailed down. They have the volume for hardware discounts, their own manufacturing facilities, they have the OS etc - so (some of) the cost is immediately absorbed. Considering a PC, your OS (assuming Windows and not somethign like SteamOS) is already $80+....or, right around 25% of the cost of a 'complete' PS4.

As I mentioned, if this was a "PS4 vs PC" purchase, the PC would make the most sense:
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Pentium G4560 3.5GHz Dual-Core Processor ($59.48 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: ASRock B250M-HDV Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($62.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: Patriot 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR4-2133 Memory ($50.00 @ Amazon)
Storage: Seagate BarraCuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($47.49 @ OutletPC)
Video Card: Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1050 Ti 4GB Video Card ($124.98 @ Newegg)
Case: Raidmax Viper II ATX Mid Tower Case ($19.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: Corsair CXM 450W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($29.99 @ Newegg)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 10 Home OEM 64-bit ($88.58 @ OutletPC)
Total: $483.50
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-04-24 22:22 EDT-0400

Upgradeable to an i5 or i7.... and pretty much any GPU you want, would keep it much more viably over a ~6 year period vs a PS4, without the online costs etc.

But, considering you already have a PS4 (and can't recoup near 100% of your purchase price).....it's pretty tough to justify.

Dwiggles · Apr 25, 2017

Barty1884 :

Thanks for delving a little deeper with me.

I will spend a little time looking at this setup you posted here as it is VERY economical, and quite arguably CHEAPER then a console system. but I am sure it has limits, would this machine still be viable for the next 5-6 years? or will it quickly become obsolete and struggle to run the latest games come 2020++? while I understand predicting the future is just that, Anyone who has been following PCs for a while should have a much better guess at this point then someone like myself

While I do in fact already own the PS4, I still consider it money ALREADY spent. And not apart of this equation. I'm trying to keep a firm grasp on what I am trying to accomplish with a gaming PC. With already having the PS4; and the OS cost is not something I need to consider into the budget because I can easily justify the additional utility of a machine with Windows10 considering we dont currently have one at home. The PS4 will still be used for things like streaming, youtube, and PS exclusive solo gaming on titles like The Last of Us, Days Gone, Uncharted, and maybe even Gran Turismo Sport depending on how in depth the career mode ends up being. But the PC will be for just about everything else, Including the new Project Cars, and Dirt Rally. I would really like to be able to play these in VR as well. But I'm not sure how much machine I need in order to run everything smoothly. Games like Battlefield1 and others are not of "no interest" at this point either. I simply havent played them on the PS4 because of their LARGE dependency on the online aspect. However, I did play Battlefield3 and COD quite a bit on the PS3

I was talking to my wife about the $1500 builds above last night, and she seems to think she wont be using the machine as much as she originally lead on in regards to the CAD & rendering... so those machines may be overkill at this time.

So being a little more realistic, what would you guys recommend for a PC that is relatively economical, capable of VR and will continue to perform for the foreseeable future?

Barty1884 · Apr 25, 2017

Still viable in 5-6 years? It depends what you want to be doing with it in 5-6 years. If you want it to play newer (ie 3+ years from now) titles at any great settings.... probably not. But provided you're reasonable with your settings expectations over time, it should definitely be playable
*Using Resident Evil 7 as a rep for "new" games, the minimum GPU is a GTX760 (June '13) or R7 260X (Sept '13)

The ideal with that setup would be to upgrade the CPU from the used market in a couple of years, and the GPU as/when necessary.

I think the "solution" for you (as far as a budget), sits somewhere in-between. Probably $700-$900.
The 1050TI is not a VR card - I'd look to a minimum GTX1060 or RX480 for a 'good' VR experience (from what I've read anyway. VR isn't my thing).

I'm thinking i5+ one of those cards + 16GB RAM. That should be pretty viable for the forseeable.

While predicting 10+ years out is tough, history can give us an idea.

While a GPU is going to be pretty useless 10 years into the future - look at something like a 8800 GTX from mid-2007.....a $600 card of the time.
Driver support ceased in 2016, caps out at DX10.............and not even remotely 'useable' i nthe vast majority of newer titles.

A CPU on the other hand, if you 'aim big' now.... should still be somewhat viable. Something like an i7-920 (end 2008) is still reasonably viable. While I wouldn't recommend running out and buying one today, if you had one, it should still serve you just about ok. Same with a C2Q6600 from almost 2 years prior (early 2007). Low clock speed (compared to today), but should be capbale of a 'playable' experience at least, even on newer titles..... maybe not brand new titles, but definitely from only a couple of years ago.

I'd look at something like this, for VR-ready and some pretty decent longevity anticipated:
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-7500 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($188.89 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-B250M-DS3H Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($62.98 @ Newegg)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws V Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-2400 Memory ($101.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Zotac T500 240GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($69.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($48.88 @ OutletPC)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 1060 6GB 6GB SC GAMING Video Card ($209.99 @ Newegg)
Case: Rosewill FBM-01 MicroATX Mini Tower Case ($20.99 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: Corsair CXM 450W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($29.99 @ Newegg)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 10 Home OEM 64-bit ($88.58 @ OutletPC)
Total: $822.28
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-04-25 11:29 EDT-0400

OR

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-7500 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($188.89 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-B250M-DS3H Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($62.98 @ Newegg)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws V Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-2400 Memory ($101.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Zotac T500 240GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($69.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($48.88 @ OutletPC)
Video Card: Gigabyte Radeon RX 580 8GB Gaming 8G Video Card ($219.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Case: Rosewill FBM-01 MicroATX Mini Tower Case ($20.99 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: Corsair CXM 450W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($29.99 @ Newegg)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 10 Home OEM 64-bit ($88.58 @ OutletPC)
Total: $832.28
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-04-25 11:30 EDT-0400

The SSD isn't 'necessary', but since you dont have a strictly 'fixed' budget, I'd try to squeeze one in if you can.

Dwiggles · Apr 25, 2017

Ok, I have been reading prettty much nonstop, and here is my first crack at this:

first crack build here

1)I started with the motherboard
-I went with the Z270 chipset which will allow me to overclock the newest keby lake processors
should I end up with one in the future
-DDR4 RAM supported up to 3866 leaving room to upgrade should I decide to do so.

2)CPU:
After reading more and more on the performance of the latest processors and seeing the price, it looks like the i3-7100 wont hold me back much to start (but I could be wrong) at 3.9 GHz and dual cores, but am I missing something? Maybe it would be worth the $75 to go with the i5-7500 w/ 4 cores and 3.4GHz?

3)RAM:
I'll be honest, I didn't research the RAM much, I just figured the high end of my budget builds (DOUBLE the cost of what I'm looking at now) mentioned earlier in this thread were using DDR4-3000, so I figured that must be good enough. It is right about mid range for the above mobo, and at ~$100, its not going to make or break the build. But I am open to some help in regards to this.

4) GPU:
the more I looked into the VR side of things, I keep finding that the current limits of the VR headset itself is the current limiting factor, so I think opting for the GTX 1060 6GB is ok? while the 1070 would likely be ideal, the additional cost has be hesitant. but again, I am only planning to use VR for sim racing. I am open to discuss this as with everything else with this build. I'm still very much in the learning phase

Let me know what you guys think? I havent even began to look into brand names vs. off brands and best bang for the buck components so I'm definitely open to suggestions. But I am looking more to understand rather than just buying what I'm told. So I plan to read lots and lots.

I also haven't selected a case because I'm not really sure that it matters so much. I agree thermal efficiency is key, and I did happen to color coordinate the components just for fun if someone wants to recommend a decent, economical case w/ or w/o a window? on a side note, will I need to source fans seperately? what all do I need to make that work? I dont want to forget and end up with problems... Anyway, like I said, this is my FIRST attempt at trying to figure out what I need, and I've only been catching up on the PC tech for about 3 days now so it is VERY possible that I have no idea what I'm doing... Thank you guys in advance

Barty1884 · Apr 25, 2017

*I wouldn't pay $112 for an i3-7100, the G4560 is a bit lower clocked, but more than capable - and half the price! Stepping up from there, skip the i3's altogether and go straight to an i5.
A comparison: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwLv6JmUSFY

*I'm not 100% sure, as it's predominanlty chipset (ZXXX) that allows the use of the XMP profiles and speeds >2400MHz, but the CPU may cause some issues reaching those speeds. Worse-case-scenario though, you can still run it at 2133/2400MHz

*A GTX1060 or RX480/580 is more than capable for what you want out of it.

*Cases are about 99% personal preference. While airflow, cooling mounts, cable management etc are all considerations - ultimately, provided it fits your components, a "case is a case".

*As for fans, some (generally, better) cases will come with at least one; but there's no guarantee or rule there. So ensure you read reviews etc to understand what comes with the case. You just need to appropriate number of fan heads to connect them to, and with an ATX board, you shouldn't have any issues with a "normal" number of fans (ie <4).

To comment on your build:
*As I mentioned, I'd avoid the i3 in favour of the G4560 - it's the budget "king" these days.
*I wouldn't necessarily pick up an 850 Evo on a budget - while it's definitely the best performing SSD, even a budget SSD in the <$70 range for a similar capacity would show very little difference, outside of synthetic benchmarks.
*If you can (and the price is right), opt for a full-length/dual cooler GPU - it'll help keep your temps down. Those smaller variants are for smaller, HTPC-type builds where you sacrafice a litle in temps for the size. Wiht a full ATX board (and therefore, a full ATX case), you don't need to make that sacrafice.
*The CX500 is a poor quality PSU. The CX lineup was poor all-round, but the latest offerings (CX450, CX550... and I think CX650) improved them dramatically. The CX450 is available for $30 after rebate currently.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Pentium G4560 3.5GHz Dual-Core Processor ($59.48 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z270-Gaming K3 ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($124.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws V Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3000 Memory ($119.89 @ OutletPC)
Storage: Sandisk SSD PLUS 240GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($71.04 @ Amazon)
Video Card: MSI GeForce GTX 1060 6GB 6GB ARMOR OCV1 Video Card ($229.98 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: Corsair CXM 450W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($29.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $635.37
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-04-25 17:53 EDT-0400

You've since updated your post, and I just noticed:
As for the "off-brands" vs more "mainstream" offerings..... there's not much to worry about (other than PSUs)

All motherboard manufacturers are quality (each with their own pros/cons), as are GPU manufacturers.
Zotac, Gainward etc are all reliable brands, working with the same chips as the 'big guys'. They just don't have the brand recognition yet.

RAM, you get what you pay for ultimately. Basic stuff is comparable with everybody else, but looking to RGB-type offerings....someone like GEIL just have RGB strips taped on top..... whereas Corsair, G.Skill etc,.... there a more intricate design, with controllers etc.

PSUs are where off-brands....:"shine"(?) - as in, flames "shine", right?
There are too many brands to mention them all, Logisys, Diablotech etc are all potential fire-hazards.
Very few of the "big guys" make their own PSUs..... the OEM (and platform used) is what matters there.
SeaSonic are one of the only ones you can trust on name alone. XFX to a lesser extent, as they were all made by SeaSonic (outside of the XT lineup, which is poor).

Dwiggles · Apr 25, 2017

Barty1884 :

AWESOME! Solid advice!

So, revisiting our conversation from earlier I checked the release date of the PS4 (Nov 2013) and the release date of the new PS4 PRO (4k) (Nov 2016); the PS4 Pro hit the market at $400, and assuming a standard life of 3 years, that brings me to a economically feasible budget of around $700 or so (with a little wiggle room for my moral conscious being the driving factor here with refusal to pay to continue to play games I already purchased)

i3 = OUT!
I'm still wrestling around in my head over the 2 core G4560 or biting the bullet and just going with a 4 core. What are your thoughts on this? While most of the games I plan on playing will be RPGs/3rd Person Shooters, FPS, and Sim Racing; I have read that the AI in games like 3rd person shooters and sim racing will require a bit more processing power as the AI responds to user inputs, but I am not sure how to directly correlate that to what I need from a processing stand point; and again, who knows what the future holds. Thoughts?

Regarding the chipset; I was reading an article *I believe HERE that only specifically called out the Z270 chipset for overclocking, but this could very well be a misinterpretation on my part. I would hate to make compromises on a mobo for a chipset I dont even fully understand nor do I foresee any need for overclocking in my future. Aside from the chipset, is there anything I am missing in regards to the mobo selection?

with the savings on the CPU by going with a G4560; I may be able to swing the cash into a GTX1070? or would it be better served to stick with the GTX1060 and opt for a 4 core processor in your opinion? could you please elaborate a little on this as I am interested; and this is a current internal debate for me as I go through your response.

How can I tell how many fan heads are available on a mobo? I didnt see that specified in the specs on pcpartpicker? but I did see in additional items "fan controllers" I'm not sure if this is something I would want/need. But It doesnt sound like it off first guess?

I have no reservations about the SSD brand name, so long as it does the job, the difference in cost can either be saved or distributed to somewhere more worthy. Thanks for the tip!

I hadn't even noticed I selected a sub-size GPU; I simply spec'd the chipset I thought I wanted and then tried to find a happy medium between price and reviews to make the selection. I'm not even sure I understand the difference from one version to the next with the same chipset/ram? Again, thanks for the catch!

I wasn't sure on the PSU either as I haven't sifted through the PSU thread linked above yet. But thanks for the catch. Along with the GPU & RAM, I was simply spec'n for what I thought I needed and then looked for a comfortable balance between cost and reviews. I'm always willing to run higher quality components, especially for something critical

HA! you too have since edited your post and In regards the getting what you pay for with RAM, your description has me a little confused. you mention that basic stuff is comparable with everyone else, but the RGB-type is where the difference lies. RGB as in LEDs on ram? I couldn't care less about LEDs, sure it will look cool in a windowed case, but I'm definitely in for cost for function over cost for form.

I would like to see what you think in regards to the topics above. If you were to build a machine for my needs and around the $700-750 mark, what would you do for my type of gaming?

The Paladin · Apr 25, 2017

my 2 cents worth;

1. the G4560 though a 2 core has hyper threading making it almost act like a 4 core cpu. (2 threads per core)

2. regarding the Z270 board, if I was you since your going with the G4560 I would use a B250, the cpu will gain nothing of a z based board, and the B250 permits at a later time to upgrade your cpu with a I7-7770 (not a K you cannot overclock on a B2xx series board) but since you cannot overclock the G4560 I think saving the cash on a B250 that will perform just as well as a Z270 board with the CPU you are going to use now, and though not overclock able, the 7770 (4.2 GHZ)is not a lot less powerful to an on overclocked 7770K.(4.5GHZ) and cheaper in the long run.

3. Header can be looked up on user manual of most boards looking at the diagram of motherboard they usually list the "FAN_xx" headers clearly. you can use 2 fan with a splitter on one header, but I never had a need to.

4. SSD there is a bit of a difference in speeds between an SATA model, and the M.2 (2240/60/80 etc.) models, usually plugs directly into the motherboard, having less floating on a sata cable is my view of this, and newer M/2 SSD have bigger cache ram than Sata Models it seems to be the trend to make the more responsive.

5, rule of thumb for PSU is 100w over needs of built system, I like to round it to 150w upwards. permits to upgrade video/etc without much worry about making psu stressed out.

6. choosing a case that did not look like a tower in the living room but could fit on a shelf and look more an audio visual product is the idea, so I suggest a quiet design without anything fancy (i.e. led etc.) giving away the box and its purpose too easily.

taking your 700-750$ challenge and based on the information above here is what I suggest.
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Pentium G4560 3.5GHz Dual-Core Processor ($59.48 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: MSI B250M GAMING PRO Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($78.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: Patriot Viper Elite 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-2133 Memory ($108.23 @ Newegg)
Storage: Plextor M7V 256GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive ($92.00 @ Newegg)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($48.88 @ OutletPC)
Video Card: Gigabyte Radeon RX 570 4GB Gaming 4G Video Card ($168.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Case: Fractal Design Define Mini C MicroATX Mid Tower Case ($74.99 @ NCIX US)
Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA G2 550W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($79.49 @ SuperBiiz)
Total: $711.05
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-04-25 20:24 EDT-0400

a) the B250 has 1 CPU and 2 fan headers, the case has a front intake and a rear exhaust fan, so your set without additional hardware needed
b) 16GB ram, to cover all your gaming and Cad needs
c) 512MB cache 256GB SSD for OS and application you want to run faster with a TB drive for all your gaming/ design saving needs
d) chose the RX570, as for the price you other choice would be a 1060 3Gb, I see the RX 570 as a better choice.
c) as you probably noticed I went for a MicroATX case, to fit your motherboard and all your components to not look like PC box on the living room floor.

Barty1884 · Apr 25, 2017

The G4560 is essentially an i3, by another name. The HyperThreading will keep it more than capable in modern titles.

The Z chipsets are essentially OCing, SLI among a couple of other points (faster RAM support, RAID etc). To keep your options open for future upgrades, it's not a horrible upgrade - but unless you have a desire to OC in future, it's probably a waste. 2400MHz RAM is plenty fast, and I'd suggest you avoid SLI/CFx anyway.

I'd be more inclined to aim for a solid i5 opposed to a greater GPU right now - a GPU upgrade in future is nice & easy to one of the "latest and greatest". A CPU upgrade, you're generally limited to the used market (over time) and a quality CPU will last you through a few generations of GPU.

Fan headers are fairly standardized.... some will have more than the standard though.
mITX boards occassionally commonly have one, sometimes two (provided you're in a mITX case, that's about all you should need regardless).
mATX 2-3
ATX 4 or more.

As I mentioned, the 850 EVO is a great SSD, so are most of the m.2 SSD's - BUT I don't feel there's a 'real-world' noticeable/worthwhile difference.
M.2 can be SATA or PCIe - generally the PCIe versions are a little faster (noticeable), whereas a SATA M.2 brings nothing else to the table really, other than it being a little 'cleaner' (no cables for SATA or power).

Ultimately, a GPU is a GPU - some will be clocked a ltitle higher, some have fancier coolers etc, but they're working with the same chips (some binned higher than others). I would only recommend the full-sized GPUs from a cooler perspective (much the same with the reference cards - I;d avoid those from the cooling perspective, unless they're dramatically cheaper).

The PSU thread is a good read (just the main article and some of the newer posts). It's not going to get into the "nitty gritty" as to why this PSU or that PSU specifically for each model, but the high-level "tiers" will give you an idea. If you want specifics, there is JohnnyGuru among others for that.

As for the RAM, as I mentioned, for the most part - they're all the same. Timings will vary but, outside of synthetic benchmarks and a select few processes, those won't matter too much. For the most part, a 2133MHz or 2400MHz will perform just the same as any other 2133 or 2400MHz kit. Skylake and KabyLake do benefit from Dual-Channel setups moreso than previous generations, so either 2x4GB or 2x8GB would be preferred over a single 8GB or 16GB module. RGB is the 'in thing'. I don't get it in all honesty, just doesn't appeal to me. I watched a comparison on Youtube the other day....can't remember who's channel (would've been BitWit, ScienceStudio or LTT, I think?) who compared some RGB kits. The GEIL (budget RGB kits) are just RGB strips stuck on top. While I'd avoid the "old-school" green PCB modules from an aesthetic standpoint, anything better than that would be fine (as would the green PCB if you're not using a windowed case).

Moving on to your build, I wanted to comment a few things:
Originally you wanted something for the living room, but you yourself opted for a full-ATX board - which will mean a sizeable case in your living room.
While that's not a 'bad' thing, it's not for everyone.....so I've done two builds, one full ATX, one mATX (very few mITX boards available just yet).
While I like The Paladin's build, I don't feel the money is best spent that way. The PSU and Case, while quality - are a little more than I'd look to attribute to those components. The case is mostly aesthetics, which is an easy change in future - the PSU is great, but there are better (on a price/quality/wattage basis) out there.

Full-ATX:
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-7500 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($188.89 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: MSI B250 PC MATE ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($81.98 @ Newegg)
Memory: Patriot Viper Elite 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-2133 Memory ($99.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Sandisk SSD PLUS 240GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($71.04 @ Amazon)
Storage: Seagate BarraCuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($47.49 @ OutletPC)
Video Card: Gigabyte Radeon RX 580 4GB Gaming 4G Video Card ($188.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Case: Azza Cosmas ATX Mid Tower Case ($29.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: SeaSonic G 550W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($66.89 @ Newegg)
Total: $775.26
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-04-25 22:34 EDT-0400

A little over budget, but worth it IMO.
*The 'true' quad-core nature of the i5-7500 will last you a long time
*A better GPU (vs Paladin's build), comparable to the GTX 1060

mATX:
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-7500 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($188.89 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-B250M-DS3H Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($62.98 @ Newegg)
Memory: Patriot Viper Elite 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-2133 Memory ($99.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Sandisk SSD PLUS 240GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($71.04 @ Amazon)
Storage: Seagate BarraCuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($47.49 @ OutletPC)
Video Card: Gigabyte Radeon RX 580 4GB Gaming 4G Video Card ($188.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Case: Zalman T2 Plus MicroATX Mini Tower Case ($28.98 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: SeaSonic G 550W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($66.89 @ Newegg)
Total: $755.25
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-04-25 22:37 EDT-0400

Dwiggles · Apr 25, 2017

The Paladin :

my 2 cents worth;

1. the G4560 though a 2 core has hyper threading making it almost act like a 4 core cpu. (2 threads per core)

2. regarding the Z270 board, if I was you since your going with the G4560 I would use a B250, the cpu will gain nothing of a z based board, and the B250 permits at a later time to upgrade your cpu with a I7-7770 (not a K you cannot overclock on a B2xx series board) but since you cannot overclock the G4560 I think saving the cash on a B250 that will perform just as well as a Z270 board with the CPU you are going to use now, and though not overclock able, the 7770 (4.2 GHZ)is not a lot less powerful to an on overclocked 7770K.(4.5GHZ) and cheaper in the long run.

3. Header can be looked up on user manual of most boards looking at the diagram of motherboard they usually list the "FAN_xx" headers clearly. you can use 2 fan with a splitter on one header, but I never had a need to.

4. SSD there is a bit of a difference in speeds between an SATA model, and the M.2 (2240/60/80 etc.) models, usually plugs directly into the motherboard, having less floating on a sata cable is my view of this, and newer M/2 SSD have bigger cache ram than Sata Models it seems to be the trend to make the more responsive.

5, rule of thumb for PSU is 100w over needs of built system, I like to round it to 150w upwards. permits to upgrade video/etc without much worry about making psu stressed out.

6. choosing a case that did not look like a tower in the living room but could fit on a shelf and look more an audio visual product is the idea, so I suggest a quiet design without anything fancy (i.e. led etc.) giving away the box and its purpose too easily.

taking your 700-750$ challenge and based on the information above here is what I suggest.
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Pentium G4560 3.5GHz Dual-Core Processor ($59.48 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: MSI B250M GAMING PRO Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($78.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: Patriot Viper Elite 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-2133 Memory ($108.23 @ Newegg)
Storage: Plextor M7V 256GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive ($92.00 @ Newegg)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($48.88 @ OutletPC)
Video Card: Gigabyte Radeon RX 570 4GB Gaming 4G Video Card ($168.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Case: Fractal Design Define Mini C MicroATX Mid Tower Case ($74.99 @ NCIX US)
Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA G2 550W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($79.49 @ SuperBiiz)
Total: $711.05
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-04-25 20:24 EDT-0400

a) the B250 has 1 CPU and 2 fan headers, the case has a front intake and a rear exhaust fan, so your set without additional hardware needed
b) 16GB ram, to cover all your gaming and Cad needs
c) 512MB cache 256GB SSD for OS and application you want to run faster with a TB drive for all your gaming/ design saving needs
d) chose the RX570, as for the price you other choice would be a 1060 3Gb, I see the RX 570 as a better choice.
c) as you probably noticed I went for a MicroATX case, to fit your motherboard and all your components to not look like PC box on the living room floor.

Hey, Thanks for the reply!

I have spent a few minutes researching your build specs and have a couple of questions.

The MSI mobo only supports up to 2400 DDR4, isn't that slower than 3000+? is this a noticeable difference? I do like the idea of the M.2 port so long as it makes a noticeable difference in performance it is pretty cool, if not the case, then I do not mind the extra cord management.

EDIT: It looks like Barty1884 answered the above while I was writing this post, the below is still up for debate though

I have spent a few minutes looking into the Radeon 570 and everything that I have found thus far shows the GTX1060 to come out on top, so how is it that you see it as a "better choice"? It is only a 4GB compared to the 6GB of the GTX1060; and only 1.1 GHz while the GTX1060 is up in the 1.5 GHz range. I guess I must be missing something? I'm all ears.

Barty1884 · Apr 25, 2017

2400MHz is slower than 3000+MHz, absolutely. A "noticeable" difference is subjective. In some games, it may equate to a FPS or two/three, never anything 'game changing'. In synthetic benchmarks, it would matter a little more - but that's not your intent.

The tradeoff is cost. While RAM costs have increased recently, you still compare speed/performance/price - generally, the 'sweet spot' (all else being equal) is 2666MHz........but to run at those speeds, you need a Z board, which adds to cost. It's simply a overall cost vs performance thing.

M.2 (unless PCIe, which cost more) will not show much of a difference (if any) vs a SATA3 drive. PCIe has some gains but, in 'real world' performance, you'll never notice a difference (3 vs 4 seconds boot, 30 vs 40 seconds loading a game* etc)
*Rough examples to give you an idea.
(You'll see from my spec, I have a 950 PRO NVMe/PCIe and an 850 EVO was my old drive - I see no noticeable difference in day-to-day use. Sure, if I ran a stopwatch, there might be 0.5 seconds in boot time difference, but to most people, that's not actually noticeable).

You'll need to compare benchmarks for specific titles you want to play - I'd agree the 1060 is a better card than a 570 - by quite a ways, but there's not too much between a 1060 and a 580. The "extra" VRAM is unlikely to be utilized - check some useage benchmarks for your specific title though.
Much the same as a 1070 (8GB) and 1080TI (11GB) - unless you're pushing higher resolutions (like 4K), that level of VRAM isn't going to be utilized......at least not in the lifespan of current gen cards.

Also, a lot of those are paper specs; VRAM, Clock Speeds, TFLOPS etc are only part of the equation - and what actually matters is how they truly perform in the tasks/games you want.

The Paladin · Apr 26, 2017

The MSI mobo only supports up to 2400 DDR4, isn't that slower than 3000+? is this a noticeable difference? I do like the idea of the M.2 port so long as it makes a noticeable difference in performance it is pretty cool, if not the case, then I do not mind the extra cord management.

I refuse to spend more than combined (board and ram) 200$ for 3200 over 2133/2400 when it isn't going to be performant related.. See this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_Yt4vSZKVk

I have spent a few minutes looking into the Radeon 570 and everything that I have found thus far shows the GTX1060 to come out on top, so how is it that you see it as a "better choice"? It is only a 4GB compared to the 6GB of the GTX1060; and only 1.1 GHz while the GTX1060 is up in the 1.5 GHz range. I guess I must be missing something? I'm all ears.

I was comparing the RX570 to the 1060 3Gb not the 6GB (same price value) and based on https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjdqYJ2y2xo

Please note this is based on the series of games I do play in that video presentation (I did not do the video explaining the games I play shown in this video) Its is a better purchase... but if you rather have the 1060 6GB go for it. but your not going to make a 700$ budget built with it, unless you cut out say the SSD...

it a budget build it becomes a compromise.. here is the same build with 1060 6GB note closer to 800$ build now.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant
CPU: Intel Pentium G4560 3.5GHz Dual-Core Processor ($59.48 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: MSI B250M GAMING PRO Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($78.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: Patriot Viper Elite 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-2133 Memory ($108.23 @ Newegg)
Storage: Plextor M7V 256GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive ($92.00 @ Newegg)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($48.88 @ OutletPC)
Video Card: Zotac GeForce GTX 1060 6GB 6GB Mini Video Card ($237.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Case: Fractal Design Define Mini C MicroATX Mid Tower Case ($74.99 @ NCIX US)
Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA G2 550W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($79.49 @ SuperBiiz)
Total: $780.05

Dwiggles · Apr 26, 2017

The Paladin :

ok, so 2400 DDR4 should be fine for me. and either SATA or M.2 I can presume will not make a noticeable difference. Thank you guys for clearing that up.

But, ultimately; now I'm even more confused. I was looking at a few videos on the GPUs this morning, and came across THIS comparison between the Ryzen 5 1600 and the i5-6600k; This video stood out to me because these are the types of games I plan on playing. it looks like the Ryzen5 is seeing almost half of the usage of the i5? how does that make any sense? But digging a bit more, Im having a hard time seeing actual game use comparison between the new Ryzen7-1700 and the keby lake i5-7500...

I understand that this build is on a budget; that is exactly why it matters so much. I AM on a budget, and prefer to buy the right components the first time, rather than jumping in quickly with minimal/marginal understanding, only to turn around in a few months and think, for example:

"if I would have spent $75 more for THIS component over the one I got, it would have been so much better"
or
"I shouldn't have wasted the extra money on THIS component, when the other would have been just fine."

I understand some learning curve is to be expected after purchase and transitioning into PC gaming. But at this time I still feel like I am grasping at straws with component selections and hoping I dont grab a short one. This is the reason I joined the forum. To talk it thought, and help expedite the initial learning curve. I am making progress I feel. So thank you guys for keeping this discussion going thus far and answering questions and helping this rookie. I'm just trying to buy once, cry once and hopefully, by looking forward now, I wont have to look back and think "I wish I would have known..."

I also came across this video comparing the differences between the GTX 1060 variances. It sounds like the Smaller EVGA Superclocked is going to be the fastest of the bunch right out of the box, considering I dont have the know at this time (and presumably on this whole build) to dive into overclocking anything... but Barty1884 suggested against it? Im curious why? here is the video

I also stumbled across this Tech Deals review for an already made PC CYBERPOWERPC Gamer Xtreme VR GXiVR8020A2 Desktop Gaming PC thats right around $720 via Amazon Prime, which fits my budget:
i5-7400 processor
MSI B250 mobo
MSI Radeon RX 480 4GB GPU
8GB DDR4-2400
600w Thermaltake PSU

Here is the build as best as I can gather on pcpartpicker (Without the keyboard, wifi adapter, mouse, DVD drive, etc) but it seems like a pretty good deal unless I'm missing something? Thoughts?

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-7400 3.0GHz Quad-Core Processor ($177.89 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: MSI B250M BAZOOKA Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($76.89 @ OutletPC)
Memory: Crucial Ballistix Sport LT 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR4-2400 Memory ($59.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Toshiba 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($45.99 @ Newegg)
Video Card: MSI Radeon RX 480 4GB GAMING X Video Card ($259.99 @ NCIX US)
Case: Cooler Master MasterBox 5 (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case ($56.99 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: Thermaltake TR2 600W ATX Power Supply ($44.89 @ OutletPC)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 10 Home OEM 64-bit ($88.58 @ OutletPC)
Total: $811.21
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-04-26 12:31 EDT-0400

Barty1884 · Apr 26, 2017

In short, the Ryzen chip is seeing near 1/2 of the usage, as it's a 6core/12thread chip vs he quad core of the i5 - with only ~4 cores/threads being utilized, CPU utilization (overall) would be ~33% (4 of 12) if 4 cores were truly maxed out. Compared to the i5, with 4 cores available and being used. Those 4 cores on either chip aren't being fully utilized, which is why you're seeing <33% and <100% respectively.

With the Ryzen7 1700 being an 8core/12thread chip, it's much more common to see it compared to an i7-7700K (4/8) for any benchmarks (gaming or otherwise).

I really do like the fact you're asking questions/doing your homework before pulling the trigger - too many people take the first response & run off and buy it. Understanding why will go a long way - both now, and for future upgrades.

As for the "which 1060", I'll admit I didn't watch the full video - "Tech Deals" really grinds my gears for some reason & I can't watch him for long.
From what I gathered though, the EVGA SC 1060 "mini" was the 'fastest out of the box' and the added benefit of being substantially cheaper than the others - while also not requiring a supplement PCIe connector?

While I'm not knocking the smaller cards - they serve a purpose (smaller cases, no additional power etc), there can be a temp tradeoff. The SC1060 does have a higher baseclock (1.61GHz vs most others in the 1.5XGhz range).
I don't see any specific mention of this in the video linked....... But I did catch a couple of points on the screen where one GPU was @ 99% utilization with a temp of 57'C...... another (appeared to be a different card), 99% at 77'C. I'm pretty sure that dramatically warmer card would be the only "mini" variant.

That being said, 77'C isn't a 'bad' temp by any means, and shouldn't be a dealbreaker - I just wouldn't recommend it myself.

To that build from Cyberpower....
*Cyberpower do not have a good reputation - they'll build with whatever they have laying around/. Just because Tech Deals rig came with a Thermaltake 700W PSU (which, in & of itself isn't great to begin with) does not mean you won't end up with some fire hazard PSU powering your setup.
*No specifics on motherboard, RAM configuration
*Warranty etc is essentially useless (you['ll have to pay shipping to & from to actually utilize that "warranty")
*Don't put any weight behind the keyboard/mouse that comes with it - essentially, it's no better than a $20 generic set you can buy anywhere, it's just branded.

To the components specifically:
*The i5-7400 is a bit of a waste IMO (much liek the 6400 before it). At 3.0 to 3.5 GHz it's a poor value for money, when the i5-7500 is 3.4-3.8GHz with the 7500 being somewhere between 8-13% faster for ~6% more in cost.
*Unknown RAM, could be 1x8GB 2133MHz which is a poor option (as mentioned earlier).
*AC Wifi is good......if you need it - otherwise, money is better spent elsewhere.

In your build
the same comments for the 7400
$260 is waaay too much for a 4GB RX480. A 4GB RX580 can be had for $190 or $210 for a 6GB 1060. An RX580 (4GB) outperforms a 480 (4GB) and trades blows with a 1060 (3GB), but once you're comparing with a 6GB 1060, there's a clear winner.

I'd take a 4GB RX580 over a 3GB 1060, but not over a 6GB variant for ~$20 or so.

The PSU isn't great, and I would not pay $45 for it.

For a comparable price (excluding Wifi, KB/M) - this will outperform the Cyberpower (and your build for ~$100 less).
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-7500 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($188.89 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-B250M-DS3H Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($62.98 @ Newegg)
Memory: G.Skill NT Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR4-2400 Memory ($57.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Toshiba 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($45.99 @ Newegg)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 1060 6GB 6GB SC GAMING Video Card ($209.99 @ Newegg)
Case: Apevia X-QTIS-BK MicroATX Mid Tower Case ($38.98 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: Corsair CXM 450W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($29.99 @ Newegg)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 10 Home OEM 64-bit ($88.58 @ OutletPC)
Total: $723.39
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-04-26 13:51 EDT-0400

An SSD would be nice in there too though.

For a more direct (including KB/M and Wifi), take a look at this:
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-7500 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($188.89 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-B250M-DS3H Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($62.98 @ Newegg)
Memory: G.Skill NT Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR4-2400 Memory ($57.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Toshiba 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($45.99 @ Newegg)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 1060 6GB 6GB SC GAMING Video Card ($209.99 @ Newegg)
Case: Apevia X-QTIS-BK MicroATX Mid Tower Case ($38.98 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: Corsair CXM 450W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($29.99 @ Newegg)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 10 Home OEM 64-bit ($88.58 @ OutletPC)
Wireless Network Adapter: Asus PCE-AC55BT PCI-Express x1 802.11a/b/g/n/ac Wi-Fi Adapter ($31.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Keyboard: Zalman ZM-K380 Combo Wired Standard Keyboard w/Laser Mouse ($18.79 @ Amazon)
Total: $774.17
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-04-26 13:52 EDT-0400

Now, for the most part, those are better performin &/or better quality components than in the CyberPower - and they get bulk discounts on components/OS etc. How much of a markup do you think you'd be paying to CBP? I'd bet it's the best part of $300*.

*While they are a business, and you do get the convenience of it being built for you - you have no control in quality, their build work isn't always the best - and the warranty is pretty useless.

Dwiggles · Apr 26, 2017

Barty1884 :

Awesome response! Truely thankful! And thanks for saving me from the hype of the specs on the CyberPower build vs cost. I would prefer not to support a company that tends to do business that way.

I think I am getting a little closer, I built this up with just a few minor changes from what you posted and wanted to see your thoughts.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-7500 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($188.89 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-B250M-DS3H Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($62.98 @ Newegg)
Memory: G.Skill NT Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR4-2400 Memory ($57.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Sandisk SSD PLUS 240GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($71.04 @ Amazon)
Storage: Toshiba 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($45.99 @ Newegg)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 1060 6GB 6GB SC GAMING Video Card ($209.99 @ Newegg)
Case: Corsair 100R ATX Mid Tower Case ($39.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: Corsair CXM 450W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($29.99 @ Newegg)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 10 Home OEM 64-bit ($88.58 @ OutletPC)
Total: $795.44
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-04-26 15:31 EDT-0400

I could add the 1TB HDD at a later date, considering its only $46, but for some reason feel more comfortable with it all there from the start. I haven't built a PC in a long long time, I'm not worried about assembly of the box so much as the process after the first time I flip on the power switch. I'm also a little concerned about sound... while I would like HDMI to carry the audio and it will be amplified and filtered though an equilizer, what about sound quality with headphones? is this something I need to look into deeper, or is the sound quality these days pretty good on a mobo? last time I built a PC, I needed a separate sound card.

Barty1884 · Apr 26, 2017

From turning on the system:
*Enter BIOS, configure date/time etc. Beyond that, on a new board, everything should be set to what you need anyway.
*Boot from your install media - that W10 will come with a disk, but you can create your own bootable USB here: https://www.microsoft.com/en-ca/software-download/windows10 The disk will be dated, whereas creating your own USB will get the latest updates etc from the outset.
*Attach the USB and use the "boot override" feature to select booting from the USB the first time - then follow the prompts & select to install to your SSD (you could leave your HDD disconnected initially, to avoid accidentally installing to the wrong drive).
*Enter the license key when prompted (will come with your copy of Windows)
*Let it install and follow prompts.
*Once inside Windows, allow Windows to update anything necessary (settings>Windows update). It'll probably install most of your chipset drivers and attempt to install a graphics driver etc. You should still head to hte Mobo vendors site/support page and download all your drivers there...... then to nVidia for the 1060 drivers.

As for Malware/Viruses...... Malwarebytes is good to have on hand for the occassional scan. There are plenty reputable, free antivirus options...... For me personally, I don't bother with them. I like to think I'm smart enough online to avoid anything, but I also don't care if I have to reinstall my OS every once in a while. There's Avira, AVG, Avast among many others. I'd avoid Norton and McAfee though - they're a little resource-heavy, which isn't necessary.

Just noticed your edit re: sound quality. While I'm not an audiophile by any means, sound quality onboard has come a long, long way from the days of a dedicated sound card being a 'must have'.

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